Hills for breakfast, hold the gnats

Welcome to the blog. We have 5 (almost 6) children and also homeschool.

GReat running! Welcome to the blog! Way to go!

Welcome to the blog! That is a short rest time, I have noticed on my speed work and tempo runs when I decrease the rest time its a bit harder but my speed stays more consistant. When I use longer rests my speed is always faster on my first few and gradually slows down. Keep up the great work.

Thanks for the welcome, everyone! Enjoying having a place to share my running obsession! :)

its ok- and this run still was a great workout and will make your next run seem really easy. Everyone has these days... just dont dwell on it! You said it yourself- high humidity etc.. you did all you could do to reverse the crappiness of the run. At least you tried and fought through it. Congrats! I had a horrible horrible horrible 1/2 marathon a weeks back. It was so bad I could not get it out of my mind. So, 3 weeks later I ran another, and rocked it - so I can stop focusing on the bad run, and know that it was still great training.

Don't feel too badly....the weather her in WA is unusual right now and knocked me for a loop on a simple long run yesterday. I'd even just come back from 2 weeks in the heat and humidity of VA but today and yesterday seem worse here.

Good luck in Portland....it kicked my tail last year and I wound up running Seattle to soothe my ruffled feathers!

Thanks for the encouragements!

Nice to have another Snoqualmian on the blog. Pretty unlikely.

I saw your blog on Leslie's, and even though I am a "younger" runner, these older ladies still kick my bum!!! What a nice run today!! If you think you need shoes, I would go get them! Worn shoes can cause all sorts of injuries.

I will be at Portland this year:) Hope to see you there!!! My main goal is to beat my pr 5:36 (easy- but I'd really love to break 5hrs)

Thanks Laurie! I hope you reach your goals at Portland. How is your training going? Oops, I guess I can go look at your blog and see, eh? lol I'm hoping to get new shoes very soon. :)

I'm glad were not reading a report about a runner hit by a car right now! I'm glad you were defensive and kept yourself safe! Yesterday while I was running with 4 little girls on bikes around me a truck for a construction company came by us. The driver was SO careful and patient with us that I called the number on the back of the truck to report his safe driving! It was a nice change of pace to have someone in a vehicle treating us so respectful! If only all drivers could act that way!

I'm glad the rest was a nice summer rain run!

Thanks, Kim. Although I have been "nearly" hit by cars many times, I can always see and hear them coming so it's an annoyance more than a danger. But it's the KIDS I worry about. Riding along on their bikes they are in their own little world. I have said (yelled actually) this to many drivers: "what if I had been a kid on a bike? You talk about late to work -- how would running over a child affect your day?" So glad you had that good experience with the truck driver. I'm going to think about that instead to shake this anger off.

Have a great day!

Hi! Thanks for the encouragement about my placing in my AG. It was a really small race, but hey I gotta take the victory any way I can ;) Sorry to hear about your experience today it is amazing how drivers barely pay attention sometimes. I too worry about my kids on their bikes, because I know how "attentive" some drivers are.

Get a second pair and rotate them so you don't run in the same shoes each day. Better yet, get a third and rotate between each of them. They'll all last a bit longer that way since the support/cushioning will have time to recover between runs.

I've got the problem with all my routes being hills too. I'm going on the theory that it's the effort that's important, not the actual speed, so once you get your Tempo effort dialed in, you just take whichever pace you get on the hills. Not sure I could handle running a .3 mi loop over and over. Then again, not sure my theory holds water so take it for what it's worth.

Good workout any way you look at it.

Thanks so much for the encouragement. And just to set the record straight, my little flat place is .3 in each direction, so it's not quite as monotonous as all that. I really appreciated your thoughts about tempo pacing, and shoes. Cheers.

I love it when that happens! Here's hoping it lasts for a few more days at least ;).

Nice run to start the week.

Nice run! I have my first 18 miler this week so I came over here to get inspiration from you :).

And thanks for the extra support.

Hello there, Yes it is our little boy that is keeping us awake at night. We are trying different methods, but so far no luck. What happens is that I usually take care of him at night time, because I perform better at work than my wife is little sleep. My wife usually gets sick and very stressed out when she doesn't sleep enough, so that is why I don't usually get much sleep.

Tom and I have that book. He has read it more thoroughly than I have. We are actually following the training plans outlined in there.

I like running in fog too! It's kind of a strange sensation. You probably see more of it than I do. Low 50's seems quite cool for this time of year. It was rather warm for us this morning. But I'm not going to complain about that because I know what is coming just around the corner....brrrrrr!

Way to get the 8+ miles in, plus the abs and weights!

I've read that book too. I liked the propriceptive queues he outlines the most and have tried to use them in my running. I actually feel like they've helped.

Nice mileage this week Snoqualmie. You're going to acheive your goals easily with the way you're training.

That book sounds interesting. The theme sounds a lot like what Sasha frequently blogs about.

Perfect running weather! I am jealous!

Kelli- your cool is coming I promise. ;) Honestly I don't know how you all in UT run in summer.

JD- thanks so much for the encouragement. I don't know when achieving a goal like this has ever meant more to me. I get all teary just imagining it. But I have many doubts.

I have the book and have communicated with him via e-mail. My thoughts. He is grasping something on the theoretical level that many coaches and exercise physiologists still do not understand - the fatigue element always involves the brain. Lactic acid, lack of fuel, overheating, dehydration, etc alone cannot make the body slow down - the brain at some point becomes unable to push the body any further possibly in response to the signals of distress from the body.

However, as far as a practical application of this understanding is concerned, he is just as clueless as the rest of us. Nobody I've heard of has yet figured out how to make the brain more robust. Training plans are reasonable, but not revolutionary. The book could very well do without them except it would not sell because your average runner demands a training schedule.

I like your thought about going around and around the track and knitting. My mom taught me how to knit when I was a kid, but I never did much of it, so now I don't remember how. But in my adult life I have become a quilter. I sometimes do hand quilting and people are stunned by the monotony and slow pace of it. I guess I like slow repetitive things.

I haven't run enough races to comment on your "broken pencil" theory. I did have one 5K with a really bad "broken pencil" experience and a terrible time, so I guess it happens. I don't know any way around it.

No need to be apprehensive about your PR ability. Sasha has a knack for predicting people's PR's based on their training and previous PR's. Send him a message or post a question on the forum, he'll be happy to help you not feel so mysterious about your abilities.

I think I could get addicted to knitting too...I love crocheting...although I don't do it as often as I did when had fewer children...someday :)

Another good run!

On the subject of the arm swing, I think part of the energy comes from the arms acting as a counter balance to what the legs are doing, if that makes any sense. I know that if I tried to run without swinging my arms it would be counter productive. Also I wouldlook goofy like that girl who worked in Elaine's office on Seinfeld. (If you're not a Seinfeld fan, please disregard that last sentence).

You crack me up, JD. Thx as always for the encouragement. :)S

Train the brain!

Have fun with the family!

Good run! You are way more prepared for your upcoming marathon than I am for mine... Its good to know you only have one more long run for training left! Great feeling.

How did you like the Portland Marathon? I am thinking of doing it this year. (I know its in a month, so I gotta decide soon!)

Thanks for the encouragement! I like Portland very much. I've run it twice. Very well organized, lots of variety in the course, good bands along the way, nice shirt and medal, and big enough to draft on folks when you need to but not so big that you can't get going soon after the gun. Best wishes with your training.

Sounds like a good plan. Given your recent training, if you maintain a 9:20 pace up to the last 6 miles or so, you should have plenty of energy to either keep that pace to the end or even speed up the last couple of miles if needed. You've trained really smart it looks like and have every reason to be confident going into the taper phase and then the marathon itself. Keep it up!

Thanks for the welcome! I'm embarking on running my first marathon and already I am thinking about a long term goal of qualifying for Boston. Maybe in 15 years or so :). Good luck to you!

You plan looks good. Whatever you do, save some for the 2nd half...the hill to the bridge at mi 17 took quite a lot of effort and shortly thereafter I hit the wall.....hard. Your plan is sound. Walking the water stations makes sense (I did that for a couple at Portland) and your pacing estimates seem conservative, so you should be in good shape. Just take the hill up to the bridge at whatever pace doesn't completely wear you out and you'll regain the time back on the last few miles when you finish strong!

The concern I have is that you do not have any reliable tell tale indicators of your fitness. You've run a few tempos, but it is hard to tell much from that. If you ran a race even as short as a 5 K on a certified course it would be helpful. A longer race would be even more helpful. Mile by mile splits during the race with a description of how you felt would provide more clues.

If you are unable to race prior to the marathon, then the best plan would be to forget the time goal and just run by feel. At the start of any race you always have a potential within you to run a certain time. If you run right, you will run that time. If you don't you will run slower. You cannot run faster than that time by setting a goal no matter how motivated you are about it. You must be willing to adjust your expectations as the race develops and not worry if that goal is slipping away. At the same time, you must be prepared for the scenario when your goal happens to be too low, your body can do more. If so, your body will communicate. Listen to your body throughout the race and keep fine-tuning your race plan. Monitor your mile splits, but do so more for observation and setting micro goals. Do not panic and drastically adjust the pace if a mile split happens to be too fast or too slow. E.g you ran mile 13 in 9:05. Your body is telling you it is a tad too fast. Set a goal to run mile 14 in 9:10. Suppose it is 9:12 and it feels perfect even though you missed your goal of 9:10. Then set a goal to maintain that average for the next 3 miles, then re-evaluate. Be prepared to have to set "disappointing" goals - disasters are much more common in marathons than miracles, and most of the time disasters happen from being overambitious and not being willing to take a time that is a few minutes slower than your original goal. Then you end up taking a time that is 15-20 minutes slower instead of only 5.

One thing you can do, though, is practice drinking on a run so you do not have to walk through water stations. No need to waste the time and lose the momentum.

Thanks very much for the comments Sasha. It's very helpful. Cheers.

If you don't mind my asking, how early do you typically go out for your runs? I'm really struggling to get to work on time with running in the morning after I drop my son off at 6:00. I'm trying to decide if I can manage to get out earlier.

Today I got out the door at 5 am. The hardest part is getting to bed early enough. When my alarm goes off I have a mantra: "don't think - just move." If I start to think, or even to mentally deliver a motivational speech composed the night before, my left brain will out-rationalize me in about 20 seconds and I'll be back in bed. Don't think. Sit up. Get up. Within 10-15 minutes I will be human again and be glad to greet the day's run.

My alarm went off at 5 this morning because I was going to do some resistance training before taking my son to school and then run afterwards. But I reset the alarm for 5:30 and had to skip the resistance training.

If I go out at 5, which I think is maybe doable, I'll have to make my husband drive the boy because I probably won't be back in time, but that could be a good thing. I should make him get up and going.

I remember you posting about a headlight one time. What other special equipment do you use for your early morning dark runs?

Hey at least you got out the door. My alarm went off at 5:30 and next thing I know it's 6:30 and I'm late for everything...no run this morning. I'll have to make it up this afternoon!

I like your mantra "don't think-just move" I'll try it out tommorrow.

Carolyn - I carry: cell phone, digital voice recorder (for all those great running-induced ideas), pepper spray, handkerchief, and key. Rare occasion: iPod.

JD - Sorry to hear about your sleep-in. I call that brain sabotage when it happens to me. If I give my brain the tiniest chance, it will keep me in bed. Good luck.

Way to go on the easy run today! It sounds fabulous! I love the stars and the pre-dawn! And I would love to see the mama raccoon with her 2 babies! And on top of all the fun nature you got 5+ miles on the day! Great job!

Seeing a mama racoon and her babies sounds more pleasant than my four coyotes, but I suppose the mama could get agressive if she felt that her babies were in danger.

I also didn't sleep well last night. We had the windows open and it got colder than it has been recently.

If you got out at 5:00 this morning, we would have been running at about the same time because I got out at 6:00 and I'm one time zone ahead of you.

Nice workout Snoqualmie!

Maybe this is a stupid question from a beginner, but how do you know what your LT pace is?

Carolyn, I've been struggling with that question for a long time. I've heard that it's "comfortably hard," or "the fastest pace you can maintain for an hour," or "your 10K pace plus x number of seconds..." The list goes on and on. If I use all those numbers and also use the chart in Jack Daniels' Running Formula book, I get a range of times that are centered around 9:00-9:10. So that's what I think it is for me. But just in the last month, as I've been doing more LT runs, 9:00-9:10 feels a little too easy sometimes. Maybe I've pushed it back? :)

A couple of links if you're interested:

http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=12686

http://www.berkshiresports.org/index.php?ID=lactatethreshold

http://www.pfitzinger.com/marathontraining.shtml

Nice workout! And thanks for the links too :)

Thanks for the information. It boggles my mind a little bit. How much do I need to build endurance by maintaining a slow pace and increasing my miles before I start thinking about this kind of stuff?

Nice running this week. Sounds like you're in a good place, both geographically and running-ly.

Have a great day.

I know what you mean about the upcoming weather....I really don't like the days where the winds blow hard around here because it's usually mixed with rain and occasional hail, and I'm always fearful that I'm going to get taken out by a tree-limb that comes crashing down onto the roadway (I've had some come too close for comfort before). But I keep reminding myself of the summer days where it was so hot out running that I longed for the cooler temps, even if there was some rain mixed in, since I can always add layers to stay warm but keeping cool I will only go so far.

Maybe all the new runners are runners that suddenly have a new schedule to keep....getting kids off to school. School started Wednesday here and I already encountered my first "scheduling conflict" yesterday down at the track. Wouldn't be surprised if this is throwing a wrench into some running schedules.

