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December 21, 2024

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Location:

North Salt Lake,UT,

Member Since:

Dec 12, 2007

Gender:

Male

Goal Type:

Olympic Trials Qualifier

Running Accomplishments:

1500m - 3:59.9h (2014)

5000m - 14:53.45 (Portland Track Festival 2014)

8k XC - 25:09 (Sundodger 2011)

10k XC - 31:31 (WWU Invite 2011)

HM - 1:10:19 (Houston 2018)

Marathon - 2:28:39 (Houston 2019)

Long-Term Running Goals:

Olympic Trials Qualifier

Personal:

Married, working, training. While my wife has nixed all future attempts to grow glorious mustaches, she has been supportive of my crazy running dreams. Life is good.

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Miles:This week: 0.00 Month: 0.00 Year: 35.40
Mizuno Ekiden Lifetime Miles: 274.65
Flyknit Streaks Lifetime Miles: 419.25
Flyknit VFs Lifetime Miles: 80.50
Ride 14 Lifetime Miles: 652.85
Ride 15 Lifetime Miles: 278.70
Ride 15 X2 Lifetime Miles: 53.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
4.000.000.000.004.00

I went to do my track workout on Friday, and discovered that the soreness in my left calf has turned itself into an injury. I got through one lap at 3:00 1k pace and had to stop.

I've been icing it like crazy, and it is doing better today. I might try a short run this evening.

 

PM - Ran a very easy 4 miles.... absolutely no pain in the calf. There is a little bit of stiffness, but this did not get worse during or after the run. A very good sign.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From Phoenix on Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 21:36:11

Be very careful here. Get some deep tissue work and keep your runs EASY until your sure its safe to go harder.

Tempos first, 5k pace next, 3k pace, etc. Going straight to 3:00 1ks was a little agressive.

Also, avoid "extreme" workouts. Because of your ability, you completed that 4 x 1600 workout, but you weren't ready for it structurally. Avoid the need to reassure yourself of your fitness during every workout.

A big mistake people make is over-reliance on special workouts. You've got to cover your bases with work at different speeds, but if you are aiming for an 8:45 3k, then start working specifically for that right now (as in when your calf will let you). You need to do one of these every 2 weeks. Cover 3k at 8:45 pace in interval format with minimal recovery. You might start at 8 x 400 in 70 with 30-45 seconds recovery. After you get through 8 x 400 in 70 with 30s or less recovery, maybe move to 4 x 800 w/ 2 minutes, then 3 x 1k in 2:55 with 3 minutes, and finally 2 x 1600 in 4:40 w/ 4 minutes (or 8 x 400 in 70 w/ 10 sec recovery). It doesn't have to be exactly like this, but you get the idea. This race-specific workout is your hardest workout of the week and should be 9/10--meaning not a 10/10. The workout needs to remain at 9 so you have one more stop to pull out during the real race to complete the whole distance continuously.

The other workouts, 4 x 400, 3 x 1600, 6 x 800, tempos, etc., should be run more by feel then anything. To avoid injury with speed like 4 x 400, don't aim for a certain time, just run a 400 hard but relaxed. Wait 5-8 minutes and run another. You might be done after 2, you might make it through 4. You're done when it would take a herculean effort to match or exceed the time of the last rep.

Overall, aim for three workouts a week, one is a 7/10, another 8/10, and your hardest one, which is race-specific every other week, is a 9/10. Its imperative that you are honest with yourself on the effort you are putting into your workouts. If you start cranking out multiple 8s and 9s each week you will go stale, will be overtrained, and will probably get injured. After several months with this format, go back to base and strides for 6-8 weeks to integrate your fitness gains into your foundation, then start the interval training again and you'll reach a slightly higher peak. Gradually increase your mileage over the years. Repeat ad infinitum. This is about as good as a drug free runner can do.

On the long run, they have a long incubation time. Right now they will only make you slower as you try to tune your legs and nervous system to run 70 second quarters. Long runs done in the late summer and early fall could help you now, but not for sure. Within 8 weeks they are useless for people at your mileage level.

Overall, aim for unbroken consistency over many months and you will succeed.

From tyler on Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 15:55:10

I really appreciate your post, Phoenix.

A few thoughts/questions:

1. I have a very short window of opportunity. With my target race in about 9 weeks, don't I have to be a little aggressive? Obviously doing the first workout in spikes was a bad idea, but to have a shot, isn't it necessary to push it?

2. It was spikes and tight turns that injured my calf, but running straight in flats should be much gentler on them. I'm thinking that I should do a 4 or 5 mile tempo on Saturday - I'm confident that 5:30 pace won't re-injure the calf. Keeping in mind my time frame, do you see this as too aggressive?

From Phoenix on Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 20:34:38

I agree that you need to be aggressive, but you have be smart aggressive.

I think a tempo run could be good idea. There are good workouts and bad workouts. But, usually the goodness or badness of a certain workout is determined by the context of the training system it falls within.

Meaning, how does this tempo run fit in to your immediate training plans? What comes next? What is the big picture here?

If you do decide to do a tempo, I would limit it to 20 minutes. Long tempos have their place, but given your injury status, the proximity of your target race(s), and the fact that you are training for a 3k, not a 10k, let alone a marathon, 20 minutes is sufficient. Daniels believes (and has the data to back it up) that the training effect of going beyond 20 minutes is strictly limited to gains in endurance and not speed. I generally concur. For the marathon you need long tempos because of the endurance component but they are not going to make you FASTER over 3k within a 9 week window. The last few minutes of a tempo run might be a good time to test your calf by picking up the pace just a little bit. Just be honest with yourself about how you feel.

For emphasis, tempo runs will not get you to an 8:45 3k (yet). The race-specific workouts will. The big benefits of the tempo runs (and fast speed) is that they prepare you to do the race-specific work.

So, when you are thinking about how to train you need to figure out 3 things, 1) the goal, 2) a systematic progression of goal-pace workouts, and 3) support system workouts.

The goal is obviously your big target race(s). Goal pace workouts are workouts run at goal pace and often but not always race distance (over 10k I would not advise going full race distance). Support system workouts are speed, tempos, etc, and their primary purpose is to give you the tools you need to do the goal pace workouts. The pace of support system workouts is also more subjective and based on feel (vs the goal pace workouts when you need to become a human metronome that is immune to discomfort).

As for the tempo being too aggressive, only you can answer that depending upon how you feel. If you decide to proceed, I would advising warming-up very, very well and not forcing the pace. 5:30 pace is a nice number, but don't get fixated on it. If you feel relaxed and in the zone at 5:37.2 pace, I doubt your training will suffer if you decide to stay there. The other thing to consider is that waiting 3-4 days before any fast work isn't going to cost you a lot compared to re-injury.

From tyler on Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 16:19:56

Thanks again, this is very helpful. Where did you run in college?

From Phoenix on Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 09:41:28

I ran at BYU from 97 to 01. Like to you are trying to do, I walked-on, and overall had a pretty good experience, but one filled with its share of frustration (mostly self-inflicted), some of which I'm trying to help you avoid.

Since then, I've earned a PhD and worked in two of the top exercise physiology/biochemistry labs in the country. I've also done my fair share of coaching and helped many run faster than they ever thought possible. I do not have the time now for detailed coaching, but as I said in the other post, I'm happy to try and answer any questions you might have. You might get some ideas from my training, but as a disclaimer, I tend to experiment a little more. Overall though, it reflects what I have learned.

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