June 25, 2022

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Member Since:

Jul 27, 2010



Goal Type:


Running Accomplishments:

PR's -

Mile - 4:38    (High School)

2 Mile - 10:12 (High School) 

3 mile - 15:51 (High School)

10k - 35:19 (High School)

Marathon - 2:59 marathon (London -2013)

Half marathon - 1:25:18 (Deseret News 2013)

Ran 5 of the World Marathon Majors (NY, Chicago, Boston, London & Berlin) at least twice.

7 x Boston Marathon (1999, 2000, 2005, 2007, 2014, 2020 (virtual due to covid) 2021

11 x NYC Marathon (1997, 1998, 2010, 2011, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021)



Short-Term Running Goals:

Sub 3 hour marathon

Long-Term Running Goals:

Continue to enjoy running and racing as long as my body permits me.  


Old guy - (grandfather even) been running for 40+ years.  

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Miles:This week: 12.00 Month: 101.75 Year: 987.15
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance

AM - 4 miles with Finn, mostly off-lead, on the golf course this morning.  

PM - 6 miles at lunchtime.  Hot again - 97 I think.  But actually did not feel as hot as yesterday.  Might have been a breeze.

So I am having this internal debate with myself.  About 6 - 7 weeks ago - I was reasonably pleased with how I was feeling in my training runs.  Did a couple of races...felt profoundly slow - decided to do some speed workouts -- never actually raced any after about 5 weeks of at least 1 workout per week...but was really fatigued and not enjoying even the easy days.  Did not even want to race.  

Something is "off".  Not sure if the stress of the workouts set me back or the heat or not enough iron supplements...anyway

My debate is whether to increase my mileage volume now (eliminating the fast workouts for a while) gradually over the remainder of the summer - or take a short break and decrease mileage for a few weeks.  I would like to be ready to run a fall marathon.

From Tom Slick on Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 13:27:00 from

97 degrees - that kind of heat always makes me feel slower. My cure is, run in the coolest part of the early mornings, get into a great nutrition system, and keep yourself hydrated!

I jealous, you have run all 5 of the World Marathon Majors (NY, Chicago, Boston, London & Berlin). I may have to re-adjust my goals in the future to accommodate the WMM's.

From Rob Murphy on Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 13:44:52 from

If I lived in Florida or anywhere in the south, I'd focus on quality training and racing in the late fall and winter with an eye towards winter and spring racing.

I wouldn't fight the summers. I'd focus on general wellness. Tweaking my rest and diet, swimming and biking some, and just taking what each day gave me.

I've been having some good training lately but I honestly have nothing planned out. I just wake up every morning, evaluate how I'm feeling, and go from there.

Oh yeah, I'm thinking some Atlanta area training partners might help too.

From Drew on Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 03:43:54 from

Hey Bret, since Rob already has the sensible and intelligent angle covered, I'll be glad to represent the impetuous and irrational perspective.

You mentioned a couple things in your post- feeling worn down from speed workouts, and how to approach a fall marathon.

As for the speed fatigue - that is to be expected to some degree, and I think you've been doing the right thing by taking it easy this week. One thing I'd suggest doing a little differently is aligning your workout times more closely to your race times. As I recall your last 5k was not too representative, so there is wiggle room...but I think you've been doing 5k workouts around 5:40 pace, and your previous 5k averaged about 6:40 pace? In my case I know that kind of gap (if I could even do it!) would be pushing me into a deficit I couldn't recover from.

At any rate, you did put in several weeks of sharp training, and you will recover from it-likely faster.

Fall marathon training in our neck of the woods is not too ideal. If you are going to do it, at least the paces required for marathon workouts are more manageable in the humidity than 5k/10k training paces.

In running a fall marathon, you have to think about your goal. If you just want to run solid, then consistent miles with some marathon pace worked in can take you pretty far. And everything Rob said about general wellness.

If you want to run a PR, then you're talking about pushing yourself to an uncomfortable place. I think that for people like you who have been through multiple training cycles where they've trained consistently, some kind of periodization is needed. Leading up to the race, I'd want at least 10 weeks of marathon pace specific training. Then before that, I'd do whatever works for me to achieve and sustain that pace. In my case, that's usually a mix of base on one side, to cover stamina, and speed on the other, to balance out the endless slow running and make marathon pace feel easier.

From Rob Murphy on Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 06:17:26 from

Drew's point about training paces is a good one. I know for a fact that I have certain paces - 5k, 10k, marathon pace - in my head that don't always jibe with reality.

I see that in my coaching too. For example, this morning I'm going to have my top returning runners run an 8 mile out-and-back with 2 miles "tempo". I could give them each a specific time to hit based on previous 5k or 3200 times, but they would never hit it at this point in the summer and they would just leave the workout feeling like failures.

Instead, I'll give them more vague instructions like "really open it up for a couple miles". I know their competitive natures will kick in and they'll run some pretty decent splits. No matter what they run, I'll be happy. It's much easier mentally than saying "you need to run 10:26".

From Bret on Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 08:45:31 from

Thanks for the comments and advice. I think with regard to the pace on the speed work I was doing - it was actually based on feel - as Rob suggests to his team - and not based upon a pre-designed target.

I think my internal debate is really over whether I will find more benefit from a period of increased mileage volume (base) or if I need to ease up a bit and allow whatever fatigue/malaise seems to be impeding me currently to subside. It seems counter-intuitive to think that more mileage is what I need if I am feeling fatigued - but I think anecdotally for myself and perhaps there is support scientifically - that more aerobic miles may be the "cure". Although there is more "pounding" and wear and tear - there is also the benefit of improved aerobic efficiency etc.

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