Wheeler Farm Loops

That's great about the hamstrings holding up.

We'll see how it feels this afternoon, but that's what ice is for in the meantime :-)

"3-4 hours of marathon running can never make you sufficiently dehydrated to be at risk for your health." amen to that.

interesting discussion on sodium/sweating -- output in sweat is determined by input from diet. salty eaters, not salty sweaters! this was really good. thanks for the link.

I thought that was very interesting as well, and backed up by real research. So in most cases, "salty sweaters" are simply taking in more salt than they need. When they do those sweat rate/type studies (like at the Gatorade Institute) they should really be tracking overall food intake for several days leading up to the test. Maybe they are.

I was also intrigued by his quick point about cramping - if cramps were due to electrolyte imbalance, your whole body would seize up. Its more of a nervous system protective mechanism for injured tissue. Fascinating.

I have Waterlogged sitting in my Amazon cart... I'm a bit scared of how long it is!

So I haven't listened to this yet but Jake told me a little about it.

Even though you can't get dehydrated enough in a race to risk health, STILL there have to be some benefits to hydrating a little and taking in some calories, right?!

Salt just flat works for me. At the same time I whole-heartedly agree that in general we're over-hydrating.

Yeah, he's not saying "get really dehydrated and starve yourself" but he is pointing out that we wayyyyyy overdo it. As he points out, there is no place with an over-ABUNDANCE of water like a marathon!

He makes the point that you can train yourself to perform perfectly fine in the marathon w/ little to no carbohydrate or fluids. The Africans are a perfect example of how (in good weather conditions) that its *possible*. Obviously that's not for everyone and running a marathon in 2:10 is different that what normal people experience. And if you take drinks/gels in training and then don't do it in racing, you'll tank.

You'll have to just listen to it. I think he presents the subject in a way that isn't black or white, which is the opposite of how most people like to address this issue.

Well that's the other thing, Kendall... we are highly individual creatures. If something works well for you, you don't second guess it too much... just do it! Ugh, I hate using the nike catchphrase. Minus 200 Saucony points.

Running a 2:10 with no carbs/water seems to me like a totally different situation than running 2:20, 2:45, 3 hours for the marathon.

When I stop for water in the Albion Basin campground it's not usually because I'm thirsty. I just want to stop and it gives me an excuse aside from being wimpy.

The big take-away is to listen to your thirst and hunger/taste senses. They are a heck of a lot smarter then we give them credit for.

Yes, thank you Chad. That's the main point.

I don't want to turn this into a big debate... I have a 5K marathon to focus on :-)

@Jake "No shoes for you!"

let's take everything to the EXXXXXTREME!!!!

OK. I just listened to the whole thing.

So basically I didn't need to drink at all eight water stops along the Gary Bjorklund Half course on a cloudy, 50 degree day.

You really only needed 6 or 7 stops.

Noakes is getting very into paleo-type stuff. I had to stop following him on twitter because of it. I can only take so much.

But you are essentially a Paleo Jake!

That book is on my gigantor to read list. I think I may be guilty of over-hydration, but I get so darned thirsty. I wonder if my electrolytes are getting wonky and my body confuses it as thirst. All I know is that when I use beer to hydrate after a "hard" workout I get a migraine the next day. Weird.

I generally like the paleo diet and I would follow it more if I weren't an endurance athlete. I have been trying to get more of my carbs from fruits and vegetables and less from grains and pasta. Can't imagine ditching my pre marathon spaghetti though.

Its like we were talking about last week when running w/ the team... people love to gravitate towards the extremes with these kinds of subjects... but if you take 80% of the idea, and live in some sort of moderation, you're likely to develop healthy habits that will last.

Good thing pizza isn't a carb. Right?

Whoa, whoa, whoa pizza not a carb!? :)

I guess I'll add one more qualification / disclaimer about my thoughts... just because something isn't detrimental to your health, that doesn't mean it is optimal for performance. So while I can easily go out and run a fairly hard 24 miler with nothing to drink, my performance in a marathon race might lose a percentage point or two by applying the "take nothing" approach in a race. And 1% (or less) can be the difference between champ and chump. There's also a ton of good research showing how simple things like the "carb drink rinse" can really make a difference in performance.

Wait, why are you listening to TRN?

I skipped half that podcast cause I just couldn't hear with the bad sound and accent. But I've read long summaries of the book. I'm still going to pound 30 oz of water an hour and take sodium during my summer ultras.