Clyde's Comeback!

Sorry to hear things didn't go as planned. I heard the heat was brutal and I'm sure that played a major role.

If you're serious about CIM, I'd HIGHLY recommend that race. Fantastic course, great weather, just really really good event. It's my favorite of the 4 I've done, for whatever that's worth.

Like you said, back to the drawing board. I'm certain you've got a low 2:20 in you. Good luck!

Sorry, man. Somedays, thing just don't click, and hot weather sure wouldn't help. Don't give up, you'll bounce back better than ever.

Bummer. Come run Indy on Nov. 6.

Bummer - Come run the Grand Canyon. It is much more fulfilling than some silly marathon. After that, go run CIM.

You are such a strong runner, just chalk it up to a bad day and move on to more success. As we were talking, maybe it is time for a change of scenery and for a different race to get the mojo back.

Thanks for the companionship and hospitality this weekend, you guys are great!

Great job Clyde. You're a great runner no doubt about that. Many a time I think we just need to find joy in the gift I guess. Keep up the good work and keep putting one foot in front of the other and you'll do great!! We'll see ya around.

Way to hang in there Clyde and don't be to hard on yourself, it was fun to see you come in today. Your still the man!!!

Wow, really sorry about that. I have been watching your impressive training for the last couple of months and know that you really wanted to do well. Let me say however, Thanks for the report. For a relative beginner like me it is nice to see a race report where someone like you shows that you are actually human, it gives me hope. I've read so many reports from all of you top notch runners where you talk about running 5:20, 5:15. 5:23… and then "crash" at the end and can only manage a 6:00 pace for the last 2 miles :).

The other eye opener this week was hearing about Ryan Hall dropping out of Chicago, you'd think someone who's only job is to eat, sleep, run and sign up for 2 marathons per year would be able to meet his goals at any expense. But the marathon is quite the animal, I guess that's where all the appeal comes from.

I'm sure you will be able to bounce back quickly and meet your goals soon, nice solid 20 mile training run today.

Condolences, but you still kicked my trash without trying.

Clyde, Its good Mik'l didnt let you drop out! I have had a few experiences like yours and have learned to make myself a better runner from it. It was nice for you to help Amber, see you were of help if not yourself then others. You set a great example for all of us. Last year Dave had a similar race and look how he finished today! Even in this freakin heat you guys seem to enjoy so much. lol Way to finish a rough race with your chin up. Get next time!

Don't look how I finished today - that may be one of the worst examples of all time.

Clyde... all I can say is whatever. Some memories are better than others I guess.

Clyde-I think we all didn't nail our run today. I feel like its '08 marathon all over again but this time Im not as upset over it. Hearing that SO MANY people struggled today helped me realize today there were factors that were just totally out of our control (the heat). I saw your comment on dave's about not wanting to "race" marathons anymore and thats exactly what I told my husband too right after. He said he wished he had a tape recorder so I could hear how many times I have said that! Give it time and we will forget that and want revenge on that course again. Next year will be good! But I am hanging up my racing shoes for the winter and give myself a little break.

I'm hanging up my race shoes for awhile too, but right now (11:15 on a Saturday night and about 2 hours past my bed time) I am going to go for a jog. Because when you can't sleep and it seems like the meaning of one of the biggest parts of your life just lost meaning YOU GO FOR A RUN - "runnin' on, I'm runnin' on empty, runnin' on"

Sorry things did not go as planned. I realize how much time and effort you put in your running. We train for 6 months and get one day to make it happen. Not like other sports where you play every weekend. I have seen what your capable of on training runs. Just hang in there man. You will have better races and worse races. It's what keeps us coming back for more.

Like I told Dave sometimes the bad ones given time are actually your best it's all in how you look at it. I know one thing for sure that heat was not in your guys favor on yesterday. Way to hang in there Clyde..

Thanks everyone. I'm really blessed to have good friends.

