M'kay

Turkey Trot 10K (Carnation, WA)

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Location:

Eatonville,WA,USA

Member Since:

Nov 01, 2007

Gender:

Male

Goal Type:

Age Division Winner

Running Accomplishments:

Short-Term Running Goals:

Regain consistency.

Build up slowly and come out strong.

Regain "speed" (relative)

Finish WR50 again.

Improve at Cascade Crest. 

2013 Races:

  • Capital Peak Mega Fat Ass 17M (1/19) - 2:48:48
  • Yakima Skyline Rim 50K (4/21) - 7:16:20
  • Grey Rock 50K (5/13)
  • White River 50M (7/27)
  • Cascade Crest 100M (8/24-25)

 

Long-Term Running Goals:

Find my true running potential, then exceed it.

Favorite Blogs:

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Miles:This week: 0.00 Month: 0.00 Year: 0.00
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Altra Provision Lifetime Miles: 139.73
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Hoka Bondi 2 Lifetime Miles: 706.15
Hoka Mafate 3 Lifetime Miles: 81.12
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
471.4832.2046.205.28555.16
Night Sleep Time: 81.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 81.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

Recovery Run. Hard to maintain recovery HR headed uphill today, and encountered worst case of Runner's Trots yet...need to figure out how to prevent this!!!  Managed to not get bitten by aggressive dog (called owner...again) out and back. Hope to be well rested for tomorrow's Tempo Run.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From MichelleL on Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 16:19:05

Welcome to the Blog!

Some aggressive goals there, but if you don't set the goal you can't do it. All of your PR's are last year, so are you new to running?

If an owner doesn't respond to your feedback, it's time to call animal control. Dogs are so annoying to runners -- and downright scary to alot of us.

From Dale on Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 16:25:55

Thanks for the welcome. Yes, relatively new...been running steadily for about a year and a half, so I'm still enjoying the "low hanging fruit" so-to-speak.

I live in the country, so I'm used to dogs being off-leash...this particular one appears like she might really want a taste of me, but I'm really trying to work with the neighbor. Today's the last chance before I call animal control...at least, that's what I'm telling myself today.

As for goals? Yes, definitely aggressive. I managed to cut 29+ minutes off my first marathon's time after 6 months consistent training for Portland, despite the fact that I ran with the pacer, not my head, and blew up in the last 10K, so I think can at least find the 4 minutes I need for Seattle (despite somewhat late hills). Gotta have goals so you can either meet them and set new ones, or miss them and work harder for the next time.

From ArmyRunner on Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 17:31:23

Welcome to FRB. I really like the "Find my true running potential, once there, exceed it!" This is great. There are a lot of guys with your same goal to break 3 hours and many more that have done it on the blog so you should find a lot of support and helpful advice along your way.

From Sasha Pachev on Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 18:58:25

Dale - welcome to the blog!

From Jim on Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 17:48:29

Dale,

Welcome to the blog. I'm also trying to break 3:00 in the marathon. We have very similar PR's for the half so it will be interesting to follow your progress.

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
4.000.006.000.0010.00

2 mi warmup, 6 mi Hill Tempo Run, 2 mi cooldown.

Better (more even) effort on tempo portion through hills, but hard run nonetheless.  Must remember to periodically stretch legs on long car trip today, or I'll pay tomorrow. 

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From James on Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 13:59:15

Welcome to the blog! You have some good goals, I'm sure this blog will help you with your motivation to achieve them.

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

In Pullman w/ family visiting daughter at WSU.  Recovery run at easy pace.  Is asphalt in WSU harder than back home??? Sure felt that way.  Forerunner went on the fritz after easy run, so 6x100m Striders done by feel but not recorded.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
20.000.000.000.0020.00

20 Mi Long run from Pullman, WA to Moscow, ID along Chapman trail and thru UofI campus.  Mostly flat (slight incline 1st half), with a decent hill halfway that I went up and down twice.

Increased pace in last half.  Effort last few miles grew considerably.  Bad hydration plan yesterday, and no so great sleep last night probably made this run tougher than it should have been.  Last 20 miler before Seattle Marathon. 

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From jtshad on Mon, Nov 05, 2007 at 14:45:56

Welcome to the blog. Noticed your running route for Sunday...I went to UofI (long time ago!) and your note made me a bit nostalgic for Moscow. Good luck at the Seattle Marathon...based on your Portland result, you are right there.

From Dale on Tue, Nov 06, 2007 at 10:54:20

Thanks. Was out visiting our daughter at WSU, so the route was new to me but pretty nice. Felt a little "Forrest Gump-ish" with all the open fields and all for a while, but the UofI campus looked very nice.

I'm hoping the few additional weeks training plus a better pace plan will help me squeeze out the extra minutes on a (reportedly) hillier course. We shall see....

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

Recovery Run at 8:56 pace.  Nice easy run thru WSU campus.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
6.930.000.002.289.21

3 mile warmup at 7:58/mi pace.

6x600m intervals with 90 sec recovery in 2:21, 2:20, 2:21, 2:21, 2:18, 2:18. (5K pace).

3 mile cooldown at  8:20/mi pace.

Intervals felt pretty easy (relatively) and breathing only got intense towards end of each.  Good to feel like I've got some juice left.

Having some left abductor muscle soreness probably since I'm running weekly mileage at my upper limit.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
13.000.000.000.0013.00

Good easy run at 7:58/mi pace. Temps a bit warmer and much more humid than normal contributing to higher HR than normal for the effort (which was easy). Actually, legs felt good even after yesterday's Intervals....no deadness whatsoever.

Some tightness in upper-left quad that never really worked out during the run. Also some tightness on left knee outside (ITB), so some definite quality stretching after run was in order. Did some plyometric drills (high knees, butt kicks, skipping) after run.

Last non-recovery run before 10K this weekend (one and only tune-up race between Portland and Seattle marathons). Am aiming to:

1 - PR at this distance, and

2 - Break the magic 40 minute mark. Well, maybe not magic, but it's going down!!!

These longer aerobic runs at closer to MP have become easier after Portland. I believe my hopes that I could use that race as a very high-quality workout and springboard to the small performance increase I need to break 3:15 are on target. Now, I'll just need a good 10K race for a confidence booster, one last 17 miler on Sunday, and 2 weeks of quality taper and I'll be set.

