Running on Empty

Welcome back! Glad to see the Lost Sheep back in the fold!

Thanks Sasha. I need to get more serious and you are right about being accountable. I think my fitness was better than the race indicated, probably 3:30 had I been wiser, but nowhere near where I need to be. Your advise is always welcome.

Yes, indeed, it was good to meet you. As hot as it was, any under-training was really magnified. Good race, regardless, and gives you something to build on.

Hi Paul. We must have just missed each other at the finish. I came in about 2 minutes behind you. Good job.

Good to see you back blogging. Even though we are all pretty self motivated the accountability of the blog does help.

How is the recovery from the marathon coming?

Jon,

Thanks for keeping me in mind. My recovery has been good, probably too good. Time to get more serious for me.

I've never tried step classes, but I've done aerobics with my wife. I don't know why, but 15 minutes of aerobics is more tiring (boring?) for me than 8 miles of running!

Where do you do all your classes? How do you decide which ones to do?

Jon,

My classes are at the Lifetime Fitness gym in South Jordan down by the Jordan River. My schedule only allows me to go to gym Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, so I take the classes offered at 5:45 or 6:00 a.m.

Any of the four kids High School age? I am the coach at Riverton HS.

I'd noticed that you coached at Riverton. In response to your question, my oldest son will be a sophomore at Riverton this coming year, but, sadly, he is not a runner. (He is one of the center snares in the marching band.)

My daughter will be in 7th grade at Oquirrh Hills this year.

Are you still doing the Slam?

Yes, I am still doing the Slam, though I have to admit at this point my training is behind where I had hoped. (Seems something always gets in the way.) I didn't make the lottery at St. George, but in any event, I will do Des News in addition. I'll see how I feel towards the fall to see if I want to use the Slam to get into St. George.

Thanks for the comment, I am always impressed by all of you on here. Wish I were more consistent.

That is some serious dedication to get in that many miles on the treadmill!!!

I think you ran more miles on the treadmill this morning than I have run in my entire life. Wow!

Hi Paul. It was good to hear from you. I don't know how you can stand to run on the treadmill for that long. What races are you training for?

I agree about the treadmill. It would drive me nuts!

Great week of running.

Nice time on a tough course. Good job on a strong second half!

Agreed that you had a strong second half split for this course. Keep blogging your workouts - its a good motivator.

great job. You make running seem easy.

Nice job...especially this time of year!

Congrats on the finish. I think I rememeber you passing me around mile 20-21. I wish I could have kept up with you.

Nice job Paul. Are you running the last 3 of the grand slam or was this replacing one of them?

Thanks to all for the comments.

Andy, right now I am not in St. George. I am toying with the idea of running it depending on how TOU goes. I have never trained very consistently, but am going to make an effort to sustain regular running and increased mileage at least through TOU.

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm trying to stick with it, I know by logging more miles things will fall into place!

Take Care.

You must be recovering pretty good if you can run 14 miles less than a week after a marathon. Good luck at the Logan marthon. If you keep up the miles you'll do very well.

Thanks, this is the first time I've ever really tried to raise my mileage and so far I've been able to handle it.

The consistency will pay off.

Well said Jon! Alot of treadmill miles, that is hard. I don't really enjoy the treadmill unless it is snowing, below 0 degress and windy. Then I will resort to the treadmill. I will even go out in 100 degree weather over the treadmill. But I am glad to see you getting in the miles.

I got in the treadmill habit by: 1) having young kids treadmill running allows me to be at home while running in the basement, 2) avoiding injury since I could just step off if I overdid things, 3) and as a good excuse for watching TV or DVDs. Now I run on the treadmill even at the gym, as the treadmills at the gym are calibrated very well, and they let you run at a decline.

I understand the whole treadmill at home so you can watch the kids- sometimes I wish I had one. Very convenient.

Yes I do admit sometime I wish I had one at home for the same reasons. What marathon are you running this fall?

Great job on the sub-20 5K time trial! It's really tough to run a strong 5K on a training run so I would think you could cut off a good chunk of time in a race environment. I think this also shows that your sub-3 marathon goal is very doable for SGM.

Nice run! Also, you're getting in some great miles!

Nice running Paul and great effort on your 5k time trial. Have you set a goal time for the PC marathon yet?

Cal -- I haven't really set in on a time yet, since this more consistent running higher mileage is new to me. In the past I've had trouble fading in the last miles but am hoping a higher aerobic base helps with that. Have you settled in on a time for PC? I preferred the 2006 course to the 2007 course (I liked the rail trail coming at the end) but I may be tainted from last year just being a particularly lame run for me.

My PCM time was lame last year too. I'm not sure how well conditioned I am right now due to some nagging issues over the past few weeks, but I'm thinking a time in the mid to low 3:20's would be a reasonable target.

Paul- with as many miles as you have been running, I bet you could run at least 30 seconds faster in a 5k if you did an official race. It may help to actually compete in a local one, give some more of the mental toughness you mentioned. By the way, 3:00 SFM is equal to about 19:20 5k.

paul - great job logging the miles and also blogging the miles. I noticed you comment on Kim's blog. Do you know her?

Hey, thanks for your comment. I think I recognize you from Lifetime. If I could figure out how to compress my picture I could get one posted. Any suggestions.

Thanks for the comment. That is great that the higher mileage is treating you well. If you can get that and stay healthy everything else will come your way.

Thank you for your comment. I've been looking at your blog and all I can say is WOW all those treadmill runs (so long and fast!). I'm thinking the treadmill isn't such a "dreadmill" after all. However, since I use the one in my basement it can get a bit lonely, but if I sweat all over the place (like I did yesterday) at least I won't offend anyone;) Keep on running, your mileage is impressive!

So, I thought it was from they gym that I recognized you but I talked to Julie G. and figured out where it is from. My daughter Nicole used to go to Rosamond and was friends with and played soccer with Dorothy. But I have probably seen you at the gym too.