You probably shouldn't feel too fresh 4 weeks out.....you'll get that freshness back in your taper and be ready to tackle Portland in a few weeks!

Great job this week. You are putting in some great miles. Our marathon's are just one day apart. I can't wait to see how you do.

I haven't done a full 'thon yet, but I totally get that when I run any race. It seems almost impossible to keep the pace for the whole distance, somehow it works out though :).

Great job on the workout, looks like you got a nice mental workout too ;)

I'm the same way. The hardest thing is to trust in your training, especially during the heaviest loads where, at times, you don't feel like you're performing particularly well. BUT you should trust in your training. With a few more weeks and your taper, you'll be ready to go.

Wow! Excellent workout. Whenever I have a particularly tough time during a run, I remind myself that it always pays off later.

You have been putting in some quality training. Truly inspiring!

Thanks for all the encouragement, everyone. It really does help and mean a lot to me.

I guess today was just the day for an uneventful easy run. Good job.

thanks for the diet advice! i think you are right about the carbs and i know i need more fresh veggies for sure. C

I take it you had an unpleasant dog experience this morning?

I'm impressed with how you keep running, even with "dead legs". I'm trying to be like you.

There was a farmer, had a dog, and Bingo was his name... and he was not on leash...

Oh that's funny! I have dogs, been around them all my life, but I still get a little freaked out when I come across a dog on the loose, especially when I'm running. Hopefully Karma will deliver your message to the dog owner soon, before that innocent dog gets hurt.

ha ha ha -- nicely done! I know what you mean. Even though I have two dogs, and they are pretty good dogs, I keep them on a lease unless it is a designated "leash-free" zone - not everyone is a dog lover.

Very smart run! knowing when to adapt your run to how you feel is a great way to consistent running (which is, in my opinion, the most important key to success: 'making it to the starting line healthy')! You are going to do well next month, I can feel it!!

I'm with you on your random thought for the day. Did you record this random thought on your voice recorder while you were running this morning?

Where would be if we all just gave up on anything that we would never be the absolute best at? I guess we'd all just stay home and do nothing.

Hear hear! True with non sport pursuits as well. I'm a singer/songwriter, and I know I'll never go beyond just playing open mics and small local venues, but I get so much out of it that it doesn't matter. It enriches one's lifes and adds texture to the living experience. "Life is short, but it's wide..."

Carolyn - I use my voice recorder more for stuff like "Don't forget to call Amy back." My random thoughts take miles to mull over completely. And sometimes I write them down in the blog. I rarely run with the iPod anymore, partly for safety (it's dark) and partly because I am a day dreamer.

JD - Ah! A fellow musician! Running is great for one's creativity, don't you think?

Oh yeah running is great for the mind in so many ways, keeps the creative juices flowing!

Hmmm, that is a thought to ponder. That is a very good perspective. Thanks so much for sharing!

BTW, I need to pick up a head lamp. Any suggestions on what to look for?

I love your attitude!

I will always be towards the back of the pack, but so what, I'm enjoying every (mostly, hehe) minute of it!

As I was reading your thoughts I was thinking "here here!" but JD beat me to it as a comment. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

I just ran across your blog, what a great posting!! I loved it! I am not fast, I have run for 12 years, and LOVE it! I feel good about my times as they are, it is fun to feel a sense of accomplishment even though I am not breaking any records. My little motto is that I beat all the couch patatos of America! Good luck on all your running, sounds like you a very full life!

Actually, don't obsess....you've already done all the work. You can certainly make it 24 miles if you really feel like it's necessary but it'll probably beat you up quite a bit, especially with the hills up in that area. But the real work is already done and the next few weeks is just enough work to keep you from going stir crazy and to remind your running muscles that they'll be needed at their best soon enough. Otherwise, it's all mental, so focus on positive attitude and thoughts. You'll do fine.

Talk about your schedule all you want. I will read and learn.

I'm your posterity, at least in a virtual running sense. Post all the details you want. I'm learning from you.

You have so much experience running marathons! This your 15th? Looking at your training, and your long runs these last six months, gets me psyched to train hard for my marathon goals for next year. Thanks for sharing all this, it's really inspiring. You are obviously going to rock Portland next month!

I'd love to see your miles per month review. Good luck on your long run tomorrow.

Carolyn, you got the "draft" version. I don't think I'll push that button ever again! Hope you'll check back and let me know what you think...

I put all your numbers into a spreadsheet so I could analyze it a little better. With the exception of #3, which you said you intentionally ran slowly, every time you increased your total distance over what you had done the previous year, your time decreased. But the biggest improvement came on number 12 when not only did you increase your total miles dramatically, but you introduced speed work.

So now I have to ask myself what is the take home lesson for me from this. As a first time marathoner, I could say that I need to just run as many miles as possible in order to get a good time on my first marathon and not worry about speed work until later marathons. However, since my first marathon is more than 10 months away, maybe if I concentrate on increasing my mileage now, by the time I get to 4 months prior to my marathon, I'll be ready to do some speed work and that will benefit me even more.

Yes, there are a lot of factors involved in how one does in a race. For #12 I changed so many things: lost a little weight (4 lbs.), changed my running form (book: "Programmed to Run"), more miles, more speed work, and it was also a good course (Calif Int. Marathon). For #6, I thought I should do much better, but it was at elevation and I faded badly in the last 5 miles and got sick at the end (paramedics and all, very embarrassing). It will be interesting to see how I do at Portland, since this is the most structured speed work I've ever done (using "Daniels Formula). Then again, a "bad day" can trash everything.

I'm so flattered that you are paying so much attention to my little self examination. I do the same thing, watching other runners and finding out how they train if I can; it's very motivating for me.

I hope your training is a lot of fun and very fulfilling. Everyone says having a time goal for a first marathon is a bad idea, and I guess I agree. But that doesn't mean we can easy abandon it. I wanted so badly to come in under 5 hours my 1st time, and I did, barely. You'll probably know where you're at if you keep racing some 10K's or half m's along the way. I would make my first priority being comfortable with the distance by doing more 18-20 milers than what the usual programs call for, but at a nice slow pace so you don't ruin your weekday runs. The earlier you can get over 18 miles the better, imo. I should probably be writing all this on *your* blog, sorry. Good luck.

Good luck tomorrow on your last big long run. That is so interesting to compare all your previous times. You are going to do great at Portland. I agree that the extra miles make a big difference.

My two cents, or my gathered cents from many others. Work on the mileage first, speed will come. (speed workouts are still important-but not until you have good base miles :)

Good luck on your long run, Maybe I'll see you at the expo :) I have had to changed my goal due to lack of training but I still think I am in a good place to pr.

I am pooped out reading this!! Good luck tomorrow, you are a hard worker!

Excellent job Snoqualmie! Especially taking down that hill before it had a chance to take you. Sounds like one of those great runs we all hope for.

An orchestra, Alice In Chains, and a Seahawks game...beautiful.

Way to go! I'm glad to hear that your long run was such a positive experience.

What instrument does your husband play? My husband plays string bass in a local community orchestra.

Wow, great run, especially with the hill. You're right, that St. John's Bridge hill is the one most folks should worry about but it sounds like you've got it nailed! Sounds like today's run was very strong so take it easy on the tapering for the first week or so....if you're feeling really good then consider backing off only slightly and keeping the intensity high for a tad longer. Sounds like you're peaking at just the right time! Exciting!!!

Thanks everyone for the nice comments! It is always so encouraging! (Carolyn - hubby is a violinist. That's great you've got a musician in the house!)

What a positive run and post! You are feeling it! And you are helping all of us feel it too! I'm with you on the taper....not sure if I want to but know I must! Good luck! :o)

Good luck in Portland. Don't go too crazy on the taper. There is quite a bit of chatter out there that the traditional three-week taper is suboptimal. Just stay injury free and illness free...some thing that can be hard to do if you back off the training too much.

Thanks, Sean. I appreciate the comment. Not only do I hate the taper, but I feel like I over-tapered on all my early marathons. I admit, I don't completely trust the 3 week taper.

HA!!!

I second that "HA!!!"

Those legs deserve a break after yesterday's awesome run. Way to go, legs!

Your blog has to be the best I have read so far. I really like your idea about putting an objective as the first part of every post. I think I will start doing that. I almost always have a clear objective for each run, but stating it and determining if it is met is a good way to keep yourself on track. Like my wednesday run last week the goal would have been active recovery, but since I went with some guys I didn't know who ended up pushing 6:45's toward the end (which is my marathon pace) my goal wasn't really met. But since I didn't say that it wasn't my intention to do 3 hard days in a row I didn't acknowledge the error and am more likely to repeat it in the future. Anyway, thanks for the idea.

Your blogs are inspiring!!! Thank you for sharing!!

Wow, that sounds pretty. I wish I was out there running too. :-)

Sorry to hear about your pain. Good luck on your run tomorrow.

Deep breath. Better safe than sorry. You're doing the right thing. If its feeling better later in the day, maybe you could sneak the jog in but don't sweat it, you're not going to lose an ounce of fitness skipping today...

Well, hey, you got to see the sunrise.

I'm sorry to hear about your scare and don't sweat the missed run. You'll just be stronger tomorrow.

Wise choice today.

I LOVE the north west. We'd love ot move there, it just has not been in the cards for us yet :( Sounds like stayiny in today was a GREAT idea. I hope you feel better tomorrow ;)

Very interresting! I am a whole grain lover. Although I am finding that I am becomming VERY picky about the whole grains I like/love. I do love refined grains, but they tend to make me sick if I have much more than a taste. I think it is very interresting what your body does when you fuel it properly, and how it teaches you what it would prefer to be fed :D

I'm so glad you made it back out on the road today. I was thinking about you and wondering how you were doing.

Thanks for the diet info. I think you're right. I've been doing better about eating more fruits and vegetables, but I just don't love vegetables enough. And I have switched (for the most part) from refrined grains to whole grains.

Great post today!

Glad to hear the pain is only TMS based.

On the food front, my diet has radically changed these last couple of months. I eat a lot of fruit, cereal, and low fat yogurt, spaghetti, tuna, some chicken and red meat. I'm kind of eating non-stop, all day.

You've come through an awesome training cycle free of injury, congratulations! Enjoy your taper.

Interesting thoughts.

I'm at the bottom of the upslope on both bell curves, I think. I am a little younger than you (pushing 40), but have been running for a shorter time (almost a year and a half). I'll try to chase you up that bell curve. We'll see what happens.

I'm sighing with you. Fortunately, there are so many benefits to running besides speed.

This is when we have got to do the whole "count your many blessings" thing and remember that no matter what, we are still faster than 99% of the WHOLE WORLD!!! :D Nice miles!

Sasha took me for a run when we were first married. He thought he should go easy onme since I wasn't used to running and not in super shape(I did run a little and do some aerobics so I was in okay shape). So...he took me out for 3 miles at 8:30 pace. I don't think I held it and was close to passing out at the end of the run. Years later he confessed to me that he had sorrowed secretly in his heart that his new bride had some kind of weird health problem because she couldn't even do a pace as painfully slow as 8:30. He understands and preaches now that people should train at an easy pace for them. I train at 10:00 and race at 8:00 and that is probably as fast as I'll ever be and I'm so okay with that(for now)

Good luck with the stupid leg thing. I hope it goes away.

I know it's frustrating when things interfere with your race preparation. When I was getting ready for the half marathon I did in August, I found out that I needed to have minor surgery on July 2. I went ahead with it and then didn't recover as quickly as I thought I would. I really didn't get in the running I had intended to in the weeks before the race.

But don't stress about the missed day. You are very well prepared for your race and you'll be fine. Make up the day tomorrow if you want, but I think it's not a big deal if you don't (as if I know anything about marathon training).

I'm sorry to hear that you are still struggling with the leg thing, but maybe you'll get it out of the way before race day ;).

Remember to take it nice and slow tomorrow if you do decide to run!

Carolyn & Meadow, thanks so much for the encouragement! This leg thing would be extremely upsetting if I had not had so many other TMS episodes before. (The worst being a 7 year period of severe chronic back pain for which I had exhausted all treatments other than surgery when I discovered Sarno's books. Now there are many books out there. I was pain free within 2 weeks. Now I've had 2 or 3 more experiences and I know the pattern.)

Getting back to this morning, I'd be running along, everything fine, and then my mind would fall on something that is upsetting me and boom! Unbelievable sharp pain, to the point of limping. Then I go through the TMS reminders in my head and it goes away. Go to step one and repeat... Arg! There is zero doubt in my mind as to what is happening. But I am so susceptible to this; unfortunately it's my nature and my childhood.

Since I have not run as much this week I am totally energized so the TMS is like an annoying leash. But it's nice to feel how strong I've gotten.

Fortunately, as you pointed out, I've done all the work. I can afford a set back right now, since it's so minor as to almost be insignificant. Thanks again.

You are looking so strong going into this marathon!

I can relate to a lot to these posts of yours. I'd never really paid much attention to TMS until I read your blog the other day...personally, for me, it could explain a lot. So, thanks!

I enjoy your psychological musings. I think I have more of the first kind of "musts" and my husband has more of the second. Or maybe that's just me being a martyr.

I'm glad you have an enjoyable run today. You're going to do great in your marathon.