Also decided it was high time to start figuring out how much fluid I lose on runs. So far for all my training and races, I go "by feel", which obviously is imprecise since I don't know how it feels until it's "too late". So with today's run under temps of ~ 53 and high humidity (> 80%) at an easy pace lasting 1:43 I lost 3.8 lbs. Wow. Guess I need to track this a bit more often under different conditions and paces to really nail down how much fluid I should be taking in during races.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From Aaron on Wed, Nov 07, 2007 at 22:00:19

Dale--

There's a couple of us in Western WA who will be running Seattle. I'm also going to try and BQ (though looking at your training I think you may have the better shot). If you'll be in town before then and are interested in hooking up for a taper run, drop a line, otherwise maybe we can meet up at the starting line.

From Dale on Wed, Nov 07, 2007 at 22:26:52

Aaron,

Thanks for the invite. I'm close enough that I'm planning on driving to Seattle the morning of the race. Not sure where you're at...I'm up for some easy runs over the next couple of weeks, but I'm out in Eatonville which isn't near much (aside from Mt. Rainier). Plus, I generally run around lunchtime so I can break up my workday a bit.

Am definitely interested in linking up for the race though...are you a 3:15 BQ'er? I'm recovering from Portland where I went out fast with the 3:10 rabbit, who went out doing sub-7s for the first few miles, and needless to say, miles 19 and beyond got ugly. I don't want to make that mistake again, but am cautious of the late hills in this race, so I'm up for ideas on pacing.

Are you running a tune-up race? I'm going to run a 10K in Carnation, WA this Saturday as a final tune-up before taper begins in earnest (well, okay, and a 17 miler on Sunday, and THEN a serious taper). Didn't choose that 10k for any reason other than it's the only one I could find.

From Aaron on Wed, Nov 07, 2007 at 22:55:56

Well, 3:15:59--and I plan to use all of it. Maybe we can hook up out your way in Dec or January if the weather isn't too foul. I'm always glad to run in beautiful places!

My plan was to go out at 7:40 or thereabouts and then hit 7:00-7:10 between the floating bridge and the hill. If that works for you it would be great to have someone running my speed. Drop me an email ashakow at gmail.com as the date approaches and I'll send you my cell number so we can make a plan to meet beforehand.

No official tune-up planned, since I've been struggling a bit with plantar fasciitis. Planning a fast 5k on Friday around Greenlake, that's about it.

From Dale on Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 11:12:11

My email is dale.marchand@gmail.com.

I’ll have to relook the elevation map, but my instinct is saying I need to keep my pace in the 7:14 range unless it’s a downhill section. I wound up inadvertently “banking time” in Portland and dying for the last 10k, a mistake I don’t want to repeat. Of course, the hills on the profile after 21m are scaring the heck out of me, especially since I’ve never seen this course before. I know 7:27 miles gets me 3:15, and McMillan says I can run 7:14 miles, so I was thinking of starting out (after 1-2 mile warmup at whatever feels comfy) running 7:14s on the flats, a bit faster on the downhills, and whatever felt like it wouldn’t make me die on the uphills. After bonking bad on the last one, I’m hoping more aggressive refueling and a more pedestrian pace will carry the day.

Just curious. Why the aggressive middle miles on the flat? Whatever will work for you, I’m just wondering because that strategy has backfired on me in the past, but maybe I can learn something!

Sorry to hear about the injury...I've been blessed for almost a year now but I feel for you (injuries are why Seattle wasn't my first marathon last year).

From Dave Holt on Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 12:59:51

Good luck on hitting that 10K barrier down!

From Aaron on Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 13:25:31

Well, it's a bit of a balance isn't it between leaving enough wiggle room to slow down on the last 10k and not wearing one's self out. Right or wrong, my logic was that 7:10 is not really much more of a strain than 7:15, and gains me about two and a half minutes to play with. I'm expecting to do about eight-something on the hill, which is not too daunting except that it comes so very late. Anyway, I'd give 7:14 a try for the first half at least and see how I'm feeling after that. As for the PF, it's very manageable if I'm sensitive to it. I just didn't want to risk anything this close to the marathon.

From Dale on Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 15:06:15

Dave: Thanks!

Aaron: Sounds like you know more about the course than I, so you're logic is probably more sound than mine. I'm just very very leery of blowing off too much energy too early, and it'd be nice to have a fairly evenly paced marathon instead of my past 2 experiences. Anyway, I'm sure I'll come up with and discard another dozen or so ideas before the race.

Glad to hear your PF is under control. Don't blame you for playing it safe one bit. Guess I just need some (mind) reassurance before the SM that I'm still on track, especially since I'm trying to bounce back fairly quickly from an aggressive Portland run.

From Sasha Pachev on Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 12:45:08

Thoughts on hydration. From my experience I believe it is not so much about how much water you take in during the run, as it is about being healthy enough (for lack of a better word) to be able to:

a) accumulate adequate water supply in the body from regular diet prior to the run/race

b) use the water efficiently during the race/run

c) replenish efficiently during the race

d) run well when the water supplies are low

It all goes back to the health of the body, and it is developed overtime with training and healthy diet. I've discovered through a number of experiences that you cannot force-hydrate before or during a race. If your body is not healthy enough to take it, you will just lose it, and it will actually be a minus because you lose electrolytes as well. On the other hand, a healthy body can do very well without additional supplies. I hardly ever take anything during my long runs, and they are pretty hard - lately 20 miles with first 10 uphill at a brisk easy pace, and the last 10 downhill at aggressive marathon pace. This is not what I would do in a marathon race, I believe giving your body a chance to replenish is a good idea, but for me the hassle of putting the supplies out on the course or carrying them is not worth it. I would do it, though, if it was convenient.

From Dale on Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 12:56:02

Good points. I rarely take fluids on training runs...generally only those lasting more than 2 hrs (excepting runs in the summer...I 'suffer' much more in the heat, which for me is 65+). I've noticed that I've gotten stronger on runs that deplete my water/energy reserves over time (a trend I hope continues with regular training).

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.720.000.000.007.72

7 mile recovery run at 8:44/mi pace, followed by 6x100m Striders w/ 100m rest.

Despite blogging in the forums about using my Garmin 305 HR monitor to keep my HR low for recovery runs, I blew it on the uphill stretch and pushed a bit too hard (as reminded by the constant beeping which I evidently ignored) so my overall recovery pace was on the fast side. Overall though, the effort was very light.

Still some 'twinges' from my left quad....this time in the center of the muscle, not the top. Strange, but didn't affect my run at all. Also some left achilles stiffness...need to watch that since that was an old injury site back when I started running.

Striders were in :16, :18, :18, :18, :17, :18. Weird, since the first one felt the slowest.

Followed up with some core and upper-body exercises and a healthy dose of stretching.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

1:02:41 (8:57/mi) Recovery Run. 