Hey Paul. You are putting in some serious miles. Great job. I need to try out that decline feature on the treamill.

Great miles this week. Are you running Park City next week?

Andy -- Thanks for the comment. I am running Park City, but don't know what to really expect timewise as I've been doing more mileage than ever before but no speed or pace work.

Nice training week so far.

Thanks Terry, lots of slow miles, but hopefully I can address speed when I improve my aerobic base.

Wow, already 42 miles for the week. Are you tapering off over the next couple of days?

Cal -- I suppose I'm doing a Sasha type taper. I will step it down over the next two days more. Also, most of my the miles have been very easy, which makes me wonder if I'll be able to sustain any decent pace. I'm viewing Park City as more of a training run, and thought your plan for the race looked very sensible, though I don't know if I can sustain that pace.

Thanks for posting the Park City course on the course tool. Are the paces pretty consistent with what you ran last year? It predicts a couple of minutes slower than I was planning and am starting to think that I should be a little more conservative.

Andy, I forgot you didn't run PC last year. I thought the course changes have made the race slower than the course in 2006. The "downhill" is no longer the steady rail to trail portion, but instead is a net downhill through neighborhoods with some undulations. I was way undertrained last year, so my pace from last year is not a very good indication of how well the course tool actually correlates, but I do think it is not as fast as it was in 2006. (I also think the 2006 course was short.)

I think I remember measuring the course 0.2 short in 2006 also.

I've not used the course tool much before, but checking the smooth course feature makes a big difference. For example, by checking the smooth the course out feature, the projected finish time for a target flat of 7:20 pace drops from 3:27:28 to 3:21:14. I wish I had more experience in which is a better projection. Perhaps you know?

I think the results look more reasonable with the smoothing on, but I'm no expert. Unfortunately, I lost my data from last years race so I can't compare any of that either.

Cal -- I lost my data transfer cable to my Garmin last year sometime and have not been able to export any data before it gets overwritten and don't have last years splits either.

The smoothing feature gives me the results that I want so it must be right.

Yeah, why should we run the event when we can just put numbers into the course tool?

As I've been tinkering around (great work productivity today, I know) It seems that without the smoothing feature the splits for miles 14 and 15 are skewed too far.

Thanks for posting that I will go check it out. I didnt see one before so that will really help me out with a good plan. Thanks again Paul.

Paul, which Garmin do you have?

Cal -- I have the Forerunner 301. No upgrade yet for this treadmill runner.

I have a cable from my old 201 that I don't use. (I assume its the same as for the 301).

I could give it to you this weekend if you're interested.

Cal -- Thanks for the kind offer, its certainly worth a try. I used to download my data from outside runs into SportsTracks http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/SportTracks/ which I thought was cool, and as a bonus is free. Do you, Andy, or anyone else download your GPS and heartrate data into such a program?

I don't download any of my data at all. I did for the first couple of months that I had my Garmin but got bored with it and just use the Garmin to measure distance and time.

Andy, I agree, I thought the software that came provided by Garmin was quite limited and got bored with it soon. I prefer the interactive blogging here (finding it more motivating and a higher lever of accountability) but since SportTracks was free and included satelite and weather info I thought it was cool.

Cal -- In thinking about the 201, it has a different interface from the 301, so I don't think the data transfer cables are compatible. The 301 is more like a USB port, it doesn't have to fit in the cradle that the 201 does. Oh, well.

With regards to the course tool, I asked on the discussion forum and Sasha posted this, "Assuming that you used the default 20% crazy grade cutoff, and given that PCM does not have 20% grade anywhere, the smoothed prediction would be more accurate. In fact, for that course if you set it at 10% it will be even better. There is nothing steeper than 10% on that course. Be aware, though, that Course Tool does not take the effects of less oxygen at altitude into consideration. At least not yet."

As usual, Sasha comes through.

Thanks for following up on that Paul. That data looks very reasonable now.

BTW, I downloaded the SportTracks software. I'll check it out and see how it looks the next time I save off my Garmin data.

Very nice job on the race, especially with no taper and with your recent mileage increases. Looks like you and Cal came in about the same time.

Tom, I didn't realize until after the race that it was Cal who kept passing me every time I stopped to be a big pansy. We both sort of laughed at the finish. I was looking for a guy with a goatee and he was looking for me in the red running shirt. Cal was strong and steady.

That was a big improvement over last year. You ran very well considering the amount of miles that you are running right now. I have the sames mental issues that you do. After races, I am always disappointed and feel that I quit and didn't have the mental edge to push through the pain. I have decided that we really are at our physical limits and probably couldn't give a whole lot more. I'm glad you introduced yourself. I don't think that I would have recognized you.

Andy, thanks for the encouragement. I think part of my problem comes from heart rate monitoring. I probably shouldn't wear a heart rate monitor in races any more as I read too much into it. I don't really know why I do, since most of the time I'm not wearing one in training. I suppose I need to do some fast finish longer runs as well.

Fast finish long runs is the one thing that I regret not doing this year. All of my long runs have been at a steady, comfortable pace.

Great job Paul! You had a tough course and still finished great. Are you running SG? You should really be able to kick it in gear if you are.

That's still a good time supposing you were training through the marathon rather than tapering. Good work.

Great job Paul!!

Great job man. Looks like you had a great race. Your analyst of the race helped alot to give me something to shoot for. You did awesome.

That sounds like a great workout. I can't believe you've already run 37 miles since the marathon. (with no days off). Pretty amazing stuff!

This is a great workout this soon after PCM. With all the miles and effort you've been putting in this last while I'm betting you'll be seeing a major boost in your abilities soon. Just don't get hurt!

I thought getting in 10 miles at a snail's pace this morning was pushing it for me. You cranked out 15 with 4 at MP and 4 at threshold? Great job.

WOW!! Ah didnt I eat your dust at PCM?? And your just kicking butt again already?? Very good job man. Your going to do awesome at SGM if you go again. What races do you have coming up??

