Relentless

Squaw Peak 50 Mile Trail Run

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Location:

Dogtown,Ut,

Member Since:

Jan 02, 2006

Gender:

Male

Goal Type:

Other

Running Accomplishments:

PRs: 2:26:29 marathon @ St.George '14; 1:09:55 1/2 mar. '08; 31:00 10k '07

Short-Term Running Goals:

Love running now.

Long-Term Running Goals:

Love running forever!

Personal:

My perfect day would include a run through the desert, time with my wife and girls, tasty homemade meals, and a nice nap in the middle.

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Miles:This week: 0.00 Month: 0.00 Year: 0.00
Adios Lifetime Miles: 512.25
Rocket 2 Lifetime Miles: 109.00
Kinvara Grey Lifetime Miles: 222.00
Vazee Pace Lifetime Miles: 437.75
Pace Blue Lifetime Miles: 231.75
Boston Lifetime Miles: 520.25
Peg Green Lifetime Miles: 544.00
Speedgoat Lifetime Miles: 325.00
Peg Purple Lifetime Miles: 509.50
Ravenna Lifetime Miles: 525.50
Barefoot '18 Lifetime Miles: 6.75
Levitate Lifetime Miles: 419.50
Peg NOP Lifetime Miles: 380.00
Peg Blue34 Lifetime Miles: 408.25
Solar Glide Lifetime Miles: 210.00
Levitate Black Lifetime Miles: 83.75
Race: Squaw Peak 50 Mile Trail Run (51.4 Miles) 08:17:14, Place overall: 3
Total Distance
51.40

Squaw Peak 50 Mile Trail Run (I've posted my Garmin total for the race - since I am sure the race isn't a perfect 50 and I missed 2 turns and ran extra - dang rookie).

Well the best summary is that my endurance, strength, and overall speed (or the marathoning type) was overcome by my inexperience today! The top three (us who eventually became the top 3) moved easy away from everyone after the first aide station and we went to the dirt. I stayed back in third to get a feel for it all. Then the 2nd guy moved over and let me through, and I slowly worked my way toward the leader (he was an absolute mt. goat - he could hike faster than I could run). On the long climb (climb #2) I stayed just behind him and he finally joked to "quit stalking me and get up here." So took the lead and ran very strong up the climb building a couple minute lead; only to miss a turn and lose it all. Then I got it back and lost it again because my fingers were frozen and I couldn't work the zipper on my shorts or the baggy to get my sandwich out. But then I got it back and nailed the drop back into Hobble with some sick 6 minutes (maybe even a couple high 5'ers), building a 6+ minute lead. I really didn't care to win, but it was kind of fun thinking I might - but also very stressful since I had already screwed up. Anyway, Scott, the eventual winner, caught back up to me around mile 34, as I missed another dang set of flagging and ran up the wrong trail for another couple hundred yards, and chased me up climb #4 and took the lead just before the windy pass beast. Climbing Windy Pass was the most hideous thing that I have ever done in running; it was straight up the monstrous mountain with no trail, no switchbacks, no hope of it ever ending! Here he put first three minutes on me; then another; and yet more when I started falling all over in the snow (I about fell off the flipping mountain numerous times - except I wasn't calling it flipping). At the top, the aide station told me he was six minutes up; I lost hope of catching him, and the third guy got me, said an encouraging word and went on by. The struggles only began - I started falling numerous times (I truthfully fell at least 10 times coming down the mountain). I was so tired I couldn't get my legs up at all and hit every rock, root, and toe grabber there was. Finally I got done with that thing and finished the last few down the canyon back to the park. The whole time hoping no one was near, since I couldn't hold them off. Turns out the fourth guy came in nearly 30 minutes back so no worries. And the first two who I thought were LONG gone were only 10 and 8'ish minutes up; not as bad as I thought. (Landreth 889.65)

My thoughts: well that is done with and I don't ever have to do it again. Now to rest; for who knows how long!