Hey Clyde, sorry to hear you had a rough day. I'm not sure why so many of us struggled. I think what is even more frustrating is the fact we've all done so many training runs faster and felt better than we did in the race.

Your still one talented, hard-working dude, and like you said we are lucky to have so many good friends in our little running community.

Nothing kills more than heat. I think it's the #1 worst out of potentially adverse condition. Wind, rain, snow, or hills don't touch heat. It's bummer because you can't do much about it, and it affects some people more than others.

I think running in the heat and racing in it are two different things! Sorry about how the race turned out, but way to finish it and help others out along the way.

Clyde, I am not sure I can add anything that others here or on Dave's entry could tell you or anyone else that braved the heat Saturday but congrats for sticking it out and there will always be another race. I just hope one of these days soon there is good weather at STG for all of you...

What a day. No words of wisdom for you. Lets just get back up and go after the next one even harder.

Thanks for sharing your experience. When I think of the fastest guys on the blog, your name always comes to mind. Keep on keeping on.

Clyde - to put things in perspective, 5 years ago you ran 2:58 in near-perfect weather (maybe a bit too rainy, but not too bad), without stopping to find somebody with a cell phone and call your wife in the middle to unsuccessfully negotiate a DNF pickup, and with the determination to squeeze every single second out of your body in the last three miles. Today you ran 8 minutes faster in hot weather in spite of the adventures, and trying to get to the finish afterwards with no attempt to race. So things must not be that bad.

Yeah I would have been thrilled with a 2:50 back in 2005. However I was running less than 40 mpw back then and had a lot less invested.

After having a few days to think and re think and re think through this race here is my official analysis:

I prepared myself mentally for wind. I prepared myself for rain. I was ready to deal with them combined. I was ready to battle and fight for position with the pack. And more than ever I was ready to really hammer the second half. I wanted to go "Paul" standard and hit like a 1:12 first half and then something crazy like a 1:07- 1:08 second.

But here was what I wasn't ready for. The heat. I know this sounds funny coming from someone who lives in it. But on this day it was SNEAKY. I mean it was warm at the start but never did I see a red flag. Never did I say: Hey maybe this warm weather needs to be given a second thought and we should slow our pace down big time. I just didn't respect it at all. I thought that our training runs in July were well enough to power through a warm morning in October. But it was a deadly cocktail. It just slowly cooked me. We ran fairly fast up until Veyo and by then it was already too late. That hill and the heat worked me like a dog. It was harder this time than ever before. Then from the top of Veyo to the half it was a grim reminder of just how trashed I already was. Mentally I wish someone would have said to me. "Just relax and go with Pepi". He was behind me at the half and then started to increase the pace. But I thought we were already out of it and didn't even bother trying to go with him. He finished 2nd... time wasn't smokin' fast but a 2:26 was a very smart race for the day.

So in the end I found out I was much more pron to break down in the heat than I though. I also found out just how weak mentally I've become. I'm hoping to resolve the issues as I work through some races in the future. I know it won't all magically happen at once and plan to run enough races in the next year to work the kinks out.

I'm going to start with running a marathon around December. If it's aided (CIM or Tucson) then my plan is to simply break 2:35ish and work on running a "complete race". If it's a flat course then I just want to go try and break 2:40 working on the same principles. I did this at UV this year but was running "just as a workout". I want to go run a race to RACE but not die.

Well said. These open and honest assessments of peoples' races have to be one of the best tools for getting better. The thought that goes into these races is sometimes as (if not more) important than the running itself. Thanks for sharing.

It's hard to change a race plan when in the "heat" of battle. Sounds like the heat snuck up on a lot of people.

I've heard nothing but bad things about Tucson, and nothing but good things about CIM. CIM is technically downhill, but less total drop as Boston, and with quite a few rollers. Most people think of it as being as fast as a flat course.