Holy Crap! And you just ran a marathon last Saturday. You are way out of my league man. Great job on the work out, you sound like you are ready to go sub-3 very soon. Good Luck. Like Tom said, Don't get hurt.

Your a BEAST! No pain? After a marathon, it hurts to even think about running. Were not worthy. Keep it up.

Do you run on a treadmill or do you have your Garmin set for quarter mile splits? How do you get all these splits for .75 and .25 miles at certain paces. Well, however you do it, that is a very nice run. You have just been out of control these last few weeks. Great training!

Jeff -- I ran this workout on the treadmill at the gym, which I feel is calibrated very well. (I take flack for running so much on the treadmill, but I like it.) However, I know calibration makes a big difference and don't trust my home treadmill which is a decent treadmill, but it is not calibrated nearly as accurately. Looking back on my workout, I should probably have tried to do another .75 to get to approximately 20 minutes of what Tinman calls critical velocity (CV) running.

Oh dont worry about the flack you take. I did at least a full yr of training on a treadmill and even ran more miles on them then off. I feel better about doing speed work on one just to make sure I am getting it in at the right speed. And you did a great job hitting those fast ones. Your recovery is alot faster then what I normally run my at. Your are going to just do awesome at SGM for sure.

If I could be as fast as you, I would do all my training on the treadmill. You are doing great. Keep it up. If you ever do decide to do some outside running, you could come run with the Bingham Buttkickers.

Geeez! Where are your priorities!! :) Just kidding. With school back in session now and softball for the girls, life is getting crazy again.

I don't know how you do it, Paul. You're my treadmill hero.

That treadmill sounds pretty cool that has the ability to do a decline. Are those fairly new? I don't think I have ever seen one.

Those are some speedy miles. Nice work!

You've got some great mileage going again this week.

Geez Paul, I thought I was doing great on the mileage board this week but you haven't even blogged today and your right below me. You the man.

Sounds like you are doing well and running very consistently. Congrats on your second place finish.

Great job on the race. You are well on your way to getting that sub-3 marathon within the next year.

Good race Paul! 5:50 on the first mile is smokin, and that's a great 5k time!

Cal -- Thanks, the 1st mile was too fast for me, probably cost me a few seconds, but I was really trying to force myself into "racing." Unfortunately, it wasn't enough, but I am pleased overall.

Nice work, Paul.

Great start to the week!

You are an animal with the mileage. I'll be interested to see how you do in your next marathon with a taper.

Thanks Rockness. I've never run this much but seem to have been able to handle the increase. I am scheduled to run Top of Utah in Logan, Utah on the 20th of this month. It was going to be my last marathon of the season, but I got in to the St. George, Utah Marathon two weeks later. St. George is a faster course, so I've got to decide how to approach the two marathons.

Paul I would say for TOU run it very easy, similar to your other training runs. Maybe even bag it or bail out after 16-20 miles if you truly want to do your best at St. George. I know very few runners who have been able to pull of a good marathon just 2 weeks after another marathon, especially if they race the 1st one. And sometimes really bad things happen (injury-wise -- just ask my hamstrings) after doing 2 hard marathons close together.

Perhaps since you've been able to handle the increase in mileage without troubles you might be the exception and you will run well at both races, but I think for most runners it doesn't work out so well. Just my 2 cents.

BTW in my case even when I say I'll run a race like a "training" run, it rarely turns out that way. It's just too tempting to want to RACE when it's a RACE and you are surrounded by people who are racing.

Good luck to you whatever you decide.

Tom, I agree, that happened to me two years ago when I did them both (less training, but still) I sort of tweenered TOU, got sick, was disappointed at St. George.

From a family harmony point, I can't now bail on TOU since its the one the family is going to.

Wow!! You're a hill machine. Hey, my hubby is an attorney in Salt Lake as well. Where did you go to Law School?

BYU Law School. I've already seen you are a U fan, that's ok.

We have BYU fans and Utah fans all right in the same home and do well, so I suppose it will work out on the blog! ha ha!

Thanks for your advice about the foam roller. I think I want to find one of those. I know Bonnie has mentioned it to me many times.

Yes, I am a U fan, but my hubby is a Y fan. He also went to BYU Law School. Let's see, I think he graduated from law school in 2001. How about you?

Thanks for suggesting the downhill treadmill run. It was a great workout. I don't think I even broke a sweat. ha ha. If you have any suggestions for my taper I would love to hear them.

Dang dude, how do you keep track of all those incline and pace changes? I have a hard enough time remembering my name at the end of a good run.

12 miles at under 6:40 pace, that's cruising! and you're already over 66 miles for the week... way to go!

Thanks Cal, if the miles weren't downhill I would be much more stoked. I feel right on the fringe of being close to 3:00 given the downhills, but am not confident.

yeah, i feel like i'm right on the cusp for sub-3 myself. maybe if everything falls into place on race day...

I'm thinking you both have it in the bag. Paul, if you can run these training runs this fast, it seems to me you will be totally fine. Best of luck.

I might try to fit a workout like this one in before SGM...

Are you doing TOU? Just thinkin' you really backed off on miles.

Michelle -- I am doing TOU and SGM. I am in a semi-taper, it feels weird. Still have to figure out how to do them both effectively.

Thanks for the welcome. I use to go to Lifetime but I don't anymore. We built a great gym in our basement with mirrors and all. I was feeling guilty for spending so much money on that gym and never using it. Good luck to you for both marathons. Are you trying to break 3 at either of those?

Nice workout, and getting the core work in too. What's your next big race (SGM)?

Your a true iron man. Running, core work and back to back marathons. Your the man, great job!

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm running TOU and SGM. If all goes well, I will break 3:00.

How in the heck can you remember all of your paces and inclines on the treadmill?

Nice hill workout!

Knowing that I will be blogging (such good accountability) and since I have to set the pace and incline, I just make a mental note of them.