Coming back to add a little more:  I think that I could probably cut at least the 17 minutes to go break into the 7's pretty easily if I ever did this again (if the weather/conditions was as perfect as it was this time).  Things I would work on: first, keep with the use it while you got it idea.  Some might not think this is good, but I guarantee you are going to be hammered on the last 1/5 of this run, so might as well go decent while you can.  So for me that would mean daring to go out a little more.  I was very timid at the first.  Not that I would want to run 5:00's down the trail, but I could have put myself in a better position and gone a little better on climb #1.  Secondly, it would be good to have my support meet me at the bottom of Hobble and just give a bottle on the go and meet at the top with replenished full bottles instead of nothing clear up to aide 6 and stopping there for a few minutes.  Of course a pacer would always be good and from the bottom of Hobble up to maybe aide 7 or 8 would be a good help.  Third, on the big hill don't get so down and just know that it too will pass and try to run a couple more of the less steep sections as you top out.  Finally, I think the general experience would lead to a lot and keep the confidence up. 

Anyway a good experience, especially the training for it aspect; I saw and did a lot of neat stuff that I probably would have never have done without this race.  I will probably be back some day.

Landreth Miles: 51.40
Comments
From paul on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 17:57:09 from 75.162.193.113

Awesome ultra debut!! Very fun read.

From Ruthio on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 18:06:59 from 71.222.192.211

You are awesome. Way to go out and nail that sucker! Congrats on placing so well and running for first place for most of it! You make it seem so easy. Good on ya!

From Holt on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 18:10:18 from 71.213.8.108

Thanks Ruthie - but that _ WAS NOT EASY!

You back at home and ready to run next week? Let me know.

From allie on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 18:10:53 from 208.110.151.113

congrats on a great finish. what a tough race. great job!

From josse on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 18:21:22 from 70.192.213.235

Great job, but are you really just going to do one? These things are addicting I hear. That is why I won't do one.

From JamesH on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 18:25:33 from 75.169.137.64

Dave, your an animal!!! Im super proud of you. I did actually think during the race "dont think this is bad, Daves probably still got 30 miles to go at the same speed your going." Good job.

From Cody on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 18:41:11 from 71.213.25.119

Awesome debut! Very impressive as that is one tough race. You are my hero.

From Nevels on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 18:45:32 from 75.143.88.18

Solid ultra debut. Be careful, or you'll find yourself thinking "Hhmmm...I wonder what would have happened if I had tried [insert idea here]; I think I'll try another to find out. I mean, it wasn't THAT bad..."

not that it's ever happened to me...

From Maurine/Tarzan on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 19:07:59 from 63.255.172.2

Wow - great ultra debut. That is a killer race and I have only run part of the course. I am just in awe of what you accomplished today. You should be very proud of yourself.

From Jon on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 19:10:03 from 75.169.153.187

Wow, wow, wow. Awesome race, Dave- 3rd place in a race like that is amazing, especially since it was your debut.

I bet by tomorrow you'll be filling out your registration for next year...

From Vis on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 20:12:30 from 208.88.9.50

You don't have to do it again, but the animal will come creeping out. You'll want to do it again, especially if there's an inkling of a thought that you could've taken those two. Awesome job.

From Ruthio on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 21:15:35 from 71.222.192.211

Ha ha, I don't doubt it sucked!

And yep, next week I'm allowed to get training again. When do you guys meet?

From Robert on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 21:37:55 from 71.32.163.35

You've inspired this bulldog! Great job!

From Dustin on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 21:42:18 from 209.33.192.10

Great job man. I'm ready to hear all the stories. Hope you rewarded yourself with a big dinner and some much needed rest.

From crockett on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 22:43:17 from 71.36.81.188

Wow, way to go. Very impressive. I finished almost four hours after you. Your speed boggles my mind.

From daceg on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 22:46:13 from 74.211.17.44

Nicely done!

From Kory on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 23:13:58 from 24.116.159.75

Ultra-man! Very nice and just an awesome race. May God bless your recovery. Your going to achieve so much in running this is just the start.

Great start for your first one.

From Dustin on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 23:26:28 from 209.33.192.10

Just my opinion but I think once Dave gets the full race report finished it should get put up on the Hot Discussions board for awhile. I'm also interested to hear how Steve Hooper

From Holt on Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 23:52:57 from 71.213.8.108

Thanks everyone. It's fun to hear your support and read your comments, but NO I will not be doing that again...

for awhile!