I agree with you about tapering. While my training partners will begin a three week taper of about 20% a week, I dropped 10% this week and will maintain my mileage at that point for a while. I don't run a ton of mileage, and I feel that I lose fitness when I taper, because of a lack of base. So I prefer to lower slightly and maintain. I don't know if this is right. I just know that I have to give my body a break from the pounding without giving my lungs/heart a break from conditioning.

Yes, it would be fabulous if we could have a policy of No Events On Long Run Days but I'm afraid life doesn't allow that.

I'm glad you're getting a handle on the TMS and that you had such a nice run. I'm afraid I can't get you any advice about tapering, but when you get it figured out, please let me know.

Nice running today! I feel the same way, I tend to lose fitness quickly. Three weeks seems like a long taper, but not if you do it right; not cutting too much too quickly.

Hey by any chance were you playing harp at the wedding shower?

Oops, what am I thinking...wedding shower, not wedding. Silly me.

JD, no harping today for me. I do wish I could play for her wedding as a gift (she is a close friend) but they are marrying in Hawaii. Can't go, and couldn't take a harp if I wanted to.

Yes, I'm thinking of cutting just a little this week. But I might still do a tempo workout on Thursday. ?? Foolish? Unnecessary?

I kind of feel like a good taper is more slow miles, not necessarily less miles. That works better for me, but I am not so experienced!!

That weather sounds so perfect, I need to move. It is starting to be nice here in the early am and pm, but still too hot in the middle of the day for a nice run.

Let me know how your experimenting goes.

Nice miles :D Everyone has got to taper and train the best way for them :D

We've been having nice weather for running here as well. It's been in the upper 40s, lower 50s in the morning and I've been running in shorts. It's great.

And leave it up to you to recommend something else that I want to buy. I agree with running consistent mileage year round. I'm planning to increase mileage, not decrease over the winter because I'm still building mileage. Also, I can't get away from hills. I need to learn more about different training phases and different types of workouts.

I agree with most of that program except one point. Consistent mileage year around-yes, high mileage year around-no. Just 4-6 weeks at 50% mileage between cycles is enough in my opinion, but you need that to fully recover (physically and mentally). I have fallen into the "keep the fitness" game before and it has only hurt me. There is a reason that most good coaches say that athletes should peak 2-3 times per year and hold that peak for 4-6 weeks. It is from experience. If they try to hold it longer they will hurt the athletes next season (at a low level it just means less improvement but at a high level it means decreased performance in the next season). Anyway, thats just my take. Luckily most people drop intensity and mileage for a while after a marathon but for shorter stuff it is less clear when to cut back. Good luck with the taper mind games.

I think the consistent mileage resonates with me because I think I am much more at risk for injury when *building* mileage (due to my age) and because 50% would take me way too low (25-30 mpw), for both enjoyment of the sport and for my general fitness. I've never really had an injury, but I have had to rebuild and at my age it is slow, tedious and discouraging. I can see how your point of view would apply more to younger or fitter runners but I thought Hudson's reasoning was very sound. Thanks for commenting on my blog. Cheers.

Year round consistent mileage sounds good to me. I don't take that to mean year round "peak" mileage. But keeping a good base of miles so that when you do train for a specific race you begin your cycle from a position of aerobic strength and fitness, which includes "nonlinear periodization" I think this method sounds like a good way to stay motivated year round.

Thanks Sno- I'll look up Hudsons article and see if I want to apply that to my training over the next year.

A happy Autumn Equinox to all!

Hi Snoqualmie - we bought Hudson's book, Dean is still reading now, so I won't get to read it until he is finished ... but, from the parts I have glanced at, I really like what he has to say. Interestingly, one of the other principles that he espouses that goes against most other coaches is the fact that he suggests that if you run two runs/day only a few times a week (compared to every day) then you should do them on "easy days". Most coaches (including mine) suggest running short, easy run on the same day as workout/hard days. Interesting.

Happy tapering.

This is such an interesting disussion. I usually only keep about 30 MPW in winter-- I enjoy cold winter running. I started keeping close to 50 miles per week since about July and have been wondering if I could keep it up all winter. I've really enjoyed higher mileage overall. Running 4-6 miles a day is somehow like trying to swim against the current, once you hit 8+ a day it's like swimming in open water. Maybe it takes older runners more time to 'warm up' but we have more mental stamina to keep it going. I'm interested in both the book and the article-- neat discussion!

Nicely put, luzylew. Open water, yes.

It sounds like you had a great run this morning! It was a little colder here this morning too.

I don't have any PATS suggestions for you. Sorry.

Wow, no PATS advice here (except carry tissue paper - hee,hee) - you should post that question on the discussion board, though. They might have some great suggestions.

Speaking of pictures. Yours reminds me of Emma Thompson. Do you get that often? How fun to look like someone famous. :)

Emma Thompson -- no, that's a first. Nice compliment though. Thx.

It was either on a blog or in the discussion forum somewhere I've read impressive accounts of 30 second VPB's (Virtual Potty Breaks). I think Sasha's got it down to a science. I've termed his method as the "Stop and Drop". Not for the faint of heart!

I, for one, will be in awe of whatever time you get. But please be kind to yourself.

I think your brain is going to be quite surprised with your next marathon performance!

I think the important question to ask afterward is whether you did the best job you could on that day for those conditions. If there are things that come up beyond your control then it is ok to "fail" your original goals, as long as you readjust and make new ones. I found this out in Chicago last year when I started with a plan to BQ with 3:20. The heat and humidity made this goal impossible which I realized at mile 14. For the conditions I still ended up with a pretty good time and was quite happy even though I did not make the 3:20

Good luck and enjoy your taper!

OMG, Mark, you were in Chicago for the melt down? Yeah, I'd be pretty forgiving if I faced anything like that!

Thanks everyone for the encouragement. This constant introspection is one of my least favorite things about the taper.

I think you should think a little differently (and I say this having not mastered it myself - and I struggle with it all the time):

"I did the work, I am going to run the race and do the best I can do today" AND, "this race is not *me* it is just a reflection of something I enjoy".

But I, along with everyone else, feel pretty confident you will suprise yourself. And no matter what happens, we will like you anyway ;-).

That's cool about the deer and I hope your ankle is OK.

If I'm understanding what I've read in Hudson thus far, it's better for you to be running at MP at this point anyway.

By the way, I love Emily Dickinson. I majored in English in college and she has always been my favorite poet.

I think it's a toss up b/t Dickinson and Frost for me.

Now I have a new motto, which is just cracking me up: "Don't warp your cubits!"

I had a class devoted solely to Frost my last semester in college. I was newly married and the class was at 8:00 am. I slept through it on a regular basis and there were only a handful of students in the class, so I'm sure it was painfully obvious. The teacher never said anything though, and I got an A if I recall.

You know, I really look forward to reading your blogs. Thanks for the poetry today.

I love Costco and I love running but I never saw how the two could fit together, but now I see. It all makes sense now. I'm going to Costco this weekend to look for that vest!

I try to breathe in a 3/2 rhythm when I'm going slow and in 2/1 when I'm going fast. I read somewhere to do that. Something about the footstripe on the exhale being harder, or something like that, so they said you should do an odd number so that you're alternating what foot is going down on the initial exhale. Just my two cents for whatever it's worth.

Great run this morning. That marathon is getting close.

Wow, maybe I'm abnormal. I only go into 2-2 breathing when I'm at Tempo speed or late in a long MP run. Everything else I try to keep 3-3 and 4-4 if I'm doing a recovery run.

Maybe the difference is in leg turnover/# of steps per minute. Mine is pretty consistently 175-185 and I'd suspect breathing rates are dependent.

If I get to where 2-2 isn't enough and I have to move to a 2-1 or 1-1 rhythm, I'm about cooked.....my breathing is way too shallow and I don't get enough O2 in that way.

There's a good article on "Peaking" in the latest Running Times by Greg McMillan. Instead of a 3 week taper, he practices 2 week "peaks" that does have some reduced mileage but slightly *increased* intensity "to keep the pumps primed". Looked like your run yesterday was telling you you were ready for some "peaking" with hitting those faster-than-tempo times without trying....

Positive thoughts from here on in to Portland!

Looks like the taper is treating you well thus far. I'm not much of a social runner myself, but I always enjoy a brief encounter with fellow runners on the road from time to time.

The weather here is about 85 degrees in the afternoon, too hot for running. But the mornings are 50-55 degrees, so it's been nice.

Am I supposed to breath while running? Huh...

Carolyn - I read in Thomas Miller's "Programmed to Run" that after the you've run long enough to switch to mostly fat burning, that kind of metabolism requires more oxygen but gives off less CO2 "so that your respiratory center is not signaled to increase your breathing." He also says that vigorous expulsion of CO2 makes oxygen absorption more efficient. On his advice I sometimes use 3 out / 2 in. But 2/2 always feels so much more comfortable. I think it might be my own little o.c.d. complex, even numbers you know. ;)

Dale - 4/4?!?! Really? Geez, you must have VO2 up to your ears! But I do think your cadence is nice and high too and that might help. And yes! I just saw that McMillan column. It makes me feel much better about the run I'm planning for Sunday: 11-12 miles with 5-6 at MP. Part of my brain keeps saying "you could do no running the next 9 days and be fine" and another part thinks the sky is falling. But you all know by now I'm a bit of a head case. hehe

JD - you crack me up, again. Stay cool.

So one book I read said 3 in / 2 out and another book said 3 out / 2 in. I normally do 3 in / 2 out, but sometimes switch to 3 out / 2 in, usually when I'm going up hill.

But I guess your original point is that you were coordinating your breathing with your foot cadence in order to regulate your speed. Regardless of the breathing pattern, that point still holds.

4/4 is *really* slow and I don't do it much anymore. Usually it's 3-3 for most easy stuff and even at the start of tempos and longer races. 2-2 is just too tiring in the long run for me.

Belly breathing does help. It took some practice and still requires some concentration, but it's must more efficient at moving air through your lungs and into your bloodstream than shallow chest breathing. Plus, it helps develop diaphragm muscle (core) strength.

I think the whole 3/2 - 2/3 argument is because you tend to land "harder" on one particular side....I believe it since I tend to get side stitches when working hard in a 2-2 rhythm, but to remedy I take one extra inhale or exhale and basically switch sides. So if the inhales/exhales start on the left foot and my left side starts hurting, I'll add an extra to get the breaths starting on the right foot, which tends to fix things for me.

But, since we're all an experiment of one, I'm sure different things work for different people. I think the most important thing is not to overthink things and go with what works and keeps you relaxed.

Dale, the left/right foot thing makes a lot of sense. Regarding belly breathing, I have found that to be very helpful as well. But sometimes when I try to combine it with other advice I just don't get it: chest high, belly breath, pelvis tucked... they don't work together. It's practically comical. I guess that's another topic altogether.

Hmmm...I've never counted my breaths or anything before. Today I even ran without music, just because, and my brain just wandered all over the place. Maybe tomorrow I'll see what my breath count is and if I'm really adventurous I'll count my foot strikes too ;).

I'm glad to hear you got the book. I'm thinking of starting some hill sprints myself though I, like you, constantly run hills because of the terrain around here.

One week do go. I'm looking forward to hearing about your race.

I'd be interested in hearing which things from Hudson's book you decide to incorporate. I've read the whole book, but don't feel like I really have the experience at this point to really internalize it. I'm interested in your take on what he has to say.

I'm only partway thru the book but I latched onto the hill sprints idea too. This marathon buildup has been the only one (completely coincidentally) where I've intentionally scheduled "hill repeat" workouts, and I feel much stronger and stable muscle-wise than ever before. Even though my daily running route is hilly (500' gain over 4 miles), there's definitely a difference when you sprint them or run fast and work on form.

Don't do anything crazy though between now and Portland!!! :)

Your blogs are so thoughtful and well written. Maybe you could publish them as a training/motivational book someday.

You're looking well prepared for this coming weekend. I'm psyched for you!

JD - thanks for that very nice compliment! Ironically, I believe the blog is a two edged sword for me. The encouragement I get here has been extremely inspiring and knowing I will be logging my miles publicly helps me through hard workouts. But at the same time, I feel an increase in the anxiety that I've been battling because I know that my blog buddies are going to see how I do. I guess a shrink would say I'm transferring insecurites from my family-of-origin to a bunch of strangers on the internet. Maybe so. But I realized yesterday that I will feel just awful if I have to report a disappointing race next week. I know I'm ready, but lots of things can happen. Just trying to keep my head on...

I, for one, will still think you're fabulous if you have a disappointing race. It would help me know that you're just an ordinary human like me (though you're also an extraordinary machine).

Any marathon runner knows that things can go either North, South, East or West come race day. All you can do is train well and go into race day confident in your preparation. No matter what happens, you've put your heart and soul into this, and that's the reward in itself. You belong to an exclusive group (less than 1%?) within the human population that has the guts to be a runner!

Stay healthy! You are almost there!!

No doubt your "soil" is healthy!

I'll definately be refering to the "any run is better than no run" rule many times come Winter.

I used to leave in east central Illinois and it was all about the wind there. It was very flat but often very windy. So from that experience, I would say that wind repeats should count as hill repeats.

Keep that soil healthy.

I live in Kansas which is very windy also and I HATE running into the wind it just wears me out. You have an impressive marathon resume! Best of wishes for your oncoming marathon!

I love pumpkin pie. Maybe I'll give it a try if I get feeling domestic any time in the near future.

Your taper is looking great.

Nice seasonal recipe there Snoqualmie.

You? Fat? Yeah right!