Nice and easy today, with little difficulty keeping HR under recovery threshold up and down the hill.  Smack in the middle of my recovery pace.

Despite the dire forecast, gorgeous conditions.  Mostly sunny and 50+ instead of rainy, cloudy, and 40.  Gotta love the NW!

Some 'tension' in my outer left leg.  This seems to have moved around my left leg the past week...nothing that is causing me to worry too much (or stop running), but starting to make me wonder what's going on.  Got some good stretching in again post run.

Ready for tomorrow's 10K.  (Ready for everything except the 5am wakeup and the 2 hour drive to get there!).  

 On another note, my dog problem seems to have gotten fixed.  She's been restrained to her property for the past 3 days straight now.  I feel bad that she's on a line instead of running free, but do feel better than it's better odds I'll come home in one piece from here on out.
 

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From Kim on Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 17:53:26

I'm glad the dog issue looks to be settled. And not just for your sake. The owners wouldn't have been in very good shape if the dog had attacked you, (or some little kid!). It's also safer for the dog! You did everyone a favor by making them be responsible pet owners!

From Dale on Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 18:16:46

Thanks. I know that deep down inside, but the pet lover in me doesn't like to see animals tied up...especially dogs used to roaming free. We've got ours in a big fenced in yard, ever since one led me on a 1.5 hour trek thru the surrounding forest looking for her when we first moved here, only to pop out behind me when I'd given up hope of tracking her down (tail wagging wildly, of course).

Anyway, problem solved WITHOUT the need to involve the county (was really really really trying to avoid that!), so I do feel like a good neighbor! Plus, now my HR doesn't spike on a particular part of my run anymore.

From Ian on Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 06:59:30

Good luck for your 10k today!

From Dale on Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 20:24:09

Thanks! It went well and I managed to PR on a not so easy as I'd thought course. All in all, a good day.

Race: Turkey Trot 10K (Carnation, WA) (6.2 Miles) 00:40:04, Place overall: 5, Place in age division: 2
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
4.500.006.200.0010.70

Garmin Splits: 6:26, 6:22, 6:38, 6:34, 6:30, 6:20, 1:11.

Day began with an early (5am) wakeup, a bagel, banana, some juice, coffee, and prepping the dogs and ferrets to survive the morning cooped up in the house. Also saw my wife prepping to depart on a 2 day horse hunting trip (yes, that's horse, not house). At 6am, I was off on my 2 hour drive to Carnation, WA to the site of the 10k. One potty stop and 2 hours later, I was there.

A quick and painless registration, oriented myself to the start line and the restrooms, and got myself warmed up with a nice easy 2 mile run. Since some intermittent rain had fallen, decided to keep my hat and gloves to go along with tshirt and shorts. Temps were near 50F and mostly cloudy, so relatively ideal weather. Wandered around waiting for a while, then as the race got closer, ran another 1/2 mile with some Striders thrown in to stay warm. Found a good place in the starting pack (5k and 10k started together) and waited for the horn. Right around 9am, we were off!

The crowded start kept things slow for about 1/4 mile as we run down a driveway, thru a parking lot, over some grass, and onto a track. Here it started to open up as we crossed some more grass, ran up some steep railroad tie steps and turned right onto a gravel trail. Settled in at a comfortably hard pace. After running on the gravel trail for a while, descend a short but steep dirt track that took us from the high trail ground to a crossing road below. Followed the road into a park, where the road turned to dirt at around the 1 mi mark.

The road remained fairly level for the next mile and I settled in several paces behind a female runner (who became my pacer) that appeared to be running at about my same speed fairly easily. We were slowly picking off other 5k and 10k runners as we made the loop, but my effort increased out of the "comfortably hard" and starting getting into "just hard" territory. I focused on good belly breathing that I've been practicing and managed to keep a good pace through the 2 mile mark. Shortly thereafter, the 5k and 10k paths split, with 10k'ers being directed "up the hill". Oh boy!

The next 2 miles were an out and back along more dirt road trails, this time over "rolling hills". Some were steep enough that I had to run short downhill stretches a bit slower to keep my footing over the wet dirt and rock ground. On the outbound stretch, my pacer and I passed one last 10k runner. I remember seeing 2 10k'ers ahead of us and thinking "I'm in 4th! If I can pass her, I'll take 3rd!" Unfortunately, in my oxygen-deprived state, I later discovered that I'd managed to miss the fact that 2 other runners were ahead of me and ran right by me going the other way!

On the return trip from the turnaround point, my pacer almost took a wrong turn, causing me to holler (gasp) "LEFT!", which caused her to jump briefly and return to the proper trail. Several times over the hilly terrain I'd almost catch and pass her, only to fall behind a few steps again. We hit the flat portion again after the 4 mi marker and increased the speed a bit over the flat terrain. Effort now was definitely hard and it took all I had to keep in a 2-2 deep breathing rhythm. Just after the 5 mi marker, my pacer again almost took a wrong turn, and this time a feebler "RIGHT!" plus a volunteer who first looked confused but then started pointing got her back on track. We hit the paved street briefly, climbed the steep (and slippery) trail up to the gravel trail and I started pouring on the little I'd been holding back. I finally managed to pass my pacer here kept it redlined down the gravel trail. The 10k route had rejoined the 5k route, and dodging slower 5k runners and other regular trail users became an small issue. The 10k route continued past the turnoff point another 150 meters or so to another 180 degree turnaround, then back to the turnoff.

After a brief descent, I found myself running across wet grass complete with big slippery leaves. This probably warranted some caution, but I was really trying to break 40 minutes and knew I was behind from the hilly miles. A couple of slips but no falls took me through the 6 mile mark, and I headed back over the track towards the parking lot and driveway towards where the finish was located. I poured it on at this point, sprinting (or some semblance of a sprint) towards the finish. 40:04, a few seconds over my sub-40 goal time, but well under my 10k PR from August 07 and given the course conditions, an effort I'm very proud of.

After catching my breath, I congratulated my pacer (who had done a great job pushing me faster through the entire race), and slowly ran another 2 easy miles to cool down. After waiting around for the 10k results to post and the awards ceremony (at this point, I'd still thought I'd taken 3rd...only later when talking with one of the faster 10k'ers did I vaguely recall the other 2 10k runners I'd overlooked in my oxygen-deprived state!), I picked up my 2nd place (age-group) ribbon, ate some free food, watched some excellent middle-school gymnasts perform, and headed back home by way of a Taco Time and the Brooks Outlet store (where I treated myself to some discounted runner's kit for my efforts and my birthday!).