Crazy enough, I can't sleep. Not that it is way late right now (about 10:00), but I usually go to bed around 9:00 and this morning I was up at 3:30. Just restless I guess.

From Mike Warren on Sun, Jun 07, 2009 at 00:57:52 from 208.117.124.133

Dave, you just always amaze me. I mean really, you just have an Iron will. Get feeling better and I look forward to running with you at the club runs.

From Holts boy(Austin on Sun, Jun 07, 2009 at 01:15:36 from 71.219.126.248

Great race coach! So i have some things to say. . . Due to the lack of money there of in the family and quite frankly my self, im being permanantly sent to orderville for the rest of the summer. However, i will still be doing RAGNAR and if we get a team DESNEWS. So it would make my life a whole lot easier if you got the XC blog going again, or by emaling me the work outs at asmittixc@gmail.com Feel free to call me or what ever at 773-5650.

PS: i dont get service in Orderville, so email works the best.

From Bill Mandler on Sun, Jun 07, 2009 at 08:45:04 from 24.119.13.42

Great Job Dave....Kory and I were talking yesterday in our easy miles hoping you had better weather than we did. We were worried about snow for you. To finish that hard of a run in just over 8 hours is INCREDIBLE!!!

You continue to just AMAZE all of us!!!

From crockett on Sun, Jun 07, 2009 at 09:44:20 from 72.62.205.35

Dave, sleeplessness is typical after ultras. I didn't get to sleep until about 1 a.m. It typical for me to be unable to sleep for hours after a 100-miler even though I've skipped an entire night of sleep.

Well done on your on-the-job training learning to float down the technical trails. It is great fun.

From Dallen on Sun, Jun 07, 2009 at 10:46:04 from 76.192.187.131

Gratz. I was looking forward to this report for a while.

From scotthughes on Sun, Jun 07, 2009 at 17:46:44 from 209.33.211.3

Dave, Congrats on a great race! This is an amazing accomplishment. Good luck with the recovery! But since you are superman you probably will be out hitting the pavement very soon......take some time to renew yourself.

From Steve Hooper on Sun, Jun 07, 2009 at 23:11:36 from 209.33.254.93

Dave,

I was so inspired watching you at the race yesterday! You did so awesome!

Kendra

From Superfly on Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 09:30:32 from 74.211.95.149

Your so freaking awesome man. So glad you did great. I knew you would. Keep the ball rolling and go win STG for the circle this year. Sorry to skip out on you and Steve... lots going on with us. Anyways good job man.

From jtshad on Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 10:12:56 from 204.134.132.225

Great run (if you can call it that!) and awesome 3rd place finish. Sounds like quite an experience.

From c h a d on Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 11:46:44 from 67.42.252.25

Congratulations on an amazing debut Ultra, Dave. I hope it's not the last for you because obviously you've got the skills to perform very well in the dirt.

From cgbooth23 on Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 12:38:39 from 67.136.44.51

impressive race, way to keep Jaime moving up front, I bet you put some fear into him, not knowing what you were capable of, he is a cool guy I played soccer with him when he lived in the Ogden area!

From Sierra :) on Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 16:42:52 from 209.33.250.234

Nice race coach! When I heard you were going up for a race I didn't expect this! That is insane!!!! Way to be!!!!

From Little Bad Legs on Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 13:00:30 from 24.216.235.183

Wow! Sounds like....fun? It's an experience anyway, right? Great job and like Clyde said, put this training in the bank and win SG this October! Oh yeah, and enjoy some much needed rest/time off!

From Jon on Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 18:57:08 from 75.169.140.55

By the way, Scott had some good things to say about you-

http://teamfasteddy-fasted.blogspot.com/2009/06/squaw-peak-50-1st-805.html

From Predog on Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 12:16:43 from 75.165.246.29

Holt, you are nuts. I would never do one of those things. But you are my hero. You know that whole running down an antelope thing on the discussion board? Well, after that I think you could do it...heck you could probably get a whole herd.

From Holt on Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 13:32:54 from 75.169.89.6

Thanks for the comments guys. It is fun to read your support. Like usual I finished thinking never again - but... !

From Adam RW on Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 22:26:58 from 98.202.223.65

Dave, So when are you doing the Wasatch 100? It has been great to watch your commitment to this day in your training and see it pay off. It is not only amazing what you accomplished your first time out at something like this but how you've bounced back. I can't believe your mileage already less than a week out. I look forward to more in the future.