Great run Paul. I'm very jealous of your workout!

Good luck on Sat.

Funny comment on my blog yesterday :)

Good luck Sat.

What is a foam roller?

Which Gym do you go to? I love the roller.

Lifetime, not Treehouse.

I'm not so sure you would be watching from behind. My little brother went to Lifetime all Summer and loved it and I have a friend of my wife's that works there. Treehouse is 3 minutes from my office, 8 minutes from home, and 3 minutes from the kids school so it is really nice for me.

When you are doing your group runs I would love to join up some time. All of my running buds have moved and I am looking for people to help motivate me. After St. George or next Spring I would love to tag along.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind (though I warn you I do most of my running, crazy as it seems, on the treadmill, including long runs).

Also, just for other options, http://walter.fastrunningblog.com/ runs with a group more regularly than I do, as well as http://peggy.fastrunningblog.com/, but these are more Riverton/South Jordan based groups.

Now of course I'll have to look you up in Hobble Creek results to learn more about you.

I think I did a 22 miler on a treadmill last month so I know the feeling.

Funny, looks like Peggy P. finished 2 seconds ahead of you at Hobble Creek so you should know her. :)

We have exchanged a few comments she went sailing past me at about 6 miles in and I must have been close to 40 seconds ahead of me at one time. She runs like a deer. Where she looks like a runner I look like more of a converted football player.

Good luck at TOU! You'll do great.

Hey Paul!! Good luck at TOU tomorrow!! Can't wait to hear how it goes. Enjoy yourself and relish those winding back and forth streets those last couple of miles. Hope they have a fancy moose medal for you -- definitely makes it all worth it! Have fun!

Anxious to find out how you did! My bro (he's 40) ran TOU also as his first marathon today and did 3:37 on minimal training. You men and your testosterone. He is also doing SG. Hope it went well for you.

Good job today, Paul. Mile 23 is a tough one- uphill and winding. But you did a nice job picking it up again towards the end. Good race.

Great Job Paul. You did well by my book. Best to save yourself for the big race in 2 weeks. Speedy recovery and good luck in 2 weeks.

Incredible race Paul. You must be in the toughest division by far!! (That's kind of a bummer.) You had some super fast miles. Can't wait to see how you do at SG. Congrats again!

You would have never known if you didn't go for it. I had you in my sites for the first 19 miles and you looked really strong. With the high miles that you have been running, you should be able to recover well for SGM for another shot at sub-3.

your splits are amazing!! It would be fun to watch you run.

I love the go for it spirit! Plus, like Jon said you brought it back down again at the end. STG will be your sub 3. Hope you recover well. Great job!

Way to go Paul! I admire you for starting out aggressively and going for the sub-3. I think that its well within your ability to achieve it at St. George now.

Dry run practice for St. G - just means you know what it feels like to run sub 3 through 2/3 of a marathon, and you saved enough that you can do it in St. G.

Great job Paul. SG is waiting and you'll do great.

Good effort, the day was just not right. I have an idea, all you guys that like to start out fast can use me at SG to have a conservative 1st half (1:32-1:33)then we can let it loose and blow by everyone that started to hard the 1st half. The key to racing well is learning what it feels like to run just under that threshold. I think you can do it if you start out alittle easier. Just a suggestion. I remeber it working well for Cal at Ogden.

Good job, Paul. I "went for it" at TOU in 2006 and my experience was similar to yours (only quite a bit slower). Of course, I "went for it" last year at SG and took 20 minutes off my PR. We'll never find out our limits if we don't push them. No risk. No reward.

I think Josse is probably including me in her "guys that like to start out fast" group. I do think Josse's "conservative 1st half" strategy for SG may have some merit. The difference is that she considers a first half in 1:32-1:33 as conservative. For me, that is more of a "go for it" pace, but if I'm not around 1:32 at the half I won't have any chance at sub-3:00. It's sure going to be fun seeing what unfolds in two weeks.

Paul great job even with the blow up. You went for it and should have no regrets. Good idea to save some energy at the end and save it for SGM. We're going to have great group of sub-3 runners.

Thanks, all, for the comments. I read and re-read them taking the encouragement to heart. I'm still trying to figure out how to push just enough but not too hard. Guess that makes it interesting.

Nice Job Paul. Pretty solid first 20. You will do great at SGM. Too bad we missed pulling you along. If only I had known....Probably still better than your PR performance at SGM last year. Another PR is very close...

Marathon yesterday, 10 today, ouch! Glad your feeling good.

Did I read that right?

You are insane!!! :)

Well, I'm a bit disappointed in blowing up yesterday, so I figure this week should be put to good use.

I don't think I have ever been able to go out and run 10 miles the day after a marathon, even when my legs haven't been beat up. Good job!!

how in the world can you do that?? I can barely walk!!

Holy, wow! You are an animal! Enough said.

Agreed on the animal comment Paul, you must have superman legs. You're gonna rip it up at SGM!

Thanks, I think I'm just so nervous of bonking again, when I'm just on the verge of the sub 3:00, so I want a good week.

Nice running Paul. You know its ok to take a day off once in a while. :)

Cal, I took off last Friday. :)

Great run rhis morning. Yea lead him down the path of utter pain this morning. Good luck at st. george. It should be great.

You are a crazy maniac! how do you do it??

Is sub 3:00 in your sights next week?

Great job at TOU. I can't wait to see how you do at St. George.

You are a CRAZY MAN!!!

I wish I were crazy good -- I'm just wishing my training had been better earlier and trying to make up for lost time. Plus, today it might be hard to get in any workout.

Your training looks great as well. I think I need to find a TM with a negative incline. I hear that is great training for St. George. I'll have to remember that next time.

Since I may be a spectator that day, I'm looking forward to you having a banner day at St. George, so make sure you get there healthy and strong, ok?

Matt, I love the decline on the treadmill.