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From jtshad on Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 20:31:38

Great race and congrats on the new PR...and happy birthday!

From Michael on Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 20:32:56

Congrats on a good race and time. Sounds like a tough course. And Happy Birthday too

Eatonville huh - I lived in Raymond Washington during high school and I remember playing Eatonville several times in basketball at District. I still come up to see family in Wash. and have done a few races up there

From Tom on Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 20:33:02

Great job on the race and congrats on the PR. Looks like you're right on schedule for hitting your 2008 goals.

From Dale on Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 20:48:54

Thanks all.

Michael: First, congrats on your own PR today! Raymond, WA huh? I had to Google it since I'd never heard of it, but that's about how it is with Eatonville too.

Tom: I hope so. Another 10K'er today painted a pretty gloomy picture of the Seattle Marathon course (late hills) and how likely it is I'll break 3:15 there (he was much more tactiful about his comments, of course), so I hope this race is a good sign a more even race effort will help me carry the day on Nov 25th.

From Sasha Pachev on Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 20:50:29

Good birthday present. I think you should be able to really rock in your next marathon. The speed is there, it is just a matter of holding it. And you did break your 5 K PR as well.

From Dale on Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 21:08:14

Sasha,

You hit the nail on the head. Somehow, I've got to either push back or push thru the wall I hit in Portland a month ago for this next one. I'm counting on more carbs on the run and more even pacing to help me push through.

From Ian on Sun, Nov 11, 2007 at 03:14:00

Congratulations, now thats a perfect way to spend a birthday.

From Lisa on Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 21:00:23

Hey Nice work on your b-day! I also ran this - a first-time trail run. How much do you find the trails affect your typical road time (pace-wise)?

p.s. We have the same b-day! Pretty cool! :)

From Dale on Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 21:31:52

Thanks. I honestly don't really know how much the trails in this one affected time. This was only my 3rd 10k and each has been so different. It's also my first race on trails, although I do some trail training.

In my training, I've found the steeper nature of the trails I've run has tended to slow my pace down overall, but taking the steepness factor out, probably not too much. I'd like to think that the two 180 turns and the steep climb onto the gravel trail in this race cost me the 5 seconds I needed to break 40 minutes :)

So were you the one that got the prize for having a b-day when they were announcing 5k winners? If so, you definitely beat me in getting your hand up quicker!

From Lisa on Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 22:57:26

Well, thanks very much for the insights. Funny...also my 3rd 10k! Have been struggling w/an injury, but am coming back...trails have really been helping.

Yep, indeed! It 'twas I who "beat" you to the b-day prize. ;) All in good fun! See you at the next run or two!

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
17.000.000.000.0017.00

Woke up after 11 hrs sleep with headache from yesterday. Obviously needed the rest. Ate a bagel, OJ, banana and waited for the headache to fade. 1 hr before run, took 2 tylenol.

Felt surprisingly good (other than headache) for having raced 10k yesterday. Have never run particularly good long runs on the days after races in the past. Often struggled and other times cut the long run short. Didn't feel like that would be the case today.

Decided to run up and down Scott Turner twice (9 mi round trip 1st time, 8 mi round trip the 2nd). Outbound legs gain about 500 feet elevation total with rolling hills throughout.

Outbound trip felt good, so kept pace relatively fast with loose and easy effort. Outbound avg was 8:17/mi. Hit halfway point in w/ 7:43/mi avg pace (PMP +:32; GMP + :16). Finally shook the headache somewhere near the halfway mark. Drank some powerade at my stash at the halfway point, which was the extent of my rehydration plan.

Second trip outbound, legs started feeling a bit tired....about what I'd expected for the start of the run today, given the race yesterday, so not bad overall. Decided to increase pace/effort for second half, but stay within the easy realm (okay, so maybe moderately/hard easy, but still "easy").

Second outbound trip in about 8:04/mi pace. Still felt pretty good and loose most of the way, but started tiring the last uphill mile. Ran across neighbor walking dog in last mile, asking how far I was going. I replied "13 miles on my way to 17". On my return trip, she called out "I'm proud of how far you're running!" Now, I don't really know this neighbor other than I've seen her driving up/down the road before, so needless to say this anonymous boost helped me stay focused on staying loose and knocking out the miles. Started feeling my leg muscles the last couple of miles, and last mile I started gradually feeling like I was running low on gas (some mild brain fog). 2nd (downhill) return leg was in 7:03/mi.

2nd half pace was 7:33/mi (PMP + 0:22, GMP + 0:06). Overall pace for run was 7:38/mi (PMP + 0:27, GMP + 0:11). Great confidence booster given the 10k race yesterday, how I felt before and after this run, and the aggressive pace. Now I need to sit down and settle on a race strategy for the marathon, and let the taper do it's work, without suffering from the normal stress and self-doubt period I inevitably experience during taper.

I'm thinking I'll keep my mileage a bit higher than normal for the taper, since my last taper felt like I cut too far back and was a bit sluggish the last week. Will see how that works out.  Also put a few long run miles on my new Adrenaline shoes to make sure I had no issues.  I plan to save them now for the marathon...they felt great!

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From Paul Ivory on Sun, Nov 11, 2007 at 19:21:32

Dale, you had an awesome 10K yesterday with great pace times! Goodness with those times for a 10K doesn't it predict a 3:15 marathon?

From Dale on Sun, Nov 11, 2007 at 19:26:54

Thanks.

You'd think the times would, but my "equivalent time predictions" have so far fallen apart once I reached marathon distance. For my first, the charts said 3:30, and I wound up w/ 3:48. For my second, the charts said 3:09, but I wound up with 3:19. I seem to have a problem with "the fade", which I'm really trying to work on. Anyway, Seattle's got some late hills, but my 10k time does predict a 3:08, so I'm hoping some even pacing and better carbing on the run will carry the day. We shall see 2 weeks from today...

From Sasha Pachev on Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 12:30:34

Dale - it takes a while before you develop the ability to sustain the pace that your 10 K predicts in the marathon. Note that the conversion tables are developed usually from the performances of runners that have trained at 80+ miles a week for years. So you just need to be patient and take your time. However, as your 10 K speed increases, you will have a bigger cushion in the marathon for a BQ.

From Dale on Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 12:49:13

I wish patience was one of my virtues :) I know I should be happy with how far I've come on running for just 1.5 years now, and really only 1 year with any consistency, but I'm just hungry for more, faster, better.