From Fritz on Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 23:50:10 from 97.117.43.159

I can hardly fathom running a 50 miler let alone placing 3rd and doing it 5 days after running 26. Amazing!

From Burt on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 13:09:36 from 68.76.197.194

If I were ever to do a 50 miler, I wouldn't be doing it to see how fast I could. In fact, I would see what the time limit was and then figure out what's the slowest I could go and still make it within that limit. Great job!

From Sasha Pachev on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 18:12:29 from 64.81.245.109

You probably would have won a normal 50 mile race on the road against the same company. Bushwhacking and running are two different events.

From crockett on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 19:16:40 from 71.36.74.245

Sasha, with all due respect, the SP50 is running, not "bushwhacking." What is "normal"? I believe humanity has run for many more years on dirt and trails than they have on ovals and pavement. It is all running. To each his own.

What is "normal" tennis? Grass surface?

From Sasha Pachev on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 19:23:22 from 64.81.245.109

Normal = do not have to worry about tripping on a rock, do not have to worry about missed turns, do not have to tread through the snow, etc. When you running speed is limited by fitness rather than other factors. When other factors are present, it is not a running race, it is an adventure race. Dave is a better runner than an adventure racer.

From The Howling Commando on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 19:27:35 from 72.224.24.41

Man you get 5,000 commando points for this one! Phew! You are absolutely amazing bud! Your runners are lucky to have such an inspiring and dedicated coach.

From crockett on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 19:27:48 from 71.36.74.245

Like I say, to each his own. To me "normal" running is not the definition you give. It doesn't mean that one is better or more elite than the other. It is a matter of preference. But please do not imply that our ultrarunning sport is not "running."

From Sasha Pachev on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 19:40:36 from 64.81.245.109

Hmm... Steeplechase is not running. It is a steeplechase. It is a different event. So is running with a backpack, running with a vest, running on a treadmill, snowshoeing, cross-country skiing, and orienteering. There is some cross-over with running, but those are different events that require different skills. Nobody is implying that those events are somehow less than Olympic running, and some of those are even in the Olympics.

From Jon on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 19:41:56 from 75.169.156.52

Davy, I think it's safe to say Sasha won't be doing a trail race anytime soon. Which is fine. It just means we can enjoy the wonderful, beautiful, untamed, peaceful trails more to ourselves. No quarter splits, no honking cars, just the occasional wild animal.

From Fritz on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 19:44:32 from 65.116.116.6

Running on concrete is far from what our bodies are designed to do and what makes it even less normal is that many times we are bussed up a canyon just so we can run downhill for an entire race. I personally like to mix it up.

From crockett on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 19:56:54 from 71.36.74.245

I know what running is, and don't need a exclusive definition for it. Running is independent of surface. I know Sasha enjoys and is a great advocate of what he referred to as "Olympic running." That is great. For me, those type of running events are just a small part of my running experience. I ran the UVM Saturday as some training for the type of running I personally value more and personally to me is much more challenging running -- running a 100-mile mountain race. I don't consider it an adventure race. I consider it a trail race. And yes, it is running.

From Sasha Pachev on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 20:27:59 from 64.81.245.109

In any case, if Dave brings his what I called bushwhacking skills for lack of a better word to a competitive level he will win against the same company. Those can be improved greatly with practice. I remember in 1997 I ran frequently up to the Y and back. After a while I learned how to run down that trail fast and got from the bottom of the Y to 9th East in 15 minutes. Less than half way through the Y trail decent I was running normally at top effort without slowing down much on the turns. In 2006 I went on that trail again with two guys, do not think either of them could break 19:00 in a 5 K. Going up I they could not run all the way, I ended up waiting for them for some time at the top. On the way down they both left me in the dust, it took me about half a mile at 5:20 pace to catch up once we got to a normally runnable trail while they were jogging. However, around the same time my downhill times as well as downhill recovery on pavement were much better than 1997 in every race. So running down a rocky windy trail is by far not the same as running down a paved road, or even a straight smooth trail.