Cal, I have to say when I got back to blogging more seriously and bettering my training, you were one of the primary factors.

Didn't you just run a marathon a few days ago? You are NUTS! I can't believe all the high quality miles you have been able to put in this week. You should have a great day at SGM if you get yourself all nice and rested up right.

Oh my word, you just keep going and going ang going! YOU BE CRAZY:)

Hey Paul, if it is just you I might have somewhere (maybe). Let me know if you're interested.

It totally goes against my nature to ever ask (I hate feeling like a burden), but at this point, I have to explore all options.

I will see what I can find out. I possibly have 2 options for you. Either way it might be the floor so you'd have to bring a blow-up matress or something. I'll see what I can find out and let you know.

Man, how many marathons have you run this year? You are a beast! Good luck at St. George...hoping for a PR?

Rock -- SGM will be my 6th this year (can't call them all races) and I am hoping to break 3:00 at SGM.

Hey Paul, there was someday that has 2 available rooms in SG that posted on the discussion forem yesterday. Check that out and let me know. One of my options is a no go but the other still might work out. Let me know.

Thanks Michelle,

I don't need the rooms for 2 nights, and if necessary I will sleep in the car or something. I actually gave the guy with the two rooms the idea to post here since I had already looked into that.

Things will work out.

Hey Paul I might have a place for you to stay if you're still looking. I sent you a private email with details if you're interested.

Thanks to all, I've committed to sharing a room so I have a place to stay now.

Now that's more like what a taper should be like. Good job Paul.

Wow it looks like you are on your way to break your PR.

Thank you for your comment. I need a lot of encouragement at this point of my training.

With the extra motivation and your talent. Sub 3 is lookin good!

NO WAY!!! Did you really take a day off?

Sounds like you're ready for a great race.

BTW, if it weren't the Wasatch Running Center lettering on your shirt (in your blog photo) we could be in the same club. Lately, I've also been wearing my red shirt, black shorts and white hat to races.

Nice running Paul. Looks like your on track for a great marathon!

What does your core workout consist of? I'll be doing much more of that in the future.

Thanks for the well wishes.

Cal, for my core work I typically go to a core class -- 30 minutes which varies, but we typically do some plank, some oblique work, and use those gym balls and a bosu. The instructor is a big yoga guy, so we also do some lower back work. I should do more, but figure anything is better than nothing.

Wow! The resemblance is uncanny!

Hey good luck Saturday. Looking forward to meeting you and actually talking face-to-face.

What a great job despite the unfavorable conditions. And a PR to boot! You go, Paul!

Wow, a pr in that weather, that's impressive. You were close to your ultimate goal of 3:00, you're going to kill that at your next race. You'll have to make a new long term goal!

Congratulations on a great race!

Awesome job today.

What an awesome run for you under terrible conditions. I'm very impressed. I wish I could have found you and run at least part of the race with you, but I don't think I could have kept up with you for long. Great job!

Paul, you got a PR today? That is amazing! Nice work.

It's nice to get a PR and know that you can come back next year and score another PR with some better conditions. Good job.

Paul,

You are so stinkin' fast!! Sorry about the cramps and barely missing the sub 3, but DANG -- you are fast!!! Congrats on the PR. You did awesome!

Paul, a PR under those conditions! You are a complete animal. Your mental toughness is just flat awesome. Congrats on a great race and a very good year of running.

You ran a great race a deserved the sub 3. It is amazing that one bad mile did you in. You still got a huge PR and should be happy with how well your running has improved this year.

Great job out there yesterday! And a PR too! Congrats

Paul, given the conditions your effort was well worth a sub-3 at a typical SGM. Still a great time and a great way finish off the Slam. You've come on stronger as the year has progressed. Way to go!

Great job! I didn't mind the rain so much, but when it's accompanied by that dang headwind it does get a bit annoying! :o) It's a great story to tell though!

You did awesome on such a tough day! Congrats on the PR!!

Great job Paul! You totally kicked butt.

Great job, Paul. Big PR on a tough day. Nice work.

3:01 is an amazing time. I'm so impressed. You did great.

Hey great race and great job on the PR! I enjoyed getting to meet you and run with you for a few miles. I needed that pacing otherwise I would have killed myself off in the first half no doubt. So thanks a lot and hopefully we'll meet up again in some other races.

Good to meet you and run with you a while Paul. I feel so bad that happened the last 1.5 miles!! Nothing you can do about that though; not like you mentally gave up. Dido to everybody else's comments about what it would've been at a "typical SGM", but I know that doesn't help much. Sub 3 for sure next race. Great job.

Great race in crappy conditions. Without rain and wind you dominate this beast. Congrats on a great PR and nearly gettin that sub 3.

Paul,

You really should be thrilled with your time. I am betting you will break 3 in your next marathon. When will you run another one? I am kind of a little sad the season is over and I don't know if I have another one before Boston on April 20th. Maybe we could get together and do a couple of long runs? I am joining the Runners Series today (9am signup) and I think I will do snow canyon on Nov 8th (half)

You have much to be proud of!!! Great job. Your sub three will come easily with out the rain and wind.

To PR on a day like that, only 2 weeks after TOU is impressive. What's your secret?

So close yet so far away. With out that nasty rain and wind you would have been way below that 3 hour mark. Great job!!! You ran a very strong race.

Josse, great job on this race. Terrible conditions and still a PR. That says a ton about you. Sub 3 will be no problem for you. keep training hard, just a matter of time.

Sorry paul, meant for Josse. DUH!!

You did an awesome job today, Paul! I am very impressed with how well you handled the conditions, and am absolutely confident that if we had had better weather, you would have destroyed that 3 hr barrier. Glad I could run with you for a few miles - sorry to have lost you when I had to fix my shoe.

Very nice race and time considering the conditions. You would have easily been under 3 hours if the conditions were normal. We can only try and that's what makes it fun..