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

Recovery run in ugly weather (rain, wind) this afternoon.  No idea pace/time since my garmin died around mi 3, probably since the power went out last night and just came back on before I left.  My laptop has a nasty habit of turning my garmin on when I shut the lid and it hibernates.  Kept the effort very easy (recovery zone) throughout.  Felt like a sauna heading up the hill and I thought I'd worn too many clothes.  Coming back down the hill, the wind, rain, etc. picked up and it got colder, and then it felt like I didn't wear enough.

Did some plyometric drills after run.  Then clean a couple of clogged gutters since I was soaked anyway. 


 

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
10.000.000.000.0010.00

Woke up with my hamstrings sore from some new exercises (lunges) I started yesterday after my run....guess I need to do more so they don't make me sore in the future.

9 mile easy effort run followed by 8x100m Strides w/ 100m rest. 9 mi pace was 7:54/mi, right in the middle of my easy run pace. Striders run in :16, :16, :17, :17, :19, :17, :17, :18.

Run was marred by yet another dog encounter (guess my problem isn't solved) and by smoke from logging cleanup fires across the roadway....tried to slow down and only nose-breath for about 1/2 mile to prevent completely polluting my lungs, but since I smell like smoke, I'm sure it did no good. Other than that, good run.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

A nice and easy recovery run.  A bit of difficulty keeping it slow enough on the uphills to keep my HR down, especially with the windy/gusty conditions, but all in all a nice and easy effort.

Followed up with some plyometric drills and some lunges.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From David on Thu, Nov 15, 2007 at 00:09:28

Dale --

Welcome to the blog, I just noticed the 'WA' next to your name. My count says there are four of us here now. I'm in Bremerton, but judging by your race calendar I'd imagine we'll run into each other somewhere in the state in the next few months. I'll be at the Seattle Marathon encouraging others, if you know your # I'll look for you.

From Dale on Thu, Nov 15, 2007 at 11:16:10

Thanks. There's at least a few of us on the board, and I think a lurker or 2 who haven't joined yet. I'm sure we'll wind up running (pun absolutely intended) across one another once the race season starts back up next year. I'm going to take a bit of a break after the SM, then get back into some good base training.

I don't have a bib # yet....I'm guessing probably at packet pickup, but if I can remind myself, I'll post it. I'm going to try to link up with Aaron on the 25th since we seem to have similar time goals.

From David on Sat, Nov 17, 2007 at 16:24:39

Cool. I'm planning to jump in the race around mile 19 to run with Aaron a bit, so I'll see you there.

From Dale on Sat, Nov 17, 2007 at 16:36:31

Excellent. You'll either see a well oiled machine or a red rider wagon with 3 wheels missing grinding out the final miles :) Since I've already imitated option #2, I'm really hoping for option #1 this time around!

From Dale on Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 18:38:38

According to the website, my bib # will be 1229.

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
6.330.000.003.009.33

Tough wake-up this morning, tired. Wound up working thru normal lunch/run-time and didn't get started until nearly 1pm.

Today is last VO2Max workout (warmup, 3x1mi intervals, cooldown) before Seattle 07. Decided to run on roads instead of heading down to the track. 3 mi warmup felt a bit tougher than normal, but discarded as being in my head.

Intervals in 6:29, 6:20, 6:00. Target pace was 6:12 for level ground. 1st interval uphill...very tough and couldn't have held pace past the 1 mile mark. Started feeling some significant GI distress towards the end. Walked the 2 minute rest. Second interval half uphill, half downhill. Tough judging proper pace w/ rolling hills...wound up out too fast uphill, took a 10 second pause (to avoid puking), continued out and back in 6:20 overall (slow). Some bad GI distress.....considered terminating intervals, but took an extra 1 min rest. Third interval mostly downhill (some flat) in 6:00. Probably should've run it a bit faster given the downhills, but with GI distress best I could manage. Average interval pace 6:16. Slow end of new range, but dead middle of old training ranges (prior to 10k race adjustment), so not too bad.

Continued on 3 mi cooldown (with interruption at 1 mi mark for a bathroom break). Again, cooldown tougher than normal. Need to take it easy the next few days; next significant workout scheduled is13 miler this Sunday, so should be in good shape to recover.

Not my best workout ever, but I managed.

Assessment later in the day:  Boy, did that hurt.  Effort definitely took quite a bit out of me...trouble concentrating for the rest of the day.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

Still feeling the effects from yesterday's hard effort in my GI system, but no real soreness or pain anywhere in muscles. Kept today's recovery run very easy (8:55/mi avg pace); no problems keeping HR below threshold going uphill, and despite speeding up it stayed very low on the downhill. Pace in middle of recovery zone (getting very good at judging this pace on this course).

Core exercises following run, then some stretching.

Doubts started surfacing during today's run as my mind wandered (of course)...probably due to yesterday's "felt like disaster" run. Kept knocking them down as fast as they surfaced, but it'll be a struggle not to push too hard on a run (to prove to myself that I'm ready) between now and next Sunday. Must stay focused!

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
8.000.000.000.008.00

7 mile recovery run (9:00/mi, 4 uphill, 3 downhill), followed by 8x100m Striders w/ 100m rest (Striders in :17, :18, :17, :17, :18, :18, :17, :16).  Felt strong out of the gate, but ran into difficulty keeping HR below threshold on uphills.  Being overdressed for the wx probably didn't help (when will I learn?)

Pre-marathon phantom pains started this morning with the left knee and my right foot (under the arch).  Quickly disappeared after I started running, and haven't returned yet.  At least I recognize them for what they are.

Striders felt particular good today.  Very loose, very relaxed.  Walked most of the rest to get HR back down before next stride, but probably best set of Striders I've ever done.  Good omen.

Another good omen.  The power that went out in the 3rd quarter of the Michigan/Ohio State game and forced me to go run was back on by the time I got back home.

 

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
5.004.004.000.0013.00

Decided to run a Progression Run today, since I'm only scheduled for a 13 miler today, and it's normally long run day.  All this disregarding the fact that I *should* be in serious taper mode.  Oh well... Feeling the effects of the lunges yesterday in my legs...a bit of stiffness and "dead" feeling, but quickly got beyond that.

Started off running 5 miles at an easy pace (fast side of easy pace, 7:58/mi pace, 1 downhill, 4 uphill).  Stepped up the next 4 miles to MP pace (7:07/mi, 1 uphill, 1 flat, 2 downhill).  Finished the last 4 miles at Tempo pace (6:32/mi, 3 downhill, 1 uphill).  Last mile was especially tough, and felt closer to VO2Max effort.