From crockett on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 20:53:32 from 71.36.74.245

Instead of calling it "bushwhacking skills" call it "trail running skills." Yes, I have no doubt that Dave has already demonstrated that he can be among the elite of the ultrarunning sport if he desired to do so. He did amazing. But the best didn't run this year. In fact during the race, one of the best in the world, was filling water bottles at aid station #7. Yes, downhill running on technical trails is indeed a learned skill. It takes much practice and conditioning that you can't get by running on flat roads. If Dave further developed that skill, he would be even more amazing.

From Sasha Pachev on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 21:18:32 from 192.168.1.1

The best are never there in full company at any given time. None of the Utah marathons this year had even the best in the state, much less in the country, and we are not going to talk about the world.

From Kelli on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 21:26:31 from 71.219.76.64

Awesome race. I am very impressed with trail running skills. I personally think it is 100% harder, all of that navigating and running UP huge mountains. I am so impressed with you Ultra Trail runners, it take a very hard core runner to even attempt it!

Well DONE!

From The Howling Commando on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 21:30:46 from 72.224.24.41

Not to get too involved but the way I always see it it doesn't matter if the fastest didn't show up on such and such a day. The point is that Holt did. Just like all the marathoners that just raced showed up and toed the line. You can't surmise one wouldn't have done as well had others been there because the thing is they weren't. That's what I love about running. It's you against the clock and whomever has the guts to show up.

I am in awe at Holt's accomplishment as it's a lifelong dream simply to FINISH one of these! To me running is running is running. To say that ultra running isn't running is to say that those of us that jog aren't runners. It's just like road cycling vs. mountain bike cycling. Each has its distinct skills and necessary components but when it boils down its all the same sport. Such is true with running.

From crockett on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 21:34:29 from 71.36.74.245

Ah, but the difference is that often the best do show up for ultras both in Utah and in Colorado. That is where the mountains are, afterall. We've had some of the best in three races in Utah, Wasatch 100, Moab Redhot 50K and Squaw Peak 50. They aren't always there at the same time. And one can argue, that the best mountain ultrarunners in the world are the runners I am referring to.

From The Howling Commando on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 21:48:48 from 72.224.24.41

From what I've read there are not as many ultra races as there are conventional marathons and road races. Hence yes I would suspect there'd be a much higher percentage of "elites" showing up at the ultras then the regular marathons. Both have their pros and cons, and ultras are by far more grueling and potentially more hazardous on the body. I guess the same goes for mt. biking vs. road cycling. Perhaps that's why the mountain bikers have so much disdain for the flashy showboaty road cyclist? They are two completely different animals just like the road runner vs. trail/ultra runner are.

From Kelli on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 22:02:34 from 71.219.76.64

But my question is WHY does there have to be any disdain? Both deserve respect, both are hard, both take a special kind of training and a person who wants to conquer the beast (whether that beast is 26.2 miles, a flippin' mountain, or 100 miles)?

It seems like we are comparing apples to oranges. BUT in the end, they are both fruits!

From The Howling Commando on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 22:04:29 from 72.224.24.41

Exactly!!!

Wait are you calling all of us runner fruity?! lol

From Kelli on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 22:05:30 from 71.219.76.64

Well, I usually call you all NUTS, but fruity works!!!!

From Dallen on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 22:25:38 from 76.192.187.131

Sasha- if you are going to exclude things like a steeplechase and trail running from the definition of "running" then you probably ought to exclude downhill races like the SGM from the category also. It also requires a different skillset. Take the average 2:30 guy from the flat midwest and make him run St George and he is going to get beat by 2:40 guys from Utah.

Is the 100 meters "running"? 200? 400? 800? 1500? Where is the line? I'm sure Holt could beat the average olympic miler at Squaw Peak.

We all like to think that our own little niche of running is the truest form.

It's all "running", we just pick the part that we enjoy.

From crockett on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 22:28:20 from 71.36.74.245

Yes an interesting comparison to this discussion is cycling. Road vs. Mountain. (Both cycling in my book). It was interesting last summer to see Lance Armstrong try his hand at racing on a mountain bike in the tough Leadville 100 without much training. He placed second which is amazing but not surprising for a world class athlete. It was still cycling, just a different type of event.

From Burt on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 22:28:28 from 98.167.151.26

Ah, so this is why there's 27 messages in my inbox. What are we talking about here? Fruits? Nuts? Some kind of cereal?