Just realized I hadn't yet commented on your report and congratulated you on a terrific performance! Probabably worth a 2:55 under normal circumstances. You've improved dramatically the last couple of months, very inspiring to see! Wish I could have found you guys and hung with you for a while.

You would have destroyed that sub 3:00:00 goal the other day with decent conditions. Good run!

I'm still trying to figure out how to navigate around this site so I haven't found your race report yet. Andy said you cramped a little at the end and just missed 3 hours. That is too bad, you were running a great race and looked strong. It was good runnnig with you too.

What is the deal? My right calf isn't feeling the greatest. I went to step yesterday and was hurting a little after. That is the only thing that hurts on me. Way to grind out 8 miles though, you the man.

What is FIT class? How's your calf?

Thanks for the photo information, how did you find out about it? Keep up the good work, I think I need to do some strength & cross training too. Do you think you will do the Grand Slam again? What about Boston are you going to go? That would be cool to know someone else going.

Cool that you ran with your kids. My 9 year old son ran with me yesterday for the first time. It was great.

Good to get some xtraining in there. Hey do you normally do them at the same time your at the gym for your runs. Or you do 2 a days??

I try to run before I do my classes at the gym. Sometimes I do doubles and run later in the day at home, but usually I try to get my run in before class.

Good idea. I have been toying with getting another gym membership or just getting up in the morning and doing some workout at home. And continue running after work. Seems harder though to do a run and then have a good workout lifting. Great job though man.

8 miles and then an hour of weights!! Shnikeys!!

Nice!

Did you do Debbie's class or Ashli's? Good miles again.

I do the 6:00 with Debbie.

I lifted weights this morning also. It does feel good to get all those muscles I neglected for the past 3 weeks working again.

I neglected lifting for 2.5 months.

Paul, I notice while running with you that we have very similar body types. We are fit, but not way slender like many distance runners. I ran SGM at 160 lbs. A couple years ago I ran Boston at 152. That is the skinniest I've ever been since high school. It was too hard to maintain that weight though. I think I'd like to get down to 155 for Boston this year though. Do you have any thoughts on weight loss and running times?

Rhett, I agree that losing weight would be a significant benefit in lowering times, and even though it doesn't show, I actually lost some weight to get where I am at (I'd like to lose more). In fact, my physician friend is of the same thought, attributing his breaking 3 hours to his weight loss. I think one of the reasons high mileage helps so much, even if it is slower, is that it burns a bunch of calories and helps keep off excess weight. Your question is a good reminder to me of my need to be more thoughtful, after all, I just got done eating a handful of Reeces from the candy jar. Oh, well.

Hahaha. I love Reeces!

I agree with Teena--LOTS of running followed by LOTS of weights. You are definitely on the fast track, I'd say. Good job.

Ya I have heard alot about Boston being the convention of skinny people. I think everyone I have heard BQing have been lower in weight and so for that quest I will have to lose more. So would you guys say though that the weight places such a big part. How much harder has it been to not only eat balance getting the milage in and still lose the weight?? Whats been your keys to doing it?

I once read on Brent's blog that a pound less equals about 2 min. faster in the marathon. I have no clue about loosing weight, though. For the last week or so I've cut out all white flour and sugar and still managed to gain a pound. Geez! The key is probably running 4 hours a day. Honestly I'd rather be fat.

Well that is just it too. I think alot of what you might be seeing is water weight. I remember some of my first long runs of like 20 miles or so losing 10 pounds on it.

And then you hear about Mike Phelps the swimmer eating like tons of food and calories. There has just got to be a balance to do it right.

The hard part is eating enough to have energy to train hard, but still cutting calories. When I cut my weight way back to 152 (at one point in the training cycle I was at 148) my energy levels were to low to get in good quality runs. I think it is about when you eat. You need to fuel up a couple hours before your run and right after your run. The rest of the day is when you cut calories. It is way easier said than done and my body always wants to go back to about 160 to 163.

I'll put my 2 cents in. It is extremely hard to lose weight while doing any major race training. I want to drop around 5 pounds that have been hanging around and I've got to get it off before I go back into training mode. My body hangs on to every pound while I am training hard because I put such a demand on it. I don't think I can eat enough "healthy calories" in a day so I end up eating not so healthy to make up for it. I feel that is most peoples weight issue that run a lot. Not enough healthy food intake and too much crappy food or just not eating enough period. Our bodies go into starvation mode when we don't eat enough. Storing up fat for the long, cold winter.

Hauns-I am not your typical running build either. I tend to put on quite a bit of muscle. I look more like a sprinter but I do fine with distance. I think a little muscle helps us out. I do hear that people with more muscle mass cramp up more in marathons but that hasn't been an issue with me.

Here is a link to good (humorous) fat losing method from the 1930s:

http://www.sportsscientists.com/search/label/weight%20loss

taken from

http://15minutelunch.blogspot.com/2008/07/jovi-rocks-as-does-sylvia.html

Ya that is my problem for say too. I am losing muscle since I weigh 170-173 and have since the first of this yr I have stayed there the whole running season. If anything coming into my last big race. I felt overweight and I have been running alot of races and such. Maybe losing the weight before starting the serious training is key. Or just do what Rhett did and get sick and lose 15 pds and then just keep it off.

Geez Paul, you should count your step class as miles. I need to figure out how to change my heading thingy so I have cross training up there.

At least you accomplished something during that miserable 3 hours. I was so bummed I turned to eating. Now I have to run a bit more to work that off. The ice cream, peanuts, almonds, and triscuts, all in excessive amounts, sure were good though.

I will admit, my diet has been far less than stellar. I actually quit watching the game, except for an occasional check in, after halftime.

Wow, you look like 30 lbs lighter in the updated photo. Belated congrats on the marathon PR. You shooting for sub-3 next year?

I agree, you do look lighter and more fit in this picture. It's a shame the wind didn't ever let up at St. George or you would have been under 3 easy.

