Of Mice and Marathons

In years past I always loved racing a hard half 3 weeks out. I always mixed it in with my last long run. 3-4 miles to warm. Hard half. 3-4 miles to cool for 20 to 21 for the day. I think the overall key though is to properly recover afterwards.

Thanks, Ben. Just making sure I'm not doing too much. I typically do a workout on Friday after a hard half (much sooner and it doesn't go well), but I think I will skip that weekday workout and just do my last 18 miler the next weekend.

You said what I was just going to suggest! :-)

You are in that rare/awesome situation where PRing in the 5K, Marathon and anything in between is all on the table right now. Let it rip... but then let yourself recover. Don't try to squeeze anything extra (or something pre-planned) into that week. Give yourself 5-6 days of easy mileage... soak in the hard effort and then let it rip again a couple weeks later.

The no workouts until at least Friday rule was created based on one of our longish conversations. It took me two horrible tempos on Wednesdays late in a buildup after a hard half to learn that though.

I've written it into my list of running imperatives called "Thing Jason Should Never Do."

I think if we get solid weather I should be able to run a good PR in the half. I missed my chance this spring (wasn't in that good shape) and I missed last fall with a humid day and then an ill-chosen bike path/trail race half.

Yeah, I think it boils down to "what am I getting out of another workout other than checking a box and delaying recovery"? And that's a hard question to answer!

A solid half will build confidence. You are rolling right now, so ride the momentum.

Jake, so you don't think if he races a half (flat out) three weeks before his 'A' marathon, it will impact negatively on the marathon?

I get what your saying about PRing from 5k up 1000miles but it's rare - from what I've witnessed - for somebody to be in good half shape (if they're going to run a decent marathon)3 weeks out from a marathon; it just doesn't tally in terms of the energy systems. plus, to smash up a half 3 weeks before a full will defo leave residual microtrauma, especially if he's going to run 18 miles a week after.

But I guess time will tell...

I guess it could go either way...

To be honest, my advice probably comes more from the "have fun and run hard when you feel like it" philosophy that I currently follow more than the "follow sound physiological principles" philosophy that I used to (unsuccessfully) attempt to follow.

Ultimately whichever way you decide to go, Jason, don't second guess it.

That makes sense, Jake. And, Jason probably will PR over the half and the marathon, which would be a great 'takeaway' from this block of excellent training.

It's just that I think he'd 'walk away' with a substantially better PR if he were to do his hardest session - something around MP (20 miles with 16 miles @ 10 secs slower than mp) - this weekend (4 weeks out) and then next weekend, when he plans to do the half, run it as a training run only 10-15 secs faster than mp - with a decent warm up and cool down. This would create the 'energy funnel' - his body would want/need to run at mp over the full distance - if he were to get the fuelling and pacing right; also, he could enjoy it too:)

John: I should write a longer response but for now I hope it doesn't seem that I didn't like your advice so I shopped around elsewhere. I was primarily looking to see if folks might say "I ran well but think it compromised my effort." I hope you know I value your advice and take it to heart. I feel this might seem a bit of a slight.

I don't think I could hold to fast MP plan in a half. It's too hard for me not to race. It's a cutback week as well. As for the 18 miles two weeks out, it could be 16-17. Last year I bumped it to 18 from my typical 16, mostly for mental reasons.

My half PRs are usually off marathon training as are my 5k PRs. September was really marathon specific. 50 marathon pace miles! That's a ton, given 35 is probably a previous normal. I think I've got enough marathon specific stuff in Oct too. I was tired at 21 miles last weekend but I was still running close to MP and could have gone on. I think my consistent long runs will get me though. I really focused on getting them every week. Time will tell I suppose.

Jason, not at all - I think you're right to ask around and listen to what others have to say. I do that all the time.

I think you'll be fine racing the half 3 weeks out: you've a great mix in this block of training.

I suppose maybe where I'm coming from is that my approach is different to many on here in that the guys I look after tend to have a specific 'A' goal and everything is geared towards that from 6-12 months out - nothing gets in the way/compromises the 'A' race.

I was reluctant to give advice when you asked - I knew you'd want to hammer the half. But don't let my thoughts impact your plans. You're in great shape and all things being equal, you'll run well in both races. If I could place a bet - I'd bet on 2 good PR's:)