It seems we've got some passionate people on here. Not knowing too much about ultra marathoning I would probably side with Sasha's definition. (Well, adventure running usually involves other activities like, rowing or kayaking, rope wall climbing, swimming, etc.) But I'd say there's a big difference between running a road marathon and running on a trail with grades steeper than 15%. So I'll leave it in Crocket's hands to educate me. I think his point is why not call trail running - "running", and marathon running - "marathoning" or something. Will the real "running" please step forward.

From Burt on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 22:31:39 from 98.167.151.26

Wow! Two more posts were added before I finished typing. Dallen took the words right out of my mouth. Is sprinting running?

From cgbooth23 on Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 22:48:26 from 207.155.176.18

I kayaked today does that count? When we go down a section of river we call it running the river!! I think that should count, bet I could beat a fast runner when I am running a river!hahaha

From Maurine/Tarzan on Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 00:08:26 from 97.117.76.235

Having followed and participated in some ultrarunning events, I cannot see how ultrarunning is not considered running. Yes, there is walking involved on some of the uphills, but I would say there are relatively few marathoners that could continue to push their minds and bodies past the limit like some of the top ultrarunners do.

From The Howling Commando on Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 07:42:37 from 72.224.24.41

I don't know ultrarunning (yet!) but I do know the tension between road and mt. biking. When I take my bike into the shop I get different reactions from each group of riders. It's almost like the mt. bikers look down on me as if I were a snob rider. I think there are significant differences between ultra running and marathoning on roads, but running is running is running. Whether it's 12:00 a mile, 6:00 a mile, or up and down and over cliffs!

From paul on Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 07:44:01 from 75.162.109.179

Trail running is running. Deal with it. And stop filling my spam box. I need that space for real spam.

From Holt on Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:19:28 from 75.169.89.6

Whoa! I am popular! Okay not me... but my report is and that is kind of like me.

I'll tell you, there where a couple times I thought that I would have owned the race if it was all on roads (or even dirt roads), but it wasn't - it is a trail race and that provided a whole new challenge and set of skills (that need to be developed).

Marathoning is a lot of fun for the challenge of going hard for 26.2 miles and trying to hit some important goals I have there.

Trail Running is a lot of fun for the beautiful places you get to see and the challenging terrain you go through to get there and meeting whatever goal you have set for yourself time-wise there.

Both fun, both challenging, both very rewarding! And yes Paul, both running!

From cgbooth23 on Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:23:20 from 67.136.44.51

Great way to sum it up from the "runner" himself! Happy Running Everyone!

From marion on Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:50:26 from 71.213.119.198

Congratulations on an AMAZING race! Running is such a WONDERFUL sport that can be done in so many arenas and places. You are one fantastic athlete!!!

From josse on Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:44:04 from 70.193.209.13

Looks like Sasha is on a rampage of discrediting everyone running accomplishment. Shame on him!!!

From The Howling Commando on Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 08:11:55 from 72.224.24.41

I encourage everyone to pick up my latest read: "BORN TO RUN" by Christopher McDougall. It's all about the Tarahumaras and their incredible adeptness at running super distances. More importantly it touches on man's quickness to judge others that are different than one's own culture (we can extrapolate that to the exercise communities: whether that be on road, trails, dreadmill, or pool, etc. etc.)

"And if I really wanted to understand the Rarmuri, I should have been there when this ninety-five-year-old man came hiking twenty-five miles over the mountain. Know why he could do it? Because noone ever told him he couldn't." (p. 50)

"Ultrarunners had no reason to cheat because they had nothing to gain: no fame, no wealth, no medals. No one knew who they were, or cared who won their strange rambles through the woods. They didn't even get prize money; all you get for winning an ultra is the same belt buckle as the guy who comes in last."

Wow. Powerful. They get no prize money, no glory, just a belt buckle. The real prize is inside. Inside each and everyone one of us. It's the selfworth we gain when we cross the finish line. It's the feeling of empowerment going toe to toe with our running communities. I don't know but I am less competitive (arguably because I'm less talented) than most of you. My rewards are just getting a run in or ride in. Being in the moment. Savoring each stride or pedal stroke.