Besides sitting with a bunch of other half naked men in a steamy room and talking about yesterdays football games, what benifit do you think is gained by sitting in a steam room?

Well, I go early enought its not crowded, and I'm pretty anti-social with only a towel on.

Ironically you ask the benefits, I had read an article where a study was done with two control groups, same running program only difference was one group had steam room or sauna, don't remember. The group who did the steam room or sauna had improvements over the other.

Quick search turned up this: http://www.protraineronline.com/past/oct04/restandrecovery.cfm though it wasn't the article I saw, but its sort of similar.

Anyway, for specific running benefits, of course I think you are better off running longer, but sometimes its nice to steam. I do think it can help you train to handle high, humid temperatures.

It is also great for your skin. Which I'm sure you men care about so dearly:) Really though, it seems to help my lungs in the winter when the air is so dry here in Utah.

Man ... so many of you put in some good miles AND attend workout classes!! Pretty amazing.

Nice!

I read most of that Tinman training and it is basically what I have been doing on my own. Two speed days and one long day. I only do i easy day and then cross train the other two days, but I could be doing easy days those days as well. I like to keep it simple so I have come up with two tempo workouts (long and short), two speed workouts, and two long work outs that I rotate every week. My work outs are a little simpler than his, but the concept is the same. Let me know how it works for you.

Rhett,

How do you determine your paces?

McMillan gives a good general idea. Just plug in your marathon goal time and it gives workout paces. I mostly go by my race paces though. I try and do speed work around my 5k pace (6:00), my short/medium tempo runs (6-8miles) at 1/2 marathon pace (6:30) and my long tempo runs (10-14 miles) at marathon pace (6:52), and my long runs-- I rotate between progression runs where I start at 8 min miles and pick up the pace by 15 secs every two miles. I usually do that for 16 miles. The other week I just do a true long slow run that I run by what feels comfortable. It usually ranges between 7:30 and 8:00 sometimes on a hot day a bit slower. I usually do that for 20 miles.

I hope that helps a bit. When I'm not marathon training I do short tempo runs (3-4 miles) and do them at 10k pace 6:15-6:20. So knowing what your different race paces are can help in determining how fast to run.

Paul one finale thought, I thought abour while doing my easy run last night. When I do an easy run, it is realy easy. I try to be slower than 8:30 and some times I'm up in the 9's. I don't want my easy run to interfere with my important ones.

Rhett,

Thanks for your input. I, too, have been very good at making slow runs slow. I need to get more disciplined and actually plan and do specific workouts. I agree the 3 big workouts a week should be fine, provided I actually do them.

Last year all I really did was bump up my miles beginning at the end of July. My speed work consisted of one 5k time trial on the treadmill, one ward 5k, the marathon paced running (prior to bonking) during the actual marathons leading up to St. George and a few good sessions in the last month before SG. But, I did avoid injury!!

I think I'll try Tinman, including his CV pace intervals on one day, and his tempo on another. I do like your progression runs, which McMillan advocates.

Much better than nothing. You should be happy with the great effort. I don't think I would have made it through the one hour FIT class.

I hope you get feeling better soon.

You are sick because you have a twisted sense of humor!!! :)

Take a couple packets of Emergen-C and pray for forgiveness.

What do you thing of FIT? I did it every week when Jody first started teaching it (Long & Lean), but haven't done it in a long time. It isn't my fav.

My experience is that FIT classes seem to vary quite a bit, even week to week with the same instructor. Lately the classes have done a lot more integrated stuff like balancing on the Bosu while doing dynamic lifts and other exercises. I think they got some training from corporate and I have noticed significant changes from the Long & Lean days.

You are so busted Paul!!

Hmmm, I may have to try it again.

Nice workout already for the week. Keep it up man. Dang that is a good pace too.

Great job. How did the run feel?

Thanks. I'm struggling a bit with motivation so it was good to at least do a bit at Tinman tempo pace. The run felt fine, which Tinman pace is intended to feel easier than some other tempo paces.

Keep me posted on that Tinman Training. Good to hear that 7 min pace for 5.5 miles felt good.

Cool workout!! Nice job at St George this year! Mother Nature really tried to kill ya'll!

Paul thanks for your comment. I don’t think your training has been shabby at all. I am just trying to keep up the intensity to prep for Boston 176 days and counting. Usually I start taking it very easy this time of year and it wasn’t until five years ago that I even started running during the winter. I am trying to map out a few races to keep me on edge and I have decided on the painters half on Jan 17th and Moab ½ Canyon Lands March 21st ( I guess this one is a lottery) If you have any good suggestions for any others let me know.

Holy smoke!!

Did you dress in 80's tights, too?

I don't plan far enough ahead. I think next year I'll go as Richard Simmons -- maybe I can borrow your green shorts.

10 east? or 10 easy?? :)

Well, that was short and sweet (the post, not the miles:)

You ran 10 miles to the east? Did someone come and pick you up or did you do 10 more to the west? :)

Paul,

Where the heck are you?

Hope all is okay.

Sweating it out always seems to work for me. Hope you get feeling better soon.

Glad you're back at it. Hope you feel better.

Hey Sicko!

Hope you are feeling better. All the gunk seems to be going around. Got a few sickies at my house ... trying to avoid it at all costs!

Can't believe you run and do classes when you feel under the weather. Nice.

Been under the weather too. Not much fun but your gutting it out. What a animal. Keep it up man.

Paul ... hope you're still not sick.

Take care of yourself.

2 miles? that doesn't sound like you at all...

are you past your sickness yet?

You've been a "lost sheep" this past week. Good to hear your still alive and running:)

Where have you been Paul? Are you doing okay?

I'm glad you're alive and to know the reason for not posting was vacationing. I need one:)

Sounds like you are plugging along, keeping your base milage up. Are you planning on doing any racing any time soon? I just did a 5k last weekend, my next race will be Painter's 1/2 in Jan. if I do that one. If not, it culd be Feb or Mar before I race again.