I gained nearly 80 pounds when I was pregnant, and about 50 of them still lived on me 2 years later. I have the dubious honor of lifetime membership in Weight Watchers. Thanks to running and a modified version of the Paleo Diet, I do not anticipate ever darkening their door again. :)

that recipe sounds yummy.

I hope you get some good rest. You are very well prepared for the race. Good luck to you!

Good luck!

Do your best and enjoy yourself!

Go get em!

"Break on through to the other side!"

Have a great marathon!!

Good luck! I can't wait to read your report :). Sleep well.

Thanks for posting your race report. I think you did amazingly well considering what you were going through. I guess it was a tough weekend for marathons. Everyone struggled with St. George as well. With all these stories of struggle I'm thinking I need to try not to set myself up for a big disappointment when I try to run my first marathon next year, after training for it for almost a year.

I'm really proud of you for sticking it out and focusing on highlights and lessons learned.

By the way, what is CIM? I've seen references to that race before, but don't know what the acronym stands for.

Thanks, Carolyn. I'm sure you'll do well on your first marathon, but my advice is to only post a goal of "finish happy." The joy of the experience is what I missed the most. Having trained for a time goal and having my dear friends tell me they knew I would do so well actually was an additional heartbreak to me. No fault of the friends of course! Just my nature to want to please those I care about. You'll notice I've revised my goals a little to try to avoid that problem in the future. :)

CIM is the California Int'l Marathon. It is a point to point race that goes from Folsom Dam to Sacramento. I believe the website is www.runcim.org. It is a net downhill race, with rolling hills in the first half. I ran it 2 years ago and really liked it. It is also the marathon where I am most likely to meet my idol, Helen Kline, someday because she usually runs it (in her mid 80's!). Now that I've met Bart Yasso, I want more celebrities!

Good job in toughing out what was obviously a tough race for you. The marathon is such a tricky event....just about anything can (and will) happen that can really stymie your plans. This weekend appeared to be especially tough for marathoners on the blog so don't feel like you're alone.

Having said that, from the read, most of your issues seemed to be cramp related. That's just like getting "fill in the muscle here" cramps in a race....not much you can do other than bailout or gut it out. Kudos for toughing it out.

The whole marathon warmup thing is pretty much a mystery to me to. I know some folks run a 1 or 2 mile warmup, but I like to conserve all my energy. I tell myself not to worry about my first mile split, but then I always seem to have excited legs and run it fast anyway. I'm guessing your first miles felt hard because your body knew it was about to unleash some cramping on you and was giving you a heads up.

You've got a faster marathon in you....take your lessons learned, wad up the bad memories from this race and throw them away, and focus on your next race. Get some more wet weather training in (which shouldn't be a problem :) ) and look forward to a better race at CIM.

Good job! Truly!

Great job! I think you did amazingly, even with the troubles. Not so sound silly, but the first runner to Marathon, DIED!!! :) What you did is a amazing feat of strenght and will. Congratualtions on a job well done!!

To my fellow Snoqualmie-ite...NICE JOB. It's amazing how much there is to learn from every marathon no matter how many you have done. I didn't see you with the ski poles this morning but I got to share in the wind-driven downpour that is so common around here. Enjoy your recovery...Decemeber is coming very quickly.

The fact that you finished, with a decent time even, under the conditions and the issues you were having almost from the start, says a lot about your strength of mind and body. From your report it sounds like the fitness is definately there, just need all the pieces (or at least some of the pieces) to fall into the right place on race day.

What a crazy weekend for the marathons, reading through all the race reports it sounds like just about everyone came away from the races with lessons they didn't expect to learn.

Congratulations! It's so cool to read about you rising above the challenges of the day.

I am so sorry to hear that you had such a bummer of a race---but just remember that you not only finished, but you did pretty darn great considering! No man will ever understand what that feminine thing can do to us women when we are running---it creates several issues that I will not even mention, but that surely slow us down!

Now, seriously, WHY can an aide station not give out Motrin? That seems ridiculous. What is the thinking behind that in a race???

Oh, I was right with you reading your race entry. It felt alot like my St. George race. We had rain and I felt so crappy, St. George was also my 15th marathon, but I ended up quitting at mile 13. I had done a marathon 2 weeks ago and felt totally drained. I can not tell you how great it felt for me to quit! I just didn't care at that point, it wasn't fun, I was completely miserable and quitting was a beautiful thing. It felt actually very liberating to think I could quit and not feel quilty. I usually love marathons, the whole experience, but this marathon was terrible for me. I am excited to check out your Dec. marathon online. I enjoyed your report and admire your "stick with it" attitude! You are a tough cookie!!

Ski poles, huh. There's an idea. On my dark run this morning I did think about the fact that fewer people would see me looking like a dork, and I didn't have ski poles.

One of your long term goals is to be an inspiration to others. You are certainly achieving that goal.

It is too bad that the marathons last weekend had such horrible conditions. I guess that quite a few runners are looking forward to December-January races. Best of luck with the recovery. Are you massaging your legs out. That can speed up the recovery process, also ice bathing helps alot. Good luck at CIM.

I lack the moral fiber to do ice baths. But I did buy "The Stick" at the expo, and was finally able to use it this morning without too much pain. Can't wait to run again!

Way to get out there and walk. I know what you mean about seeing runners and wishing you could run. I felt that way when I was out walking after a surgery I had last summer.

I'm sure you'll be running in no time.

I've wondered about The Stick from time to time. Let me know how you like it.

I have to tell you, I have been walking every night for about an hour, and I know it has helped me to recover fast! It feels so good, too! Keep up the great work, and here is to a better marathon the next time. We all have bad days, but if we learn from the they are a success!

Get well soon! Congrats on the forward momentum.

I'm jealous of your recent sleep accomplishments.

That is great news---the going down the steps forward! It makes life so much easier!

Get better!

JD - re sleep: the cats weren't too happy about it. lol

Kelli - thanks!

So sorry to hear about your cold. I hope you get well soon.

Feel better soon!

Quick question, is this race around your neck of the woods? If so, do you know much about the trail this race is run on? It goes from Snoqualmie Pass to North Bend. Here is the website: www.littlemarathon.com/Tunnel/default.asp

Good heavens! It's practically in my back yard! I never heard of it. We have a lot of rail trails here -- they are never much more than 2-3 percent grade and in good condition. Thanks SO much for the link. I was thinking of the new Seattle Rock n Roll marathon for that month, but maybe I'll consider this one. Wow.

BTW, my head is a bit foggy and when I first read your comment my brain only saw "is this race around your neck?" Yes! But I'm recovering quickly. lol

I've been looking at Halloween decorations on my runs too. That chain-saw one sounds pretty gruesome and in poor taste. I saw a fairly realistic ghost/witchy thing up on someone's roof. That could really scare a kid.

I hope your cold is gone enough for you to run tomorrow.

That's awesome to see you running again Snoqualmie. Sounds like good weather.

We woke up to two inches of snow and it's still snowing lightly. Fall colors are covered up for the time being. The forecast calls for temps in the 70's by Thursday.

Have a great Sunday!

Yay, I'm glad you were able to get out there again, I'm hoping to get out there tomorrow.

Yeah! I'm glad you're running again. Maybe those deep breaths of the cool fall ear will clear out that phlegm. Have a great running week, but take it easy.

Oh, take it easy in that cold weather. BRRR!

I like your description of waking up. I did hit the snooze alarm this morning (alarm went off at 5:00), but then I got up two minutes later instead of waiting for the alarm to go off again. I think it gets harder as the darkness gets darker and the coldness gets colder.

The thing that really gets me out of bed is the need to drive my son to school at 5:50. If I don't get up within a few minutes of 5:00, then I don't have time to do the shred and get dressed before it's time to take him. And he's so good about getting up on time and always being ready, I don't want to make him late. Last Friday when he didn't have school, I really slept in.

I'm glad you're able to run again and generate your own endorphins.

That is SO smart! I am going to copy you. I am the WORST waker-upper in the WORLD!! Enjoy your slow week :) Take it easy :D

That is too funny---I have the same slacker in my brain! I like the sit up and get up philosophy. I will try it out.

Keep feeling better and great run today!

You're a stronger ma...er...woma...uh, person than me!

I really need to get slacker to stop fighting with my "don't think" brain, slacker has been much faster than my "don't think, just go" thoughts. I really need to get back on track. I'll try again, thanks for the reminder! :)

I'm glad to hear that you felt great. That's fantastic news.

And thanks for the tip about form drills. I should think more about my form. I do concentrate on arm swing occasionally, but don't think much about my feet.

I have the same problem with removing layers. The reflective vest is what really makes it difficult. I've been wearing a hooded sweatshirt that zips up the front and when I get too warm, I just unzip it under the reflective vest, but leave it on. I did manage to get it off while leaving the vest on one time, but that was quite a feat.

Hi Snoqualmie, I too am a ridge runner. We live over in the heights on Odell. Noticed that you had the same weather report that I did this morning. I usually run around 7 a.m.- How about you?

This temps right now are kind of right on the edge of cold/warm. Hard to get the layers just right. Soon though, it will be cold enough to just pile it on and hope to generate enough body heat to get through the run.

I used to have a running gait I resorted to when extra tired, I called it "the Jamestown Shuffle". I haven't had to use it for awhile, (knock on wood).

Good to hear your energy's back.

I think you stole my fresh legs. Just kidding.

I'm always interested in your book recommendations. And I'll have to start thing about whether I'm collected.

Thanks for an interesting post.

So glad you are feeling better!

I will have to pay attention when I run, who knows---maybe I am flailing all over the place. I could use a good kick with some spurs!

I used to live over in Crestview and that hill was always a wake up call. I only run over there now when extra miles are needed.

The rain does not sound fun. I guess you get a lot of rain where you are.

I'm sorry I don't have a jacket recommendation. I'm just getting by with an old hoody right now.

Good luck with your upcoming long run. I hope that cold leaves you for good.

Nice recovery week. Let me know if you find something good on that jacket, I'm in the market also. Something light weight, gortex, windproof, and free...

Nice run!! That's a lot of miles so soon after a marathon isn't it. I have been easing into it and haven't done anything past 6.5 and my marathon was 4 weeks ago.

Great job!! Hope to see you around town:)

Wow. Sounds like a great run. Great job.

Yes, Jefferey, it is for me. Though I notice the faster folks jump back in pretty quick. I have to be careful, but I'm doing as much as I can to get back into some good quality training asap since my next marathon is so soon (12/7).

Very nice, long run!

It is so hard to figure out what to wear this time of year---I am always too cold or too hot!

What hills in Boston??? Wow, that is amazing.

Have a good day!

I hope someday I stop noticing hills. We can always dream, right.

Be sure to let us know how your Brad Hudson hill sprints go. I like them. I might start doing them more than once/week.

Good luck with the weather. I'm worried about weather and appropriate dress this week.

Great running :) I love hte hill thoughts. I like hills too. The flats really make me nuts. I think I like the hills because they always have to go back down :)

The weather is a monster beast right now. At least in the summer when it is hot, any rain is welcome :)

I remember reading the story in his book. I forgot the title of the book, but I do remember it was green and about 200 pages. He did not write it himself - rather a professional writer spent some time with him and took notes.

Wow, 8 hill sprints. I only ever do 3. Maybe I should start doing more.

I don't try to count when I do hill sprints. I just pick a point on the hill using some physical marker and run to it. After running the same hill a few times I know where on the hill I can get to in about 10 seconds.

That's a great idea, Carolyn. I don't suppose a 2-3 second difference matters much. Steepness seems to be the ticket. I have another steeper hill I'm planning to move to when this hill no longer seems hard. How long do you walk or jog between repeats?

Sorry, never ran that race. It's a bit far to travel for me. I did run a nice half down in Olympia at Evergreen State College last year in early Feb that was decent....a few rolling hills but nothing outrageous. A bit slick though...icy in spots.

Does your watch have a countdown timer that you could set to 10 seconds so it'd beep for you? I could *never* manage to count to 10 consistently when running fast (heck, even when running slow!) If not, I'd go with the distance/physical marker idea for consistency.

The recovery from hill sprints is usually just jogging/walking back downhill to the start area, but I think for these short ones you're supposed to "fully" recover according to Hudson (but I'm not sure....been a while since I read that section). So it probably wouldn't hurt to add some recovery in if you need it.

In any event, you'll get stronger quickly. Hill sprints became my favorite workout (not *during* them, mind you!) this season!

I just jog back down the hill between repeats. But then again, I've only been doing 3 repeats. I'd have to look back at Hudson again to refresh my memory about what he recommends.

Dale, is that the Geoduck Gallop? Looks like a nice, small race. Automatic AG award for me. Sorry, but that's how my desperate-for-accomplishment mind works. That might be a good option!

Glad to hear I'm not alone in my Counting Disability. I've got a Garmin, which could be programmed for ten second intervals. Maybe I'll do that. No timer though.

Yup, that's the race. Don't think I wasn't there hoping for an AG award too :) It's small, few spectators, only one or two aid (water) stations, and pretty sparsely attended, but.....why did I go again? Oh yeah, much closer for me than anything else! And fairly flat (some uphill and downhill, mostly gentle with only one short steep up/downhill stretch.

Yes, use the Garmin. That's exactly how I program mine....beep at me at 10 or 12 seconds or whatever, then set the recovery to the manual "press the button" thing and it works as a great reminder....if it's not buried under long sleeves so you can't hear it! Not that that has happened to me before!