Sorry to steal your show, Holt. I just don't understand how people don't think that ultrarunning is running.

From Maurine/Tarzan on Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 09:02:37 from 63.255.172.2

I've read about that book - I'll have to pick it up and give it an actual read. Thanks for the recommendations.

Of course, back in the days when we used to have to run down our food, I think the ultramarathoners fared better than road racers.

Luckily - I love both and think they each have a time and a place.

From Kelli on Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 10:55:51 from 71.219.76.64

Sounds like a great book. Thanks for sharing, it was very well said.

From Burt on Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:46:45 from 68.76.197.194

What we have here are two passionate people on the opposite sides of the spectrum; Crockett and Sasha. Sasha says normal running is out on the road with no limiting factors in performance other than fitness. Crockett says normal running independent of surface, distance, or difficutly. The other 34 of us who have commented here would agree that sprinting, hurdling, steeplechasing, marathoning, trail running, relaying, fartleking, etc. is all RUNNING. Is running a 50 mile race where you have to make preparations such as food, drink, pacers, clothing, resting so different than a 5k flat smooth surface that it should be classified as a different type of running? I think so, but there may be those that disagree. At the end of the day "normal" running is whatever each individual deems it to be for himself/herself. Even stubborn old Sasha would agree with that. I just don't know what a belt buckle has to do with anything.

From cgbooth23 on Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:55:13 from 67.136.44.51

it means you cowboy'd up and finished, anyone who has finished that thing deserves a belt buckle to wear with his Wranglers!

From Burt on Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 13:04:28 from 68.76.197.194

OK. Now I get it. Just giving you a hard time Benn.

From crockett on Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 13:17:23 from 99.206.33.87

The traditional 100-mile finisher award is a belt buckle. I don't think finishing 100 miles is "normal" but an average runner can do it with proper training.

From Burt on Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 13:21:13 from 68.76.197.194

When my buddy won the 50 mile Man Against Horse race he got a fancier belt buckle than the rest of the runners.

From crockett on Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 13:21:23 from 99.206.33.87

BTW I am starting my next 100-mile race in 24 hours. 18000+ feet of climbing. Lots of "running" involved.

From Burt on Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 13:22:41 from 68.76.197.194

Good luck. Can't wait for the report!

BTW, haven't forgotten that this is Holt's blog. You're awesome Holt!

From Jon on Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 13:23:45 from 138.64.2.76

Good luck, Davy. Hope you enjoy your RUNNING race!

Yeah, sorry for spamming this blog, Holt. It happened to LuzyLew yesterday, too.

From Vis on Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 13:32:22 from 208.88.9.50

Just wanted to give you one more, Holt. When can we expect your first 100 miler? And what kind of weeks would you put in training for that baby? 200-210?

From Jon on Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 13:48:19 from 138.64.2.76

Let's see- Dave did 50 mile training runs and 150 mile weeks for a 50 mile race... so I would expect 300 mile weeks and 100 mile training runs for his first 100.

By the way, if you want to do a 100, come join me on the Rocky Raccoon this Feb.

From Holt on Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 15:52:50 from 204.113.55.41

200-300

umm... no thanks!

From Mik'L on Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 22:15:05 from 208.117.127.110

I bet you're glad your post turned in to a big debate! I just had a chance to read this and it was awesome! Great job...I knew you would be up there with the winners. I wish Clyde could have run it but it was not to be this year. Sounds like you are debating doing another one ;) so he'll have to try it with you.

From sam Dean-Howard on Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 07:22:09 from 78.32.130.9

only just read your race report, how cool are you well done what an achievement..... something I will at in quite a few years, is ultras..... again huge Well Done :-)

From Curls on Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 19:02:54 from 67.40.103.102

coach! your crazy! :) way to go!

From RunnerAdam on Thu, Jul 02, 2009 at 01:48:03 from 72.211.201.190

Holt, I was amazed at your weekly mileage even before I learned of your first ultra. I think its great to mix it up - road and off-road. I've heard it makes you better at the marathon too. Did that thought cross your mind?

From Lyns on Fri, Jul 03, 2009 at 14:50:10 from 75.162.104.51

Wow, interesting discussion.

Holt - Amazing! You are what I call a "Superhuman".