Cold and rainy today, but I didn't overdress.  Despite the "rain gear", I was soaked by mile 4.  Had some GI distress towards the end of the run, but nothing that interfered with pace.  All in all, a good solid training run.  Now is the time for a serious taper this week.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From Benn on Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 18:43:55

SWEET RUN! Wish I had the fitness to be able to think of a 13 miler as "only" a 13 miler! Nice progression indeed! I envy the day when I can be able to run a workout like that!

From Dale on Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 12:25:23

Thanks. Funny, I wasn't even thinking about how that sounds, but I guess "Long Run Conditioning" has taken place. I used to fear anything over 10 miles, but after following Pete Pfitzinger's 55-70 mi program with it's 13-15 mi midweek medium-long runs, my body seemed to become accustomed to being out for 1.5-2 hrs at a stretch with little discomfort. It certainly wasn't always that way...

However, this morning I'm definitely feeling yesterday's run! I won't have any problem "tapering" today!

From Sasha Pachev on Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 12:32:04

I believe overtaper long term is worse than undertaper. If you undertaper, you just run a bit slower in the race, and you may actually recover faster because you were not fresh enough to push yourself over the limit. If you overtaper, you come to the race sluggish, and you've actually lost fitness. For most of my races, I do not bother to taper at all. I will back off the last two weeks before a critical marathon, and the last two days before any marathon or a critical half-marathon. Otherwise, I just train through.

From Dale on Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 12:40:05

Well, my last two marathon's I did the "standard" three week taper. Frankly, that felt like too much.

This time, I didn't back down much during the first two of three weeks....just reduction in long-run mileage mostly, but I increased the intensity. I'm planning on reducing mileage this week, and also cutting down on some of the core exercises I've been doing. I've got some definite soreness that I need to rid myself of, and some tiredness I feel like I'd best overcome. Guess I'll see how that works for me this time around.

Of course, a week is a long time, and I could certainly find myself getting restless and add some back in later this week. Thanks for your insights.

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
5.000.000.000.005.00

Feeling beat-up after yesterday's run.  Not too difficult to keep pace slow enough (8:55/mi) to keep HR in check today.  Form felt completely wretched...like my legs consisted of independent parts that weren't synchronized and all just kind of moved in the same general direction.  Obviously not all that bad, but definitely needed an easy day today.

Plus, the rain (again) didn't help the motivation levels.  Nor did the reports that snow may be headed our way tonight. 

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
5.000.000.000.005.00

Four easy miles at recovery pace (8:54/mi avg), followed by 8x100m Striders w/ 100m rest in
:16, :18, :17, :16, :17, :17, :16, :18. Form felt crappy again today...just felt tired and legs heavy. Striders not as fluid as the other day, but after the first couple, felt a little looser.

Core exercises following run.
 

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
5.002.000.000.007.00

Marathon Dress Rehearsal Day.  Of course, today was gorgeous....sunny with some clouds and a bit of ice in spots on the road, but very nice outside.  Temps ~ 42.  Sunday is scheduled to be cloudy and rainy.  Excellent.

3 mile warmup (7:45/mi), 2 mile Marathon Pace (1st uphill mile 7:16/mi, 2nd out&back mile 7:06/mi), 2 mile cooldown (7:29/mi).  Still don't feel quite "right", but felt better today stretching it out a bit.  Broke out the shoes with a mere 30 miles on them...worked fine but still has the "new shoe orthotic squeak, so my apologies in advance to everyone running near me on Sunday.   I don't even notice the noise anymore...

Standard plyometric drills and lunges afterwards, although I only did half the normal lunges to avoid sore hamstrings/quads.  Next 3 days short recovery runs only, followed by raceday Sunday.


Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From Andy on Wed, Nov 21, 2007 at 16:51:00

Good luck on Sunday. I always know that I am ready for a marathon when I don't feel quite right the week before.

From Dale on Wed, Nov 21, 2007 at 16:58:37

Thanks. I think I must have that same syndrome.....it's my third and I've felt pretty lousy the week prior to each. However, for this one I fell "less lousy", which I'm attributing to a less tapered taper. Hope that's a good thing....guess I'll find out.

Good luck in your Turkey Trot tomorrow.

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
5.000.000.000.005.00

5.0 mile recovery run at 8:41/mi pace.  Felt pretty loose and easy.  HR lower than normal at faster pace for this type run.  Some tightness in various left leg areas, so definitely laying off the core exercises and plyometric drills between now and Sunday.  Yesterday's run must've knocked the gunk off the cylinders though...

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
6.000.000.000.006.00

Stepped it up to an Easy Run today (from a Recovery Run).  5 miles at 8:05/mi pace average.  Felt like crap this morning w/ congestion and just overall blah feeling.  Too much sleep?

Run helped get some of the garbage in my lungs out.  Lingering smoke from burns up the street didn't help matters.  Ice on the roads made it tricky keeping footing in spots, so pace a bit off in some areas.

8x100m Striders w/ 100m rest in :19, :20, :19, :18, :19, :18, :19, :19. 

Striders a bit slower than normal.  A couple of segments over icy streets, but also took it a bit easier w/ marathon in 2 days.
 

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From Ian on Sat, Nov 24, 2007 at 06:51:44

All the best for Sunday Dale, you've got the worst bit nearly out of the way, the taper. How are you planning to pace the marathon? Hope the weather conditions stay favourable.

From David on Sat, Nov 24, 2007 at 12:17:35

Good luck Saturday Dale, maybe I'll find you on the course with Aaron. If not, I'll be looking forward to the blog recap.

From Dale on Sat, Nov 24, 2007 at 15:11:28

Thanks guys.

Ian....I think my plan will be to start slow the first couple of miles and let any crowds thin. I'll be happy there with anything 8:30/mi and faster. From there, I'm planning to keep the flats between 7:10-7:15, the downhills at a similar effort level (however fast that turns into), and the uphills I plan to take easy, at least those on the first 2/3 of the course. The hilly part is the back 1/3 from what I understand, and I don't need to be running out of gas on those, so I'm really going to try not to overextend myself early.

Of course, I *always* say that, so we shall see.

David...If all goes according to plan, Aaron and I should still be running strong when you plan to jump in and pace at 19, so I'll see you there!

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
4.000.000.000.004.00

Felt warmer than last few days....roads not iced up.
Left leg tightness in ITB.  Worked loose after first couple of miles.  Dog encounters at 1 and 3 mi.  Final easy run before Seattle Marathon.

8:00/mi pace. 