The length of the repeat can vary, as well as the number of repetitions. Just run from point A to point B, as Dale and Carolyn suggested. Go by distance, but time your repetitions. This will help you evaluate if you are progressing or not overtime. The recovery needs to be long enough so you are able to hit a PR quality run on every repeat. The first couple you will be off just because it takes time to warm up. The next 4 or so will be PR quality. Once you start slowing down, even if you feel good it is time to stop.

The workout has no aerobic or anaerobic stress. So you won't feel any kind of pain you normally do when running longer distances. But it is very taxing on the nervous system and on the sprint energy (creatine phosphate). Because of the nervous system stress, I would definitely not recommend doing it more often than once a week for a woman in the master's division, I would even say if your sprint times are not improving, you may have to do it once every 10 days or so, or maybe even once every two weeks. A collegiate runner could probably handle this twice a week productively.

Make sure the hill is nasty steep, barely runnable with a normal distance effort - 10-15% grade. Do not worry if you are crawling speed wise. The goal is to make your muscles work at 100% of their explosive power, and 3-5% grade does not quite do it.

Watch out for injuries. 100% max effort up a steep grade will pull what can be pulled, crack what can be cracked, and twist what can be twisted. Pay attention to how you feel and adjust accordingly - extra stretching, maybe strengthen a trouble muscle first, run a few lesser intensity strides for warm-up, etc.

I would recommend this form of training only once you've maxed out your aerobic base, though. That is, you've reached a point where running more miles does not make you faster in your goal distances. You run the same paces at a lower heart rate, but you are unable to run faster paces at all even though your HR is still low.

Thanks for the comment, Sasha. I think my hill was about 8%, and I have a 14% hill I can move to once I know I'm not going to "pull what can be pulled."

Have you read Brad Hudson's book? He has quite a lot to say about this workout. I am following his protocols as nearly as I can.

I'm not sure I've maxed out on my aerobic base. Interesting question. I only know that I have maxed out on the time I can spend running without sacrificing more sleep. I would love to have more miles, but I'm not sure they would make me faster. Working on that.

The report from your marathon suggests the aerobic base may be far from maxed out. Also, the fact that your best time is only 4:17 points in the same direction.

However, to know for sure what is going on you need to race a range of distances from 1 mile to the half marathon. Does even have to be an official race, just measure out a course, find somebody who could pace you and yell at you when you slow down, and go for it.

What is odd is that you have been running decent mileage. So this in theory should give you a solid base.

I have rarely signed up for races less than half-m distance in the past few years because I find it so discouraging, even humiliating. The speed just isn't there. But I can trot along 20+ miles every other weekend and come home smiling. (I have never been injured; I know when I "overtrain" because I fall asleep at the dinner table. lol) I will take your advice to heart, however and try to sign up for more races during the coming months.

One of the attractions for me in the Brad Hudson book was his method for "non-linear periodization," so that I will work on all aspects of my running fitness throughout the training cycle. Since I just discovered the book and since my next marathon is in December, I'm just integrating a few of his workouts in this short time I have to prepare.

I have no structured running background from my youth, as many here do and I often wonder how much that costs me. I am HIGHLY motivated to work hard, but not very talented. Thanks again for all your comments.

That is interesting. What do you mean exactly by "the speed is not there"? What times did you get in shorter distances?

In the next few days, go to the track and see what you can do in an all out 100 meter sprint, 200 meters, and 400 meters. When you have the results, send me a message in case I forget to check your blog.

I'll do those short trials soon. It's so good of you to have a look at my training.

It sounds like you had a really great run today. That's fantastic.

I'm interested to see what Sasha says about your hill sprints after you've done the time trials that he asked you to do.

I love being a little sore after a workout, makes it feel a little more effective.

Nice description, sounds like a nice morning to be out on a run. Great job by the way on bouncing right back after the marathon. Your consistency is impressive.

Glad I'm not the only one calculating the time versus distance thing.

So it sounds like you really need some help with your running economy (efficiency at speed). The three things that've worked for me are: 1 - Strides and 2 - Leg/Core muscle strength, 3 - Mental. Running a set of 15-20 second strides 1 or 2 times/week where you focus on running fast and form helps you figure out what "right" feels like and improves your economy. Leg/core muscle strength helps you feel like you're not going to crash like you've ridden your bike too fast when you run fast. The Mental thing is not getting into the mindset that speed faster than your normal (easy) pace are "too fast". Easy to feel like you're running "too fast" when you've really just gotten faster and that's now normal, but your brain holds you back. Maybe the last one is just me....my two cents, in this economy probably only worth 1/2 a penny!

I worry about time versus distance as well. For those of us who don't run Sasha speeds, putting in lots of miles takes LOTS and LOTS of time.

I don't know how to help you with your speed, but I'm hoping to learn something from whatever Sasha tells you.

In any case, you're my running hero.

Dale - thanks for the input!! Strides have always mystified me. So, you speed up, speed up, go really fast for a 10-20 seconds, then cruise back down to normal? I like running fast, but I get badly winded very quickly at "Strides" pace. I think I put some in once a week on an "easy" day. Does that sound right? The leg/core strength seems a little easier for me to get a handle on - ie what kind of work to do. The mental thing, hm - I don't know. I'll have to think about that one.

Carolyn - you are so kind to give me hero status. I don't think I deserve that, but thanks. It often seems like you and I are on the same journey.

I'm chasing you up the bell curve.

Up front admission.....I tend to run Strides too hard! This site explains them pretty well (http://www.runquick.com/corcorn/strides.html). The important part is to focus on good form and stay relaxed...can't do that if you're running all out. If you're getting winded, cut the duration a bit....I find myself just starting to breath hard towards the end of the Stride. I've always been told to start Moderate and accelerate thru the Stride so that the last few seconds are at the fastest speed you can maintain while relaxed, emphasis on relaxed.

Your hill work will help with economy and strength as well.

I have no advice aside from just keep plugging along and you will get there!! You are doing great, you do not quit. I am all for experimenting with different things becasue we are all different!

Good luck and thanks for sharing that story about the marathoner. Kind of silly, I think, to not let her be THE winner.

I didn't eat so well yesterday, either. Let's hear it for new days. I'm still trying to lose some weight and whenever I have a bad day, I just figure I'll start again and do better the next day. Thanks for the reminder.

We haven't bought Halloween candy yet. I'm putting it off as long as possible. Actually, the kind of stuff we get for Halloween doesn't appeal to me much anymore. Also, we're going to give out certificates for a free Tae Kwon Do lesson that we're getting from our Tae Kwon Do sabumnim. We'll give out a treat too. And I've got to come up with Halloween costumes, at least for my little one. I better get crackin'.

Wow! You just keep piling on the miles so soon after your marathon. You are the (Wo)Man! Nice work

Way to stick with it today! It sounds like you got quite the workout.

And I know nothing about the botany of trees, so thanks for sharing.

Great run. You are looking very strong! Thanks for the info about trees and wind. Autumn is in the top four of my favorite seasons.

Nice work! Big miles on a really windy day. Keep it up and I can see a great run in your next marathon! By the way, sorry you had to miss the pizza, it was pretty darn good.

I agree. It's always nice to have an excuse for a slow easy run.

By the way, what do you mean when you say Beaufort 2-3?

That's the wind measurement scale invented by Sir Frances Beaufort in the early 19th century. Each point on the scale has a corresponding description, such as "leaves in constant motion," raises a flag," "white caps form on seas," etc. So a layperson like me can describe wind speed accurately without knowing the mph. You can google it to get the descriptions; it's pretty useful.

We're all about the wind here from October to March. My neighborhood is situated at the end of a sort of funnel, the Snoqualmie Pass. It cuts through the Cascade Mtns which separate the very different climates of Eastern and Western Washington. On the east side it's very dry and sunny with extreme cold and hot in the winter/summer; the west is wet and temperate by comparison. Between Oct. and March, every time we on the west side are finishing up a stretch of clear weather, the pressure differential and the shift to low pressure makes the wind come screaming through that pass. It's a tight squeeze, which makes the wind even stronger. The pass opens into the Snoqualmie Valley, and up here on the Ridge we get blasted. Anyway, I get tired of saying kinda windy, real windy, sorta windy... so I have my Beaufort scale handy.

Thanks for the explanation.

I had the local news on this morning and they said no wind, and then I walked out the door and got hit in the face with a gust of wind. Granted, I live quite a distance from the t.v. studio and the airport, where they take measurements. And I have to agree that wind was not a factor on my run.

I guess this time of year wind and rain are your big issues while cold and (eventually) snow are mine.

Ahhh...sleep!

Thanks, I got a good laugh from this one! Those deer can be frightening! Look at the bones!

Nice run!

Yes, it's cracking me up too, more and more as it moves further into the past. I can just see me making a fish tale out of it... "There were 12 of them. HUGE beasts, circling me. If it weren't for my prodigious running speed I never would have escaped..."

Watch out for those deer!

I stick to the roads and stay away from the green belts when it's dark. I'm afraid of running into man or beast with bad intentions in the dark abandoned green belts. Also, it seems colder in the green belts than near the buildings.

Congratulations on a great run. So I see you're trying the strides. How did that go?

Strides... I wasn't crazy about them. But I only did 4. It felt a lot like the hill sprints but with less intensity. They made me extremely breathless but didn't seem challenging at all to my legs. I am not sure they're as valuable as the hill sprints for me, and I think the hill sprints accomplish many of the same goals.

Don't give up on the Strides...you really shouldn't feel them in your legs and they shouldn't feel challenging. They should help teach you to run fast with good form while staying loose and relaxed, which helps improve your running economy. It's one of those drills that doesn't feel physically challenging and that's okay. The challenge is to stay loose and relaxed at high speed. But they do help so I'd recommend sticking with them!

If you're feeling too breathless, make sure you fully recover between them and maybe cut down the length/time of each stride by a little bit.

That would have scared me to death!! LITERALLY!!! You are very BRAVE.

Great job today!

Dale - maybe I ran them too fast.

If you feel like you are straining, your running them too fast. If you feel fast but in control and relaxed, they're just right. It takes a while. I'm still working on mine :)

Those coyotes were just cheering you on!

I have read that each extra pound over ideal weight can cost as much as two seconds per mile in a long race. I think this is probably too high but none the less the idea seems sound. I too am in the 50+ crowd and am a few % over ideal weight. I am trying to lose a few ponds before Seattle. We will see then if it makes any noticable difference.

Honestly, I think that when someone runs as much as you do and eats fairly healthy (emphasis on fairly, I think being too strict is a bad thing!) your weight comes to what it should be. If you can go out and run 8 miles and you're not eating fast food all the time, I feel your body finds some kind of equilibrium... a happy place! If you felt like your times were being affected or you wanted to look a little better in your bathing suit you could take a look at your diet and see where maybe you could make some improvements, but I bet you are just where you should be "at your age" :)

I am down about 55 lbs. from my peak weight a year and a half ago. I am at the top of the medium frame range for my height on the Met Life tables. I would like to lose 10-15 more lbs.

People express incredulity when I tell them I want to lose more weight. And I have one friend who is afraid I will become anorexic. I am so NOT anorexic.

In any case, I am working on the additional weight loss and hope that it helps my running.

Thanks for the link to the article. Very interesting.

For Shoe Manager, just enter the distance that you ran with the shoes that day in the field for the shoes that's just below the regular distance and sleep time fields. It is automatically added to the running total for the shoes, which began with the distance you put in for the shoes when you first added the shoes.

I hope that makes sense. That's the way it seems to me to work.

Wow, top of the mileage board! Here ive been in Marathon land (Boston) for the last 5 days and didnt run once! (partially from my back problem) And youve been ripping up the state of Washington! Very nice!

I got a chuckle from your "better workouts through stupidity" comment. It's like a couple of days ago when I thought I had taken a wrong turn and so turned around, and then realized I hadn't taken a wrong turn and so turned around again. My stupidity just added a little extra distance.

I'm glad I was able to help with the shoe thing.

I see that you do tempo runs differently than I do. I've just been doing 3-4 miles of sustained harder effort, rather than the 3 minutes @ LT with 2 minutes walk/jog between. Should I be doing it your way?

Way to power through and great tempo run. I usually go down to centennial field in snoqualmie to do my tempo runs. It's easier on the flat surface, not these rolling hills and I hit the snoqualmie valley trail which is softer on my joints.

Hey, it is good when stupidity is on your side!! great job today!

Carolyn,

As far as I know there are many valid ways to do tempo runs. I get many of my workout formulas (like today's) from Daniels, Pfitzinger and Hudson (my new best friend). So funny about your "stupid" advantage run. Maybe we need a new motto: "I meant to do that."

Jefferey,

I'll bet Centennial Field is a great place to run. I have to stick with the Ridge or give up a bunch of running time to driving.(DH leaves for work and I've got to take over parent-at-home by 6:40.) Also, I'm afraid of the dark. But yeah, tempo runs through the hills are miserable. A lot of the time I do "laps" around Kinsey and Ridge in the flat part just to have some consistency. I've only been on the SVT once, with DH and DD on bikes and me running. Should do it again; that was so fun.

Nine is a lucky number :) Right? Great workout! I love how we just die for our technology! LOVE/HATE!! :) Best of times, the worst of times!

Isn't running the BEST!!!

This year was especially good for bunnies hopping everywhere on the trail in the morning especially, but also the evenings. Saturdays are great days out there. I see a lot of families biking and/or walking. The marathon plan Sean set up for me had me doing 7 and 8 mile tempo runs at times. That was tough!

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has made that very same Garmin mistake!