From Holt on Sat, Jul 04, 2009 at 21:28:04 from 75.169.57.203

Thanks everyone -

RunnerAdam, really that is why I was able to be talked into this thing (hoping that the big mileage would help the marathon), but I ended up with a lot more than just mileage through it all!

From crockett on Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 15:46:08 from 70.56.100.230

I see Holt's disussion thread is still on top of the Hot list. Just to stir the fire again about if trail running is running, looks like USA Track and Field thinks it is. Last weekend I ran it what was recognized by USATF at the national championship for the 100-mile distance. I came away with first place in the 50-54 age group...whoo, hoo. http://www.crockettclan.org/blog/?p=158

From Maurine/Tarzan on Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 16:22:24 from 63.255.172.2

I will not bow down to you or kiss your smelly trail running shoes.

('We are the Champions' is playing in the background for you though)

From Kelli on Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 17:55:32 from 71.219.89.21

THAT IS AWESOME!!!! Now headed over to your blog to read about it, I am BEHIND!

From Holt on Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 17:59:17 from 75.169.57.203

Davy, I read your report (just didn't have time to comment on it at the time). Congrats, very cool and sounds like a very fun run. It got me thinking...!

From Superfly on Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 20:07:39 from 208.117.127.110

Oh! Awe! A National Champion... Sounds pretty cool. You better go for it.

From karin on Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 14:28:44 from 71.32.234.96

A little late in commenting,but I'm new to the blog. Fantastic!!! My husband, Mel and I did the # 3 aid station on the Squaw Peak 50. I also came up backwards from Aid station 10 to met my buddy that was running, so I saw you come by twice. I have done the SP 50 2 times and I know how horribly hard it is. You did awesome. you do have to watch the trail every second or you will fall. By the way, I'm Josse's mom. Keep id up. Karin Rowley

From Holt on Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 20:22:15 from 75.169.57.203

Thanks Karin.

From Michael Finch on Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 13:29:06 from 204.113.54.42

amazing race. i really think you would have won if it were on the road

From Michael Finch on Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 13:29:48 from 204.113.54.42

that takes a lot of will power to finish these and you've done it a couple times now! nice will power.

From Michael Finch on Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 13:30:16 from 204.113.54.42

are you ever going to run a 100miler?

From Janz on Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 13:35:40 from 204.113.54.42

hahah i saw you were at 99 comments so i thought i'd give you one more for a nice odd number of 100! I can't beleive you ran a 50 miler! i can barely hope to finish a 5 miler :) but good job...and you know what they say, for every wrong turn you take in a 50 miler, a 40 pound baby is born! hahhahahahha oh man i love that quote. so that means, based off of your race, there is now 3, 40 pound babies now born in the world! way to be!

From Hell Raiser on Tue, Aug 04, 2015 at 11:05:23 from 174.23.134.24

run

rən/

verb

1.

move at a speed faster than a walk, never having both or all the feet on the ground at the same time.

"the dog ran across the road"

synonyms: sprint, race, dart, rush, dash, hasten, hurry, scurry, scamper, bolt, fly, gallop, career, charge, shoot, hurtle, speed, zoom, go like lightning, go hell-bent for leather, go like the wind, go like a bat out of hell; jog, trot; informaltear, pelt, scoot, hotfoot it, leg it, belt, zip, whip, bomb, hightail it, barrel

"she ran across the road"

From Holt on Wed, Aug 05, 2015 at 09:46:59 from 67.2.238.21

Thanks Nick... That was great info.

From Holt on Wed, Aug 05, 2015 at 09:48:27 from 67.2.238.21

Janz, I was just thinking about those 40 lb. babies. They must be huge by now! 👶🏻🍕🍩🍔🍰🍦🍫🍺

From Alli Peterson on Wed, Aug 05, 2015 at 09:58:54 from 97.117.32.107

Coach did you know this was 6 years ago

From Holt on Wed, Aug 05, 2015 at 10:17:07 from 67.2.238.21

Really? I thought I just ran this a month or two ago! Yup, but Nick made a comment, so I did too. Then I chuckled at my main girl Janz's comment. And it got thinking about what I commented on to her. I've heard rumors that Janz is back around, so I hope maybe she will get blogging again. Now you made a comment and I am commenting back at you... And before you know it, the most epic comment thread ever on the blog will be back in session!

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