Of Mice and Marathons

December 21, 2024

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Location:

Lake Orion,MI,

Member Since:

Dec 28, 2011

Gender:

Male

Goal Type:

Other

Running Accomplishments:

PRs

16:52 Phillies Charities 5k (2016)

35:52 Beach to Beacon 10k (2015)

58:10 Broad Street 10 Mile (2016)

1:16:02 Philadelphia Rock and Roll Half Marathon (2015)

2:46:54 Philadelphia Marathon (2015)

Personal:

I live in Michigan with my wife, Megan, and our boys, Charlie and Sawyer. I started running in September 2010.

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Miles:	This week:	32.70	Month:	57.70	Year:	1986.65
Miles With Megan Lifetime Miles:						613.75
Miles With The Boys Lifetime Miles:						99.90
Nike Zoom Streak LT4 Mr. Pinks Lifetime Miles:						21.60
Saucony ISO Freedom 3 #2 Lifetime Miles:						253.80
Altra Rivera Lifetime Miles:						357.35
Altra Rivera (Dark Blue) Lifetime Miles:						145.10
Saucony Kinvara 13 Lifetime Miles:						465.10
Saucony Endorphin Pro Lifetime Miles:						287.00
Active 88 Boulder Lifetime Miles:						5.00
Saucony Freedom 5 Lifetime Miles:						304.80
Saucony Kinvara 13 #2 Lifetime Miles:						310.95
Saucony Endorphin Pro White Lifetime Miles:						23.40
Kinvara 14 Blue/Grey Lifetime Miles:						64.50
Saucony Ride Teal Lifetime Miles:						23.40
Saucony KInvara 14 Yellow Lifetime Miles:						12.40
Nike XC Flats Lifetime Miles:						4.10
Active 88 Boulder Lifetime Miles:						13.10

Wed, Sep 05, 2012

Easy Miles	Marathon Pace Miles	Threshold Miles	VO2 Max Miles	Total Distance
7.41	0.00	7.00	0.00	14.41

AM: 2.4 miles up to Courtland, strides, and dynamic stretching. 7 x 1 mile threshold with 90 second jog/walk recoveries: 6:37, 6:38, 6:38, 6:39, 6:40, 6:37, 6:33 (bit of downhill with some rollers on the last two). Walked to cool down.

A little bit ambitious in the saturated air (and maybe generally), but I hit my goal of 6:38 with 6:37.1. I went against coach Bam's suggestion a little bit with the workout itself, but it has the same spirit (make marathon pace feel easy) and also does some work toward getting close to 25 seconds between marathon pace and half pace (next half two 10 days out).

PM: Old Standby shorty version - 4.25 miles, averaged 8:03

Newton New Racers Miles: 4.25	Newton MV2 Miles: 10.16

Weight: 0.00

Comments

From Bam on Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 06:33:43 from 89.204.161.78

Nice session, Jason.

I actually prefer the session you've done to the aerobic capacity stuff (5k pace)at your stage of training.

I'd be in favour of starting off with aerobic capacity training, so that half marathon and mp are not a strain when the tempo runs etc start.

After aerobic capacity work, the speed stuff should focus on extending the speed and trying to reduce the time between half marathon pace and mp - through lactate clearance sessions and several other methods. So your session is pretty much what you should be doing.

It's important to be able to cope with mp before getting stuck into marathon training and that's what you're doing.

What I do not believe in is running 5k's and 10k's close to a marathon. I can feel the scowls. Here's why:

How can you be in mint condition for 5k and 10k if you're about to race a marathon? Different energy systems. So racing a 5k/10k near the marathon is teaching your body to use the wrong energy system - this is one of the main reasons, imo, why so many people struggle towards the end of the marathon.

Get the speed first (aerobic capacity stuff: 4x1mile; 5x1000m etc).

Extend the speed with short recoveries (long reps: 6x2 miles; 4x3miles; 3x4miles).

Get comfortable at the speed (tempo runs incorporated into the second half of long runs - there are many other sessions that help this stage, which are much more interesting and better than the bog standard 10 mile tempo run @ mp).

Reduce the speed between half and full pace (long reps at half pace, recover at mp. Again, there are loads of sessions that help in this phase).

Simples. But there are many more ingredients to the marathon recipe...

From Jason D on Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 17:17:26 from 24.1.80.94

It's basically long runs, tempos at goal pace, and some longer intervals at half marathon pace from here on out for me.

I think for newer runners there is some benefit to speedwork throughout a good deal of the training. I guess when you are already fast you can focus more on marathon specific stuff. For instance, I know Paul doesn't do anything shorter than 1000s, but of course he already has the speed. Someone who is trying to learn to run at 5-minute-range pace can benefit from the shorter intervals. (But I guess if they aren't running that fast for the marathon why not wait until the next cycle???)

I also think it's good to draw on different systems, but I haven't figured out how successful I can be with a shorter race or session close to a marathon. I do think you can run some great 5k and 10ks off of marathon training (Jon made a comment about his 5k PR being of of ultra training in which he did nothing faster than marathon pace tempos).

All of this to say I've moved into the more marathon specific stuff with a pinch of HMP stuff sprinkled in to keep marathon pace feeling comfortable. Still need to get the longer long runs in...

I like the idea of marathon pace mile in long runs as well. Every long run I do will have a handful of MP miles in there leading up to something like a 10 + 10 (10 moderate, finished off with 10 mile tempo @ MGP).

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