I found your blog from the running times forum. Your name there, snoqualmie, caught my eye because we're planning a trip to Seattle - I'm running the marathon in November. : )

Great workout! So did you avoid the stress?

Didn't quite put that right, did I? How does one say this in under 5 words? "I kept my cadence as high as I could without making the run into a non-easy workout, while trying not to be all choppy and stay loose." :)

Sounds very complicated, but you described it WELL ;) Sounds like you accomplished it! :)

Crazy weather. Yesterday I was feeding the woodstove all day. This morning I got up and wondered who broke into the house and kept it going all night long!

Great, now I'll feel responsible if your taper doesn't go well :). One thing I noticed was when I felt fresh during the taper. Usually, by week 2 (of 3), I'd start feeling fresh and then sluggish week 3. With the 2 week abbreviated taper, I didn't start feeling fresh until about Friday (before Sunday's race), never feeling truly fresh (or sluggish). Unfortunately, if I would've been still tired Friday and Saturday, there wouldn't have been much I could've done at that point, but it worked out for me.

I guess my point is to start paying attention the final week, and take an extra day or reduce extra mileage if you're feeling particularly fatigued and you think you need it. I really hope this works for you!

We're unseasonably warm here as well.

Congratulations on getting your mileage back up. You are a great example.

Dale, don't worry about it. (But you did make me laugh out loud.) I want to follow the same general rule as you did because I relate so well to what you said. Feeling fresher and fresher, then on week 3 feeling like a slug. I think it will help with my out-of-control anxiety levels as well to stay with my "normal" schedule just wee bit longer. I do like taking 2 full days off before marathons, and I think I'll feel better about doing it if I've kept my intensity high while reducing with 25%, 50%. If it doesn't work out, I'll just have my lawyer call you. ;)

Great. Now I've got to put a legal disclaimer on all my blogging statements!

Great week of training and a great month as well. I'll be excited to find out how CIM goes. I've been interested in that race for a while since I saw an article about it someplace, looks like it could be pretty fast.

Wow. Snoqualmie, you're awesome! You're the toughest runner I know (though, I know you only virtually). Nice job today. Sheesh, over 22 miles in pouring rain...

22 miles in this mess? Wow! I even bailed on cutting up more firewood today because of the downpour.

I like Pete Pfitzinger's philosophy of long runs paces.....the first half should be about 20% slower than your MP and the second half should be about 10% slower. It teaches your body to negative split, helps you stay slower in the early miles, and toughens you up in the later miles. So your negative splitting practice is right on track. Keep it up!

Way to go! You are absolutely amazing!

JD- thanks. I'll confess, I was hoping someone would say something like that. It kept me going at times to know I could brag on my blog. Shameless.

Dale- I don't think I was quite down to 10% on the second half, but I did go negative! I kept thinking of so many ways in which this approach will help me. Better muscle recruitment, better psychological attitude, learning to really expect a faster pace later in the run (seems like that would be miraculous, but I believe!), having a more interesting strategy for long runs-- and other similar thoughts. It was a real forehead smacking experience.

Thanks everyone for giving me pats on the back. It's one of the best perks of blogging. :)

What time were you out there? That was some really heavy rain a few times. Great job to tough it out! I wimped out and used the tread on Sat. and I will brave whatever we get on Mon.

I was up your way twice: once at about 7:30 and again about 11:00.

I think that the next time I have to do a long run in the wet I will just plan to swing past my house midway and quickly change into dry clothes and new socks/shoes. No rule we have to suffer, right? :)

I like the change off of DST. The change onto DST in the spring kills me.

My 11-year-old son woke up at 6:00 this morning blaming DST. I was able to get up a little easier at 5:00 than usual, but I know it won't last. Also, I could run without the headlamp this morning, which also won't last.

Way to get out and run after that awesome long run you did yesterday.

I could live without DST. Actually, I did for a while living in Arizona :).

Getting out and running the day after long runs really helps your recovery and teaches you to run while tired. The former will help you run better tomorrow while the latter will help in the late stages of your marathon!

I was going to take the day off today. Your run today after a 22+ mile run makes me feel guilty. That is another value of this blog.....there are a lot of other people that are working very hard on their running. Reading about the hard work of others helps motivate me. Great run yesterday.

Felt much better running in the light!! Of course you run at 4:30 in the am so you don't get to enjoy it that much. Are you going to run the turkey trot or are you volunteering?

I agree on DLS. It was hard to convince my kids it was time for bed when it was dark---they are all getting to smart and could read the clock time. Then, they all got up EARLY this morning. I guess that was nice as we were not rushing around, but I wanted to enjoy the perk of "falling back" and get some extra sleep!!

Great running yesterday and today!! You are amazing, really! i am always so impressed by what you do and then how you break it all down for your blog readers.

Saamijeff- I feel the same way about the blog. So much inspiration. I also "hang out" on the marathon forum of the Running Times website. Those folks are extremely hard core. Very inspiring.

Jeff- I plan to volunteer at the Turkey Trot.

Thanks everyone for encouraging me. That reminds me... did anyone else read the Running Times editorial this month, about how they say "bon courage" instead of "good luck" in France? I love it.

I don't think any jacket is going to really be waterproof. If it was, it wouldn't breathe at all and you'd roast. Face it, we live in the soggy NW and just have to deal with being damp!

So cool seeing wildlife out and about. I just had a young buck walk past my home office window; so neat! Unfortunately, the hunters are out in droves around here (our road traffic easily quadrupled the past month or so), but I've chased them off before and believe I've gotten a reputation :).

Way to get out *despite* the wet and get the mileage in...your legs were obviously thanking you today!

Congratulations on the negative splits. I think you are a superwoman for getting out in heavy rain. We really don't get much rain here and I've only ever run in a light drizzle, not a heavy rain. Perhaps my day is coming. If it does, I'll try to run in it in your honor.

Do you ever slow down? I heard the heavy rain start early this morning and was glad running was not my plan today. Miserable is the word that comes to mind. Not sure how you can see where you're going when it's dark and raining on the hills of Sno. Ridge. Great Job! NOTHING CAN STOP HER!

Nice! Now you're running with the bucks!

I like what you said "...hard is rebuilding strength after letting one's mileage slip over the winter." That is the truth, and a helpful reminder/motivator for me to ponder as winter starts making itself at home around here.

Nice mileage this week!

Re: the interesting question.

I am at a desk all day, but I don't know the answer to your interesting question. However, I can maybe do a mini experiment tomorrow. Today I will be at my desk all day like usual, but tomorrow I'm going on that field trip. It's not like I'll be on my feet all day, but I will be up and around more than usual. If I feel like there's a significant amount of being on my feet tomorrow, then I'll compare tomorrow's recovery to today's.

Re: The paradox.

There's a small red button, just down and to the left of . . . Just kidding. I think you just have to train yourself to think that way. Count your blessings when things are going well and baby happy with what you've got. When things aren't going well, count your blessings and remind yourself that this too will pass. I've got something unpleasant on my mind right now and I'm trying to tell myself that in a few weeks this issue won't bother me like it does now and in months or years from now, I probably won't even remember it.

Isn't there supposed to be a way to edit your comments? If there is, I can't figure it out. I don't think there's a freudian thing going on that my fingers typed "baby happy" when I was thinking "be happy." I really should proof read.

Your paradox is SO ture!!

You can also upload to photobucket too. It's super easy :) I'd love to see the pick!

Carolyn - no problem, I am fluent in Typo. I think it's true that we can train our brains that way, but I also wonder whether we get the opposite kind of training in childhood and that's what makes it so hard. Well, something to think about.

Marion- I don't know about photobucket. I'll have to see if I can figure that out. You'll know I succeeded if you see a picture appear!

I suppose that the way your parents dealt with good times and bad times, and the way they spoke about them, when you were a child has an influence on how you deal with them as an adult. But I think it also has something to do with your natural temperament. It's kind of a nature versus nurture thing.

IS THIS A VIEW FROM YOUR HOUSE?!?!? I AM SO JEALOUS! Holy cow that's awesome!

Woohoo! It worked!! Mt. Si is the peak on the right. Isn't it pretty? A local elite ultrarunner, Scott Jurek, said in an interview that he runs "Mt. Si repeats" -- 4 of them (~3500-4000 feet) -- then soaks his legs in the Snoqualmie River. The trail is on the back side and it's all switchbacks and VERY steep.

Awesome pictures! Congratulations on posting them successfully.

I guess the Mt. Si repeats is what makes him an elite ultrarunner.

I clicked on one of the photos and went to your Flickr album. Do you knit all that stuff? You are freakin' amazing!

Carolyn -- hahaha! It does make me look like a bit of a fanatic, doesn't it? Actually I am an active member of a huge online knitting community called Ravelry. The only way we can share project photos is through flickr, which is why it's all knitting pictures (like, no family, pets; just knitting). There is also a photoset on there for my daughter's projects, so it's not all mine. lol

HowlingC- This is the view that got us out of Seattle (in addition to several other factors) three years ago. It never gets old. Thanks for the compliment. :)

Then your daughter is freakin' amazing too!

Those pictures are AMAZING!!! Your knitting is WONDERFUL!!! I have decided that we will come and see you on our family vacation! Are you ready for 8 house guests?

In the summer I hiked Mt. Si and jogged down the 4 miles. My quads were sore for about 4 days.

The only way it gets better in those pictures is to have a fire going and a cup of hot chocolate in hand. AWESOME! Is that out your front window?

Jeff- We hiked Si once, and I'm not sure I'll ever do it again. I liked going up but coming down was misery. That's from the back of the house. Stop by for hot cocoa anytime.

Marion- Eight? Hm. Are they all house-broke?

Have you hiked Little Si? It's a lot easier and you still get some nice views at the top.

Yes. Little Si is wonderful. Great for kids too!

Good run today, but AWESOME pictures!

The paradox is a tricky one, however those are just the defaults, to switch them around takes an effort each time, otherwise things revert back to the default. The effort is always worth it.

BEAUTIFUL!!!!

I remember last year during one of these big blows that my hat and glasses were blown off. One of the lenses in my glasses came out and flew away and so I ended up searching for 15 minutes and finally ran home only seeing out of 1 eye. At least it wasn't raining that day. Any miles in this kind of wind is like a MP mile8).

Here is a quote from the book "The Greatest Salesman in the World" It's really long but you are doing it so well.

I will persist until I succeed. In the Orient young bulls are tested for the fight arena in a certain manner. Each in brought to the ring and allowed to attack a picador who pricks them with a lance. The bravery of each bull is then rated with care according to the number of times he demonstrates his willingness to charge in spite of the sting of the blade. Henceforth I will recognize that each day I am tested by life in like manner. If I persist, if I continue to try, if I continue to charge forward, I will succeed. I will persist until I succeed. I was not delivered unto this world in defeat, nor does failure course in my veins. I am not a sheep waiting to be prodded by my shepherd. I am a lion and I refuse to talk, to walk, to sleep with the sheep. I will not hear those who weep and complain for their disease is contagious. Let them join the sheep. The slaughterhouse of failure is not my destiny. I will persist until I succeed. The prizes of life are at the end of each journey, not near the beginning; and it is not given to me to know how many steps are necessary in order to reach my goal. Failure I may still encounter at the thousandth step, yet success hides behind the next bend in the road. Never will I know how close it lies unless I turn the corner. Always will I take another step. If that is of no avail I will take another, and yet another. In truth, one step at a time is not too difficult.I will persist until I succeed. Henceforth, I will consider each day's effort as a but a blow of my blade against a mighty oak. The first blow may not cause a tremor in the wood, nor the second, nor the third. Each blow, of itself, may be trifling, and seem of no consequence. Yet from childish swipes he oak will eventually tumble. So it will be with my efforts of today. I will be liken to the rain drop which washes away the mountain; the ant who devours a tiger; the star which brightens the earth; the slave who builds a pyramid. I will build my castle one brick at a time for I know that small attempts, repeated, will complete any undertaking. I will persist until I succeed. I will never consider defeat and I will remove from my vocabulary such words and phrases as quit, cannot, unable, impossible, out of the question, improbable, failure, unworkable, hopeless, and retreat; for they are the words of fools. I will avoid despair but if this disease of the mind should infect me then I will work on in despair . I will toil and I will endure. I will ignore the obstacles at my feet and keep mine eyes on the goals above my head, for I know that where dry desert ends, green grass grows. I will persist until I succeed. I will remember the ancient law of averages and I will bend it to my good. I will persist with knowledge that each failure to sell will increase my chance for success at the next attempt. Each nay I hear will bring me closer to the sound of yea. Each frown I meet only prepares me for the smile to come. Each misfortune I encounter will carry in it the seed of tomorrow's good luck. I must have the night to appreciate the day. I must fail often to succeed only once. I will persist until I succeed. I will try, and try, and try again. Each obstacle I will consider as a mere detour to my goal and a challenge to my profession. I will persist and develop my skills as the mariner develops his, by learning to ride out the wrath of each storm. I will persist until I succeed. Henceforth, I will learn and apply another secret of those who excel in my work. When each day is ended, not regarding whether it has been a success or failure, I will attempt to achieve one more sale. When my thoughts beckon my tired body homeward I will resist the temptation to depart. I will try again. I will make one more attempt to close with victory, and if that fails I will make another. Never will I plant the seed of tomorrow's success and gain an insurmountable advantage over those who cease their labor at a prescribed time. When others cease their struggle, then mine will begin, and my harvest will be full. I will persist until I succeed. Nor will I allow yesterday's success to lull me into today's complacency, for this is the great foundation of failure. I will forget the happenings of the day that is gone, whether they were good or bad, and greet the new sun with confidence that this will be the best day of my life. So long as there is breath in me, that long will I persist. For now I know one of the greatest principles of success; if I persist long enough I will win. I will persist. I will win.