Clyde - I see your further progression past your 2:25 PR in increasing 5 K speed. You need to figure out why you cannot run a 4:15 mile right now and fix whatever is causing it. Looking at your form, it does not look like you have bad biomecanics. Maybe not a Sebastian Coe perfection, but good enough for a sub-15:00 5 K on the track at sea level. The problem is somewhere in the brain, I think. You've never trained at those speeds for anything longer than a quarter since your return to running and are afraid to go into the zone.

So step 1 - learn to do 6x400 in 70 with full rest.

Step 2 - do it with less rest.

Step 3 - 4x600 in 1:45 full rest, 3a controlled rest.

Step 4 - 4x800 in 2:20 each full rest, then cut it down to 400 meter jog, even 200 meter jog.

Step 5 - 3x1200 in 3:36

Step 6 - 2x1600 in 4:48

Step 7 2x2000 in 6:00

Step 8 3x2000 in 6:00

At this point race a 5 K and see if you can be close to 15:00

Then do all tempo runs at 5:20 pace and break 1:10 in the half on an honest course, then 5:15 pace for tempos, run 1:08 on an honest course.

Then you will crack 2:20 in St. George, and will have the confidence to start planning for OTQ.

Sasha kind of lost me in the whole interval progressive thing, but I do agree that a person needs to have 1:08-flat speed for a non-aided half marathon in order to crack 2:20 at SGM. I don't bother much with 5Ks, but I do take half marathons pretty seriously as a performance benchmark. I was not surprised at all when I saw that Aaron Metler won, based on his UVM Half race. The half marathon is a pretty darn good indicator for marathon performance. Aside from running an actual marathon, of course.

First off I know my limits and I'm not going to hit a OTQ unless then make it like it was in 2007. Hitting a OTQ isn't even one of my running goals. Further more I knew I wouldn't break 2:20 this year but thought with a good race I could for for it and if I came up short at a 2:22ish then still happy days and a PR. I really do want to work on my half marathon speed and in doing so I need to run more of them. I think I'll always struggle running a great STG because the first half for me is just hard. I can't see myself running it any faster than 1:12... it just chews me up. But I will work on that speed and half marathon progress.

All of us down here knew Arron would win unless something crazy happened. To be honest if the heat wasn't as bad as it was he was ready for a 2:17-2:19. Since his UV half he's been logging 90+ mile weeks all summer and was really ready to bust a good one.

Yeah, Aaron impressed at UVM. He's a young guy, so should only get better too.

1:12 is a good setup for sub-2:20. It's a pretty fast pace for the first half. A lot of winners have gone through slower than that. I think the key for the first half is to stay patient and run what feels like a stupidly slow pace. I remember being with Joe Wilson at the half in 2005. We went through in 1:13:30. He went on to run a little over 2:22, I think, and won. I just managed to hang on, but that was my first time on the course. Mike Kirk did something really similar in 2004 when he won. Watching those guys made me believe that a rather obscene, 4-to-5-minute negative split is the way to run that course. So I ran negative by a bit under 5 minutes in 2007, but the unfortunate thing is that Nick Schuetze ran well over 5 minutes negative. Nick must have been about 1:11:00, and then did a 1:05:40-ish. The point is, 1:12:00 isn't a whole lot slower than what the course record-holder did.

Yeah 1:12 is fast... That's why it would be my max limit on that course and being able to run a good second half.

I think next spring and summer I'll go up to the start a few times and run a all out half. Just push the crap out of it and then see what I can hit. Might make it easier for me to relax on race day and run around a 1:12-1:13 then still be able to turn it up on the second.

But a 3-4 min negative would be great... I can't imagine a 5+...

Interesting analysis of the heat. Coming from YOU (fast and someone who lives in St George) it is nice to hear that the rest of us were not being wimpy. I think the mental thing was also affected by the heat.

Best of luck to you in December.

I believe your making the right decision to run a marathon in December to determine where your at fitness wise. It's hard to determine that in a race where the weather conditions cause a higher degree for success, and to judge what your real ability or performance would be.

Also really taking it easy the second half of STG gives you an advantage to recover quick to be ready in December for a race.

Hey by December I might be able to run a 15 minute mile.