Rhett --

I'm just barely staying fit, but its better than complete atrophy. I've not got any races planned. I should look into it, but will wait until after the holidays. My main goal is to avoid injury. My left calf, which really tightened up at SGM, is still a bit sore so I am sensitive to it.

I saw your 5K PR. Very good Job -- you beat me to sub 3:00 and to sub 19:00.

You know Paul, I have the same problem. I cut back mileage and rack up the calories. I made some yummy cookies on Monday and they are almost gone. You're probably thinking...5 kids, not a big deal. My kids didn't like them so I've eaten almost all of them.

Paul, I've been meaning to ask you, how come you don't run outside? You really should start joining the running group. We've got a great group going.

Yeah Paul, you should join the BBK's some time.

Seems like you get a class in most everyday. Is that just cause your not in marathon training, or do you do them when you are marathon training as well?

Ya I was noticing the same thing. You seem to hit the class more regualarly then in the big miles.

You are both right, I am not running nearly as much mileage right now, opting instead to cross train a bit with classes. I am looking for long-term variety and this helps. Last fall I dropped the classes for a while to increase my mileage (which paid dividends for running).

what is Strike class, like boxing or karate?

Cal,

Sort of like kick boxing karate crap, but includes weighted gloves, weighted bars and some jump roping.

Hmm sounds different. Hope you got a good workout.

"sort of like kick boxing karate crap" -- hmmm ... interesting.

Btw ... loved your vomit story!! Good times!!

Your gym has a ton of classes. I bet that is fun to do differnt work outs all the time.

Man Paul, your posts have sure been right to the point.

How are you? Hope you have enjoyed your long weekend.

Paul,

Are you running Boston this year? About how long until you start really training hard?

Family first. That is why I do so much of my running in the early morning hours before anyone is awake. Good job.

Yeah, family first. My mileage has dipped a ton because each gym class is about 8 miles I could have otherwise run, but its OK for cross training purposes. In addition, I've sort of slacked off a bit and am not doing any doubles in the evening and have missed some non-gym days. Oh, well, I'm not doing Boston so I'm just keeping some base.

Looks like a nice tempo run. Nothing wrong with 3 miles at that pace. Then you chased it with the FIT class. Nice way to end the week.

I would be on cloud nine if I could run 3 miles at a 6:40 pace.

You and all your classes!! AWESOME!!!

It's good to see that I'm not the only slacker:) Although, I'm slacking more than you. I hope I can get back at it soon but I have no drive right now:( Great job though, as always!

3 at 6:40 is pretty dang fast.

Paul, the class plus 5 "marathon pace" miles. Good job. I don't think for a second though that you would run 7:30 in a marathon if you went out and did it right now. I'm sure you would be much closer to 7:00.

Hey ... are you joing the pullup competition or what?

Come on!!

Teena,

I put a pic up for you of me doing some pull ups.

Love the moving picture. You are the Man!!!! LOL

We should post it on your blog -- It would be more credible. :)

Oh man!! That is some good stuff!! You are so manly!!

Hey, I'm impressed with the 4 pull ups. I can't pull my butt up once without assistance.

Your cracking me up with all the photos. Keep enteraining us.

Okay Paul ... so is your baseline 2? I'm putting it in. Let me know if it's something other than that.

Nice pics!

That's really something. I can't even do one pull-up. Do you think there's a connection between pull-up strength and running speed?

Cheryl,

I don't know that running speed and pull ups have a connection. I can't do much either. I'm just doing the pull ups to try to get a broader scope of fitness and to support the pull up challenge: http://teena.fastrunningblog.com/blog-11-28-2008.html

I'd say, do like Kathie and round up to 3.

None of the guys that I work with saw you at the gym on Friday and it is now driving me crazy trying to figure out who it was. What did he look like (not that it would make much of a difference because all Actuaries look the same).

OK, so what do you do in FIT class? Are you going to these classes cause the girl to guy ratio is like 20:1?

FIT (functionally integrated training) on the website states: "advanced, total body functional strength training class challenges your muscular endurance as well as balance and coordination by moving through all planes of motion with multi-joint and compound exercises."

I find it is sort of like a boot camp class or similar to workouts in those PX90 infomercials.

Today there were 27 in the class, 5 who were men, so the ratio is closer to 5:1, which is still not bad.

So ... what about the pullups Mr. Attorney??

Wow, that class does a lot for the body. Does it run the marathon for you too?

I'm still years behind you in general conditioning, but I'm trying to do stuff beyond running with a long term perspective. I can do plenty of push ups, but you can tell from my wussy 2 pull ups I've got a ways to go to improve my overall strength.

So Paul, I thought I'd mention that Ashli is doing a 1 1/2 hour step class on Wednesday at 8:30-10:00. It is travel step and is a blast and an awesome workout. Don't know if that's too late in the day for you but since it is a holiday...

Now that sounds like my kind of class. Dynamic stregth sounds a lot like plyometrics. That should really pay off making you a better runner.

All that plus a couple miles running. Nice workout.

The guy in the middle is hot!!

What are burpees?

(nice job on the 3!! Pullups stink!!)

I think you are ALWAYS 100%!

Some times you just need a rest. Enjoy.

Stinking car problems!!!!! Blaughghgh!! Hope the car and you are feeling better soon.

Great work out today. I think I might go to Jody's step tomorrow rather than my 9:00 class so I might just see you there.

Jody isn't teaching step class tomorrow as they have that funky holiday schedule.

Man, I am just having bad luck! Okay, so maybe next week.

Nice run. You were smokin' at the end!

5:30 pace?? Stink!!

BTW, I think you did Dana's class. She was next to me in step today. She is a cute girl. Very energetic.

Yeah, I've taken classes from Dana a number of times, including yesterday. Normally I don't go to the gym on Tuesdays or Thursdays, but with the kids on holiday I was able to.

Happy New Year Paul!