Never will I be of concern that my goals are too high for is it not better to aim my spear at the moon and strike only an eagle that to aim my spear at the eagle and strike only a rock?

Nice job getting out under those conditions.

Thanks, Jeff, for taking the time to share that with me. My favorite line was: "I will forget the happenings of the day that is gone, whether they were good or bad, and greet the new sun with confidence that this will be the best day of my life."

"I will persist until I succeed." I love that!!

I LOVE reading your running reports. LOVE IT. You are so detailed I feel like I am there with you (and I wish I was after seeing those great pictures). Winter running is HARD. I have always quit, so this has been an experience for me the last few weeks. I too had to give in to those darn running tights! I HATE tight anything, but I was sold after wearing them once. I feel like a hoochie mama, but oh well---i am a warm hoochie mama!! I found some great tights that are black with a pink stripe down the side. I bought a black under armour shirt, and then all of my pink fleece accessories (a jacket, a vest, gloves, and an ear warmer headband thing). I look darn cute! Go shopping until you can find the cutest tights out there, and then accessorize! You will be loving your cuteness as well!!

Have a good day.

Way to tough it out! We've gotten a bit of wind but no rain so far, so you must be getting all of ours up there :). Just think of all the character you're building with this misery runs!

Freakin' amazing.

Kelli - Thanks for the compliment and for the encouragement. Tights, a necessary evil. Thank goodness I run mostly in the dark in the winter months.

Dale - I live a wind tunnel here. But I'm sure you're now getting the same deluge as we are. Same for tomorrow and Saturday I hear.

Thanks everyone for comments of encouragement. This is the winter I'm going to keep my mileage up!!

Hi Snoqualmie,

Nice pictures the other day -- what a beautiful place to run and train (despite the cold rain). I was thinking about you this morning - and your "tights" problem/question. When it is cold, but not raining you might look into a pair of 'not so tight tights' - Dean has a few pairs by Sport Hill and I have heard younger male runners call them "sport hills" (popular among men who don't like tights). When it is wet, you are better off (and more comfortable ) wearing tights -- I think the bright blue is pretty cool!!

Regarding 20 mile runs. Greg McMillan - who coaches elite athletes as well as slow people like me - gives all of his workouts/schedules by time and not by mileage. Even his elite athletes do their long runs based on time on their feet (rarely more than 2.5 - 3 hours). When they are training for shorter distances or track then their workouts will shift from duration on their feet to intensity (more workouts, possibly less overall duration); when they are training for marathons then their focus will be less on intensity and more on duration.

For me, and I am not a faster runner, when I work on speed I reduce the overall duration (miles) I run and increase the intensity. Someday I hope to be able to work on both, but I am not sure I have had the lifetime aerobic acummulation to be able to do this - for me anyway -- in order to stay healthy (and work the number of hours my job requires) I can only focus my training stimulus one thing at a time.

Take care, stay warm!

Stay dry up there.....we still haven't gotten any rain here so it's obviously all being diverted!

20 mile long run limits certainly don't work for everyone. Maybe that's one coaches philosophy, but I've gone longer and found it useful. I usually like to get one 24 mile long run in a buildup, and many 18-22 milers (at least 5-6, usually more). In any event, the "hard and fast" rules are usually garbage....maybe they apply for some folks but not everyone. Do what works for you. And stay dry (or at least comfortable)!

You're really soggy up there. I really admire you for getting out there in the rain day after day.

I've never run longer than a half marathon, but I fully intend to go beyond 20 in the future as I prepare for my first marathon.

I'll have to check out "Spirit of the Marathon."

Bonnie - thanks for the tip. It sounds a bit like my Adidas pants, my winter gear for the past few years. But no good in rain. Your comments about the 20 milers make sense. It doesn't seem like it would work for really slow people though-- just a half hour or so longer than their 1/2 mar time to prep for 26.2? Glad it's working for you though.

Dale- No rain?? Now that's just not fair. You live in the PNW and you must pay your dues! No free greenery. ;)

Carolyn- This is truly normal for us, but every year it takes some getting used to of course. And this is the year I am meeting it head on. No more peaking out at the dark street when I get up, with hope in my heart to see it dry... I want it to be No Big Deal. I think the tights are going to make a huge difference, if I don't die of embarrassment.

Congratulations on a great workout! I hope you're not as beat as I am. Have a great trip, wherever you're going.

Yeah, you hit cold weather running attire jackpot!! That is a great accomplishments on top of your awesome run today and your even more awesome week!!! Great miles girl, and in cold weather, wind, and rain. you are a real runner!!

Great workout Snoqualmie. Congrats on the 70+ mile week! Thats a nice milestone and good prep for the marathon.

Have a good week.

Nice run!

Don't discount the cumulative effect of weather and a weekly mileage PR on your ability to hold MP at the end of a long run. Hitting a new max miles definitely wears you out and you probably weren't too fresh for today's effort. Good job pushing through the fatigue.

You have done so many runs it the rain it seems but it doesn't stop you. You're tenacity through the elements is inspiring!

I love runs like that! Sorry about the phone call, but I'm glad to hear FIL is going to be ok.

We honeymooned down in Gold Beach at my wife's Aunt's cabin(house). Great place!!

My wife and MIL love to collect small stones down by the beach.

Sounds like you're in a great place!

It sounds like a fantastic run. I'm glad you had that experience. You deserve it.

I love Cannon Beach. Enjoy yourself - wish I were there.

You really are the queen of stormy weather. You are so determined to work out in spite of the elements.

I think you're perfectly justified in calling them threshold miles.

Enjoy the rest of your vacation!

Nice job Snoqualmie. Have you seen any other runners out there while you were running?

Sounds like an adventure ;) Have fun on your vacation! Where are you?

Wow, quite the experience!

Have a good vacation, and tell the weather to go back to where you came from!!!

How about how cold is too cold????

JD - A couple of people walking their dogs but no other runners. Wimps. ;)

Kelli - I am afraid I'll never really test "how cold is cold," since we rarely get anything below 25 around here. A couple of times each winter we'll dip down lower, and a night in the teens is not unheard of, but nothing like Utah. You'll have to do that test and let me know. :)

25's is COLD!!!!!

We don't even do 25 that often, maybe just a few nights in January. Don't you get 20's all the time in UT? You need more wool in your life. :)

This will be my first running winter, I usually quit! But, yes, it gets cold. We will see if I survive. I have been slowly stocking up on a good winter running wardrobe. We ran in 27 degrees one day last week, but it has mostly been in the 40's---where you peel off layers as you run!

Sounds like an eventful run. I think perhaps the rain might have added to the sluggishness.

Nice run :) I got mine in just before the rain started here.

So you actually had dry and calm weather for half your run! Woo hoo! I guess that's a glass half full kind of thing, but it seems like you run in rain more often than not, so I'm excited for you to have been dry, if just for a little while.

I sometimes feel like I'm more sluggish after a rest.

Welcome home. Did you enjoy your vacation?

I had a wonderful time, Carolyn. Thanks for asking! I think I might have the blahs from coming home and facing all my responsibilities again. Also, this morning my DH called my attention to Obama's plan for mandatory national youth service. Several years of involuntary servitude is not what I had planned for my DD and is very disturbing to anyone who loves the US Constitution. How ironic that our first black president wants to implement a form of slavery.

Glad you're back. Where did you hear about the mandatory youth service? Are you getting excited for your next marathon? I hope to see you on Saturday at the race but I can't guarantee that I will be there. My daughter Tori will be there helping Sean's wife Mara.

So you were dry today and I was wet. That's a switch.

I read the op ed you linked to. This is an issue I had not heard about before. We'll have to see whether this was just a pipe dream he put forth during the campaign, or whether something actually comes of it. As it is, my kids are already required to do something like 20 hours of community service in order to graduate from high school. In the spirit of full disclosure, I am an Obama supporter.

Hmmm....interesting perspective on volunteerism. I really hadn't considered the ramifications of making it compulsory. I think I'm still for some form of "mandatory" service to our country; IMHO, too many people take the rights and privileges as American's for granted.

So glad you were dry today.....

I didn't think that Obama meant mandatory volunterism (they don't go together very well,do they?) for everyone, but kinda a throwback to the old ROTC which paid for college tuition. Instead of just the military option, you would have other options of service to the country and the reward would be tutition compensation. Most of our schools require 'service' hours for high school graduation. I am not convinced that is a bad thing - I think too much is taken for granted by today's youth no matter what geographic or economic spectrum they fall into.

It's good that you tried something new, even though the work-to-fun ratio wasn't what you'd have liked.

I find myself constantly thinking of what different places I could run as I drive around town. I was driving a long a street yesterday and remarked to my husband that I haven't run along that street, but it has a really wicked hill. And it's a busy street with not the best sidewalk, so I may or may not try it some day.

23.50 miles is a long way to run. I hope to be able to do that someday when I grow up.

Way to go... that is great miles!!

HOLY COW!!! Great run girl! I am glad the weather was perfect for you. That is a great temperature once you get warmed up and moving (and if you can keep dry.

Great mileage. I, too, get bored with my routes; especially the w/e longer runs. I love exploring. Sounds like your weather was decent, too. Hooray!

Do you have the 'grade' set on Garmin. How and where? Someday I will master this critter.

Great run. I can't imagine doing multiple loops for a long run. I would get to the 2nd or 3rd loop and quite early. Next week I think I am gonna run down the bike path in my area (15 miles one way) and take the bus back lol. Point to point runs are fun and rarely feasible. I still like how you put objectives to your runs, but my friends made fun of me so I stopped, lol. Ah peer pressure.

Great job on your run today. I love my Garmin, I can turn down different streets at will, sometimes it works out but sometimes it doesn't.

Welcome to the tapir ;)

Thanks everyone for great encouragement! I took a bit too long blogging and gasped when I saw the clock -- had to try to "move quickly" - ha - to take a shower and get my DD to her 4H meeting. Just now got home.

Solemate: you choose "set up" in the menu mode and select "grade" for one of your data displays.

I actually had a weird Garmin bug today: my autolap counter (set for 1 mile) got way ahead of the mileage display. In those last couple of miles it was ticking off the miles .75 miles early. I wish.

Thanks re: Garmin. I went to Training 2 to add grade and heart rate since I like time, distance and pace on the default one. Now I just hope it shows up in History.....

I like to go down the parkway then go to centennial park, it's about a mile and a half. There is water there as well as another park on the way. The loop at centennial is about a half mile. You are so right about that climb at the end of a long run with thighbuster hill that last stretch is a tough one. Nice Job!!!

Also, the garmin doesn't always reflect the correct mileage on the steeper hills. Go to motion based.com and sign up. I think this site is now owned by garmin. It will update your mileage with the hill corrections.

Thanks, Jeff! I never heard of that. Great to know.

Oops. To what part exactly of the site should I go? It appears to be in Chinese (non-techie, here). Maybe it's too early in the morning. I'll look again later.

Sorry, I didn't type in the whole thing. Here it is. Just glad I didn't send you to one of those "other" sites. My friend Bruce told me about this site. He uses it because he does mostly trail running and it corrects quite a bit on a mtn. trail. http://www.motionbased.com/

Thanks, Jeff! I'm all signed up, but I'll have to wait a bit longer. The Garmin Training Center software will be Mac-friendly sometime in the next month or two, but not yet.

You're amazing. Really, I'm not just saying that.

Good luck at CIM. That should be a ton of fun. All the runs you do in the morning will pay off. Best of luck!

Enjoy the wx while it lasts....I hear it's leaving us pretty soon :(.

Don't worry about not negative splitting yesterday.....really big hills in long run help you in a different way. It's all good stuff!

You guys are so nice to me! I'll just bury this little bit of negative thinking here in my comments section: I got a little sad yesterday when I went to schedule an April event because I know I have that whole month free -- I'm not expecting to BQ at CIM, and my next opportunity isn't until May or June. I know I'll get there eventually, but it does seem like an unattainable goal sometimes, no matter how hard I work. If I didn't love running just for itself I'd probably be completely discouraged, get fat and die young like all my parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles...

I'm glad to hear that you won the argument with yourself, and that you had nice weather. I agree with JD. You are amazing.

Don't worry about this year BQ. There are plenty of other races to run, and it will come sooner or later. Keep up the running. You are doing a great job.

Way to get up and go...even when you didn't want to!!

Do you want to meet me in Utah in May and run Ogden with me (or ahead of me)? Maybe you could BQ there.

This quote from Southwest 'Spirit' Magazine is on the race website:

Serious runners looking to qualify for the Boston Marathon will improve their chances for success at this race, held about 40 miles from Salt Lake City. You start at an elevation of 5,400 feet with about four miles of downhill course. Plus, the last eight miles are also mostly downhill, so just when you start getting tired, you get this wonderful downhill push. Along the way you can enjoy great mountain views.

Thanks for the invite, Carolyn! That looks like a beautiful course. That much downhill actually scares me a bit (quad alert) but it does seem gradual. I will talk to hubby about it (my travel partner!). The best thing would be meeting you!

You of all people should take advantage of the weather. I sometimes think you live in a monsoon belt. I am glad you wrestled that inner voice; such a hard thing to do! It was my day off today, but I wanted to run just because it was so nice....I cleaned house instead. :-)

I have heard of delayed onset muscle soreness and I'm not surprised that your sore after that long run you did on Sunday. However, I always assumed that the delay was about a day. I've never heard of the delay being two days, but I guess it can be. In any case, you should be better in no time. You're tapering now, right?

