overtaking haynes

I have also noticed how much my feet hurt after a long technical trail run. And the hurt also seems to build up over several days of technical trails. I am glad I am not the only one. And that is with your montrails? At least its not just because I run trails in road shoes.

also, recovery from a marathon is supposed to be 5 weeks. i should only be running 30mpw this week. ha! advanced marathoning looks pretty good. the thing to do differently is have lots of shorter 6 mile runs but with much longer 15 and 20 milers mixed in the week. there's a program specifically in the book for people who will max out at 70 and then there's a 93 one. they also have the recovery week you talked about.

Despite the sense that stress/recover/repeat makes, I think that running 10-15 miles is just as good or better for fitness than running 20 miles. The book again to carthage makes this point and Denton only has cassidy do like 4 20+ milers in his 3 years of training. But he did 13-15 milers every day. I think of it like 200 repeats for the mile. If you get 2-3 in fairly close to the race, you will be in the zone for the race. Doing 20 milers is also more likely to injure you or catch you without glycogen or food. And in this kind of heat it even harder.

5 week recovery for a marathon... I just don't buy it. After 2 weeks I feel 100% even with decent volume.

I think pfitzinger is also one of they guys who swears by doing long runs without food to train your body to use more fat. But there is no scientific data to support it. Sure, it makes sense, but is it even a good thing? I think that it would be better to just have enough carbs (by taking gels during the race) to not need much fat burning. And hitting the wall in training is bad for fitness in my opinion.

Ok, im gonna go get this stupid book...

i can't believe you're drawing workout strategies from again to carthage...it's not the same as once a runner, the workouts in there are stellar. i'm going to change my workout strategy starting next week. we'll see in oct whose workouts paid off.

I do agree that specializing each day to a different purpose and stress level is good. But that doesn't necessarily extend to miles. Sometimes it does. But at 70 miles per week a 6 mile easy day differentiates the stress level too much in my opinion. Think about it. Sunday long run 20 miles, monday 6 miles, tuesday track workout totaling 9 miles, wednesday 6 miles, thursday tempo run totaling 8 miles, friday 6 miles, saturday 10 miles makes 65. So I guess you could add those 5 miles on to the warmup/cooldown of the track workout or tempo run but often I hurt too much from those workouts to do much more. Just check out daniels stress level charts. Running at tempo pace is several times as stressful as easy pace and VO2max program is about twice as stressful as that. So stress level can vary quite a bit day to day doing 8-10 miles per day depending on how long your long run is that week. I like the idea of a semi-long run, but that means sacrificing either the tempo run or VO2max workout, which I refuse to do very often. The marathon training workouts in daniels like 20 miles with 5 miles at marathon pace, 1 at threshold, 5 easy, 1 at threshold, 5 at marathon pace, 3 easy. I don't think that many people can do that as a workout at the correct paces. I think its too hard.

pfitzinger is all about increasing the lactate threshold...and pure endurance. he thinks v02 max workouts should be used sparingly and aren't nearly as important because they tire you out too much. pfitzinger got to 2:11 in the marathon. what about daniels? i think the point he's making is that you need to be able to put in quality long runs at only 10% slower than marathon pace almost every other day and you need not to be wiped out by v02 workouts which tire you out for days. you're a miler and not a marathoner so i understand which is why i will crush you at the cape :) if i start training properly that is....