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Race: Seattle Marathon (26.2 Miles) 03:11:58, Place overall: 91, Place in age division: 28
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
0.0026.200.000.0026.20

Redemption! After a lousy Portland Marathon race where the wall made sure I didn't BQ, I got my second chance this morning in Seattle. Couldn't have asked for nicer weather....start temps were around 39, partly cloudy with some areas of sun, and no rain or snow. Aside from not getting out the door quite on time, sitting in traffic and searching for a place to park for more time than I'd like, the morning prelims went well. Had some qualms about how much clothing to wear and settled on a light tech longsleeve shirt and my CW-X tights, which turned out to be a perfect decision. Found my way relatively near the start of the pack. Looked around for Aaron who also ran Seattle today, but wasn't able to pick him out of the crowd from his blog photo. My plan was to run around a 7:10-7:15 pace on the flats, same effort on the downhills, and whatever didn't kill me on the uphills, which based on my previous day's scouting report were fairly numerous in the 2nd half. In my back pocket, I knew that a 7:27 average would carry the day.

At 8:15, we were off. Slight uphill start and I kept reminding myself to go easy early and not to burn myself out. First mile wasn't quite as easy as I'd intended, but I managed to keep it at around my goal pace effort. Next couple of miles I made sure I stayed off the accelerator and settled into a groove. Headed down onto the I-90 floating bridge for the out and back trip across to Mercer Island. A small headwind hit for the outbound trip and I wasn't able to tuck behind anyone, so I was fighting a small headwind from 4.5 to 6mi. Wasn't feeling so hot at this point, and the uphill turnaround didn't help, but I kept pace and headed back across the bridge for miles 7 and 8. I could definitely feel the concrete and knew my legs wouldn't feel quite as peppy after this run, but what the heck.

The next section was a 9 mile out and back stretch along Lake Washington down to Seward Park. Plenty of spectators here helped keep things light and easy, and I was able to keep my pace in my goal range pretty easy. Overall effort felt okay, but my left leg started feeling tight (ITB & Hamstring). Figured I'd stick with the plan and if it got worse deal with it then, but for now, it was managable. Ran for a stretch with a girl who was on her first marathon and was in need of a distracting chat. She revealed later that she was aiming for a 3:30, at which point I told her what our pace was, which got quite a reaction. Anyway, we chatted for a while and once we hit the park, she decided to slow a bit so I was running alone again.

Hit the 13.1 mark in around 1:35, which I felt was good. On pace for a 3:10, but I knew the main hills were yet to come. Put it on cruise control for the next several miles of the "back" portion until we crossed under the I-90 bridge and headed up the northern part of the route.

At mile 18, I was really starting to get nervous. I'd been consistently getting gatorade at every aid station, and had gotten the "sloshy stomach" feeling a couple of times, so I knew water intake was good, but I was fearing "The Wall" was nearing based on my Portland experience. At this point, my muscles were starting to hurt, but energy-wise I felt really good. Surprisingly good. The "rolling hills" portion began, and somewhere around here is where I caught up with Aaron. He'd stuck with his plan too, and was looking strong somewhere around mile 19 (wish I'd run that well *my* first marathon!!!). We ran together for a bit, but once the 20 mile mark hit, I decided to try to open it up a bit, since I felt so (relatively) well.

Shortly after 20, the steepest hill hit....not too long, but most everyone was either reduced to walking or a shuffle. I managed to keep moving at faster than a walk, but not by much. After cresting the really steep part, the rest didn't seem nearly as bad as I'd feared. My splits for the next couple of miles were over 8 minute miles, but most of this was uphill, and I'd planned for these to take some of my time away, so I wasn't too concerned. I was getting more and more surprised at my energy level, and decided to try to stick as close to the 7:10-7:15 range as I could. I still had some fear of the wall, but my energy level stayed up and I felt more and more like I might make it to the end running strong. I really started picking off other runners at this point, which also helped tremendously.

The last few miles were something of a blur. I had the energy to go, but the legs were beginning to scream at this point. At the 2 miles left point, I decided to stop fearing the wall and go. I felt like I was flying by others at this point, but also felt like I was really working. We had some downhills here that helped, but some were so steep they probably did more harm than good. Coming into the last 1/2 mile, which was uphill into the stadium at the square, I poured on what I had left. I went into all-out sprint mode with .2 left, which actually resembled my all-out sprint. I saw 3:11:49 on the clock in the distance and gave it everything I had left to get in under 3:12.....didn't find out my real time until I got home and checked online, but I knew I'd managed to nail a BQ time, on a hilly course, a mere 7 weeks after Portland. This was the first marathon I'd run start to finish (no forced walk breaks), no wall, and with some gas in the tank (even if the legs weren't working so hot towards the end). All in all, I can honestly say I'm completely satisfied with how things went today....couldn't have asked for a better race!

Splits:
7:27
6:21 (no marker, inaccurate)
7:50 (no marker, inaccurate)
7:24
7:01
7:31
6:56
7:29
7:11
7:09
7:31
7:17
7:12
7:19
7:16
7:23
7:14
7:13
7:17
8:04
8:13
7:14
7:30
7:23
7:08
7:12
1:13

1st half- 1:34:52

2nd half - 1:37:05
 

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From MichelleL on Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 18:05:41

Congratulations on the BQ and on meeting your goals! But the splits don't tell the tale, are you going to describe the race for us later?

From Dale on Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 18:37:36

Thanks. I was working on my report and submitted some partial info so I wouldn't lose it. Glad to know someone actually reads these things! :)

From James on Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 19:04:21

Congrats on your BQ and making your goal!

From Jim on Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 19:04:57

Congratulations on the race and getting a BQ. You have achieved something that I am pursuing so I know you must feel very satisfied. I look forward to seeing how you do in Boston.

From MichelleL on Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 19:06:34

Thanks for the full report, and congratulations again! It must have felt good to fly by so many and to not hit the wall.

From Dale on Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 19:15:33

Thanks all.

The MOST satisfying part was that I felt like I finally raced the full distance. Not hitting the wall and passing others at the end was definitely part of that, but the best feeling came from knowing I finally raced the whole distance. Can't even describe how good that feels!

From Benn on Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 20:47:58

Great run Dale! Way to go on getting your BQ. I'm a few steps behind you, but working towards a goal of finally "racing" the 26.2 distance. My first two marathons were fun, but are embarrassing to talk about with 4:26 and 4:31 times... I know I can run a solid race if I train right. Can't wait to see how your training goes and hopefully further improve at Boston! Great job!

From josse on Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 20:57:25

Great Job on the marathon, it's a great feeling to get a goal. It took me many tries to be a BQifer.