I have seen that farcical website recently. I found it by lurking on the marathon page you mentioned. I try to talk about running only to other runners or to people who ask me about it. I haven't had people act annoyed. On the contrary, they seem interested.

Let me know whether you decide to run Ogden with Meadow and me.

I just checked out the discussion on Meadow's thread. I won't bother you any more about Ogden until after CIM.

I'd wager that DOMS is a result of the hilly course you ran. Ice/cold water baths take some dedication, but the 1-2 minutes of agony (until everything goes numb) virtually guarantees that DOMS will be significantly reduced/nonexistant. Starting with just cold water, getting in and letting the numbness settle, *then* dumping in the ice helps take some of the edge off (but not all!).

Couldn't I just have a little Ibuprofen? ;)

You *could* but recent thinking says that may actually *delay* the healing process.

http://runningtowardsthefacts.blogspot.com/2007/12/is-ibuprofen-best-thing-for-muscle.html

***Bubble bursting***

Dang. I hate being cold and wet. Do people keep bags of ice on hand for this? Seems like what's in my ice cube trays wouldn't quite do the job. Thanks for the link. I'm trying to remember where I saw a video of the Goucher's working out with Alberto Salazar, and then getting in a special ice bath they have for the runners. Clothes and all. It was a vertical sort of tub and they both got in.

We've got a fridge with an icemaker that has a fair-sized bin that I'll use. I don't know what temps to aim for but that seems like more than enough for me. Actually, our water is cold to begin with (we're on our own well), so the ice doesn't have much work to do.

Yup, that'd be a whole *lot* of ice cube trays!

You could find a stream/river nearby and do a cold soak there. I've seen plenty of folks online take that route. Just be careful around here you don't get swept away!

Bizarre article; satirical or not! The racial reference is most annoying. I can understand the lack of interest people find with our running goals and accomplishments - not unlike people who do not like 'spectator' sports. But, to have so many negative opinions about the sport (or activity) is amazing. Why can't people just be tolerant and accept people for what they do (and, yes maybe runners need to practice a bit more silence on their daily accomplishments, too). I think so many folks these days have a marathon or half marathon on their bucket list and once that is accomplished (at whatever speed); it is over and they don't run EVER AGAIN....

DOMS - OUCH.....I only had that once quite severely after a downhill 1/2 marathon in which I was inadequately trained. I felt like the Tin Man in Oz for about 5 days. Unfortunately, ice does help.

My buddy Bruce has a hot tub and says that it flushes his system pretty well after a long run.

A couple weeks ago we did an 11.5 mile hard trail run and I thought for sure my legs would be sore. We hit the hot tub and it worked it's magic. No soreness at all. That was after some steep downhills too. We called it the "Hammer of the Quads" Led Zepelin

I'm glad you went to the effort to retype your entry. It's a good one.

I also got Chi Running from the library a while ago, but didn't read the whole thing. I haven't been very consistent about leaning, but sometimes I do it.

I'm interested in the push up program. The shred that I do has some push ups in it and the level I'm doing currently has you do "travelling pushups" where you start with one hand in the normal position and the other hand farther out and back a little so that there's kind of a diagonal between the two hands with respect to the body. You do a push up in that position, then move the outside hand in and the other hand out and do another push up, and so on. She has you do one set of those, then do a different exercise for 30 seconds, then do another set of those. This morning I managed 9 pushups during the first set and 7 during the second set for a total of 16. I was pretty wasted at that point. But I'm thinking that I'm getting tired of the shred. Maybe I'll come up with some other weight training program and incorporate this push up program.

Very interesting. I've heard great reviews of The Shred, but it would cut into my little 15-20 minutes of movie watching that I do with my weights, lol. There are some movies that come from Netflix that my DD is not quite ready for.

My push-up strength is pathetic. I hope to be Push-up Queen by springtime.

Good for you on the pushups. Never have been able to do them. I did BootCamp last year for about 9 months and never achieved success there either!

I agree, the brain does not like getting up at 4:30!! Good job today, and way to miss the rain!

You've got to have at least one of out of cold, or wind, or rain this time of year, I guess. You had the wind today and I had the cold.

Just curious, what is your marathon pace?

There was no way I was going to run out there this morning. The house sounded like it was going to come down and you are out there plugging along. You are a certified nutjob! You are so committed or you should be committed. I mean that in a good way.

MP is 9:20-9:30, though I may only be able to manage 9:45 in the real world. We'll see. :)

Jeff - Running on the beach in Oregon helped a lot in terms of perspective. You definitely have to have a sense of humor though.

I can relate. I've been obsessed with sleep ever since I started increasing my mileage. Speaking of mileage, nice running this week.

It's because you're running so much. I too am obsessed with sleep these days, much to the chagrin of some of the people I live with.

I've got some friends who were going to go see Twilight at midnight last night/this morning. I told them I don't see midnight. I'm not sure what I'll do on New Years Eve this year. It's my oldest sons birthday so we've let him stay up ever since he was fairly small. And this year he's turning 17. Maybe I'll let him invite a friend over and I'll go to bed early.

For your not sleeping soundly, it must be this metaphysical connection we have. I haven't been sleeping soundly either, but I think it's because of this cold I have.

Good luck with your parents' group tonight.

I think the above post says it best. High mileage requires more sleep. I have always been a 5-6 hour a night person. Once I started running 200+ miles a month that was clearly not enough and everything suffered for it. I forced myself to get into the 7-8 hour catagory and have felt way better ever since.

Yes, maybe it's the mileage. As for the past two nights, Wednesday night it was the wind storm and last night it was just an inexplicable wakefulness, with weird dreams in between.

Thanks, JD.

I have always been an 8 hour person and get grouchy on less than 7. I love it when it is cold and you can get under all the covers, quilts, blankets..... I usually sleep with a window open all year long.. I think I could easily become a hermit with my lack of wanting to stay up late at night syndrome. Great running!!!

I am holding good thoughts for you. Congratulations on the run today. Sounds awesome.

Looks like you are doing everything right. You need to be positive but not cocky. If you think you are gonna fall off pace you most certainly will. But if you think its gonna be a piece of cake, even a marathon at marathon pace + 1 minute is not easy, so you will be surprised by the difficulty. You need to run negative or near negative splits. And you simply cannot know what to expect until about half way. Even then you have to hold back and relax, but it starts to become clear how the rest of the race is gonna go down. I assume you have a good nutrition and hydration plan? I take in 600-1000 calories during a marathon. Good luck with the taper.

Super job on the run!! It's PR time baby8)

Your comment about babies sleeping on their tummy was the same thing that happened on all of ours. None of them slept well on their backs. So I made the decision to put them on their tummies so my wife could get some sleep and it worked out after that.

Great workout today! I think you're in great shape. I hope that CIM goes well for you.

Great run today... way to go. I think you will have a fantastic race!!

Lori

Wonderful encouragement -- thanks everyone! Haynes' advice and thoughts about the mental side of racing -- very interesting. "Positive but not cocky." Sounds like a good plan. Nutrition: I've been doing my 22 and 23 milers with 4 or 5 gels, and will just add some sports drink during the middle third of the race. I may not have gotten very much faster in my 15 marathons, but I definitely have learned a lot about my stomach. lol

Well put Haynes...

Snoqualmie, once again, you've prepared yourself well for this race. You've run the mileage, gutted through the workouts (even those that didn't go all that well), and now as you get closer you're starting to see things click. Seeing as how you're only a couple weeks out, it seems like you're peaking at exactly the right time, so go in confident that you'll be able to run a good race.

As for PRs, we all know it depends on so many factors out of our control (weather being high up on the list!), so just stick to your peak & race plan and I'm sure it'll all come together. But definitely get excited!!! Otherwise it wouldn't be any fun :)!

That star software looks pretty cool.

When I was in college I spent a semester in Israel. We took a field trip to Mt. Sinai for an early morning hike. Along the way our bus broke down and we all had to get out and sit along the side of the road while they took care of the bus. It was dark and the Sinai Peninsula is not really populated, and so I saw stars there like I've never seen stars before or sense. It was amazing. We could actually see the "cloudiness" of the Milky Way.

Enjoy your taper.

It looks like motionbased.com is now supporting the big MAC. give it a try. It's kind of nice to see everything on the computer with elevation updates for more accurate distances and pace.

Thanks, Jeff! I appreciate your thinking of me. Unfortunately, the 405 with ANT (an antenna connection) is not supported. In fact, it looks like it may not ever be supported from this statement on the site: "We will support all Garmin fitness, most handheld USB and ANT Agent devices (except ANT Agent on the Mac)." Garmin has really dropped the ball on this one, imo. I wonder if they're getting some kind of kickback from Microsoft. It's ridiculous.

Well if you didn't have the fancy 405 it would work. Darn! How do you like the 405 model? I know that it is quite a bit smaller but somebody else wrote that they had a hard time adjusting it on the run.

I LOVE it. I had the 201 for years and was ecstatic when it went ga-ga on me (I ran 1,053 miles in 11 minutes!) and I "had to" get a new one. Some people do not like the bezel controls, but I have found them to be easy and enjoyable. The 201 was like wearing a deck of cards on my tiny wrist. The 405 isn't exactly small, but it feels much more like a normal watch.

Count your blessings; you have had some good weather lately. The good news is that it is quite nice here too; I haven't seen a long range forecast yet.

Guess I need to get on the Garmin website; just procrastinating doing another web based thing.

Great workout as always and thanks for sharing the sight! I do not homeschool, but I was a teacher so i do a lot of stuff at home with my kids to help them out!!

Solemate - yeah, I'm watching the Folsom/Sacramento reports these days. Seems pretty warm.

The long range weather forecast here is predicting 70s for the day. Early morning can still be in the 30s/40s.... what time does the race start. Check those temps too - you might be pleasantly suprised.

And then there is this little ray of optimism: http://www.runcim.org/data/weather.html

That's great that you bounced back from your long run so quickly. You should be good to go for CIM.

I'm sorry I can't answer your question about peaking, but I'm interested in the answer if someone else can supply it.

I thought I peaked in my early twenties, but then I got a crazy second wind between the ages 38 to 42...

Now that I'm running again, I feel another peak coming.

I know this doesn't answer your question, but I thought I would share anyway.

I wonder how long a peak should last...

Way to go!! that is so great that you are feeling so strong after your long run on Sunday.

Don't know anything about peaking, but I hope I can start soon :)

Lori

I guess we'll need Dale to chime in. He's the one who reminded me in his comment Sunday that I really don't know what it means.

I'm not a big believer in peaking. I think this has a lot to do with how one trains. If you train consistently and gradually increase mileage and maintain the higher mileage then I don't know if there would be a peak. However, I guess if one trains progressively harder and reaches a level of training that can't be maintained very long, followed by a taper and then the race then I suppose that is sort of a peak.

In the case of "Billy" the wood splitter I don't think he had "peaked" since he is not at a level of undue stress, he's just gotten better and better and should be able to maintain his new abilities.

At least that's my take on the subject, I could be missing something.

Do you have a HR monitor with your 405 unit? If so do you keep track of avg. or anything like that?

No, I do not have the HR monitor on mine. I chose the cheaper, non-HR model for several reasons. But the bottom line is that I don't believe I'd train any differently with HR info than I do with perceived exertion.

Oh great, now I've fooled folks into thinking I actually know something. I figured you'd all have caught on by now that I'm making it up as I go too!

First, I think everyone's definition of peaking is different. Most people think peak comes with taper which equals 3 weeks easy before a marathon. I see peaking as getting to the highest fitness level possible, boosted by some mileage reduction at the last minute which helps your body recover a bit more than it has been able to recently.

During your training cycle, you're basically trying to straddle the fine line between optimal and over training....as much as you can handle but not too much. The periodization theories say we can only take so much of this before we need a break....so we give ourselves mini-breaks every few weeks with a reduced mileage week (which I'm bad at and rarely do...full disclosure!) and bigger breaks after our peak race. So our fitness level becomes the mountain, and you're trying to climb the mountain (your training schedule) to arrive at the summit on race day. Just before you summit, you take a quick break at the high base camp to gather your strength for the final push (race day).

After it's over, you need a break. Mentally to give yourself some time away from what you've devoted yourself to the past 18-20-22-24+ weeks, and physical since the marathon is *so* rough on your body. I still have a tough time with this myself, honestly, and don't like backing off too much, but my coach is pretty insistent so I just try to follow "the plan" and hope not to lose too much before starting again.

So to bring it back full circle, if Billy had just about hit his breaking point in January as a wood-cutting machine, then perhaps he'd back off a bit in February but would still be much better at it than in November. And I can attest to the fact that splitting wood is hard work! I can only manage a couple of hours of it before my back and hamstrings are sore :).

Hope this made some sense. And feel free to disagree.....this is just my take on the various stuff I've found on peaking/tapering.

LOL, Dale, you're on the spot now! But thank you for explaining. It makes sense in terms of managing your intensity levels. I don't like the idea of taking a major rest from running (beyond recovery) after a race though. Yeah, if it was wood cutting, maybe.

You were colder today than I was. I'm a cold ear person.

Have a good day before Thanksgiving today.

Brrr....is right. I find that if I keep my chest and fingers warm I am okay until I stop running. It sometimes takes me hours to warm up; even after a HOT shower and warm liquid.