From Tom on Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 21:14:53

Awesome race Dale. You are right on track for that sub-3 in the spring.

From David on Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 23:52:06

Great race Dale, really nice.

From Ian on Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 07:06:53

Congratulations Dale on a well run race and your BQ. To finish so strongly is tremendous.

From Paul Petersen on Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 09:07:51

Great job, great pacing!

From jtshad on Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 09:51:30

Congratulations on a well run race and on the BQ time! Look out, Boston, here comes a FRB runner.

From Sean on Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 10:36:04

Nice job on one of the tougher marathons out there. One of these days I will run the Seattle. Hopefully it will be another year when Uli doesn't run.

From Sasha Pachev on Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 10:47:42

Congratulations! Good marathon experience.

From Lybi on Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 11:08:15

Great race! You deserve that BQ.

From Michael on Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 09:46:01

Way to get that BQ. Glad you had nice weather and not the Washington rain. Nice race report - sounds like you pushed yourself and got tough in the harder spots. Way to show pride with a finish sprint

From Dave Holt on Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 12:04:49

Good job on hitting that big goal of Boston. Now go out there and have some fun!

From Andy on Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 14:23:02

Congrats on smashing your goal. From your splits, it looks like you executed your race plan perfectly.

From Daniel on Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 15:01:34

Excellent race and congrats on the BQ.

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
0.000.000.000.000.00

Taking 2 days completely off following race, but a few thoughts I needed to save for posterity...

Legs ached in several places yesterday, but overall mobility was good.  I even had to trot out to the mailbox to get the mail in the rain and wind last evening (good that I could trot, bad that I had to because it told me exactly where every ache was...)  Today, even better.  Expecting little to no obvious residual soreness tomorrow.

Had the on-top-of-the-world feeling all day yesterday and thru this AM.  Suddenly, at around 5PM it hit me......I wonder if I should've pushed a bit harder since I had so much juice left in me to the end.  Why can't I just enjoy it???

This is supposed to mark my 2 "down" weeks, when I'd intended to just run for fun.  However, I found myself starting at my blank training calendar and finally couldn't stand it.  I had to put in a few entries, but kept them of the "Recovery" or "Easy" run nature and only enough for a few days.  I can already tell I won't be able to keep from plotting my next several months out though.

Decided to institute weekly Steady State (threshold) run during Base period (it shouldn't all be slow, right?).  I asked for coaching lessons from Greg McMillan for Xmas, and this dovetails into his philosophy, so hopefully my next few weeks will gracefully merge into a training plan we develop when I begin.  I also hope I can manage to take advice from a coach.  Since I never ran in HS/College (or really did any sports), I really don't have a clue what it's like to have a coach.  But I think I know enough to know I don't know everything.

Finally, I can't wait to tackle another marathon.  Only running 2 a year seems so....minimalistic.  After all, I did manage to bounce back 7 weeks after running a marathon PR to run another marathon PR, so isn't that a good thing I should continue?  Is there anyone out there that's fairly competitive that does this?  The recoveries certainly seem to be getting easier as I go.

Deciding which Spring marathon to run is hard.  On one hand, I'd like to return to my first (Yakima River Canyon Marathon), which is fairly small, so I can place much better.  On the other hand, its in early April, so I'm not sure if I'll be ready for a sub-3 by then.  Oh, and there's a *big* hill....

Okay, obviously need to get out and run tomorrow since that's about all I can think about today!

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From Ian on Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 07:31:55

Its a positive sign if your looking forward to running again today and already to your next marathon. After my first marathon this year I took it easy for 2 weeks, not pushing the pace and running by feeling. I then raced a hill 10k and I wasn't expecting anything from this. I lined up midpack and to my surprise during the race I felt wonderful and was constantly overtaking. I had a feeling like I was being pushed uphill and I felt strong throughout. I placed 8th and was secs from a pr on a much harder course. I think the marathon 2 weeks beforehand was responsible for this good performance. I'm reluctant to offer advice as I'm still learning myself but I think you could drop your 10k time now. Its worth a thought.

From Dale on Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 11:09:18

It's strange, but Portland sort of felt like a training run gone a bit awry, but with benefit since I hit the wall and forced myself to keep going to another 10K+. Maybe that was the training stimulus I needed to get the extra minutes in Seattle? Could be, since the one race I ran between marathons was a 10k where I PRed, even beyond the "calculator predictors".

I may just go find a "fun" race in mid-December if work doesn't interfere, just to see. I think you're probably right....given time to recover from Seattle, the training stiumlus from running that marathon is probably fairly significant and could likely get me a better time over a 10k distance.

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
5.000.000.000.005.00

First run back from marathon felt pretty good.  Some tightness in left achilles when running uphill, but otherwise no real stiffness/aches.  Legs felt dead for a couple of miles but then loosened up.  Ran by feel rather than time, but easy effort (8:07/mi pace).  Ready for more tomorrow.

Core exercises and stretching following run. 

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

First snow of the year; some slush on road but footing was fine. 

Nice and easy run at 7:56/mi average pace, followed by plyometric drills and lunges.

Some mild pain in left knee.  Been weaning myself off Cosamin DS last two days (1 vs 2/day).  Could this be it or just in my head?

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

Some stiffness in legs, worked out by first couple of miles.  Average pace was 8:00/mi.  Intermittent mild pain in left knee.  Form still feels off after race Sunday.  Didn't sleep well last night, and was fairly tired towards the end despite the pace.  Core exercises and stretching afterwards.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

Got a late start due to some home remodeling work that needed done in the AM.  So, started off a bit tired and hungry (one banana and a yogurt for breakfast/lunch).  Some left knee/quad pain on the uphill and steeper downhill stretches.  Snow started to stick in the 2nd half, making footing a bit tricky in spots.  Forgot to bring my sunglasses so kept getting snowflakes in the eyes, which made me drop my head, which worsened my form.  A bit slower pace than normal (8:07/mi avg).

Pylometric drills, lunges, and squats with stretching after run.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From Ian on Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 07:35:34

I think you're doing everything right at the moment. Just stay patient and kept the training easy until all the pains are gone. Both me and my wife think the picture from your marathon is excellent, how did you end up with no one else in the pic?

From Dale on Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 17:30:13

Thanks. Got really lucky with that picture. It was one of the ones the race photographers do. My wife said there was no one within about 30 seconds of me on either side at the finish line (and they had a separate finish for the 1/2 marathon walkers to the left of the cones in the picture), so I guess timing was everything!

I think I may need to make some of my easier days easier. I'd been using Easy and Recovery days over the past several months, but decided since this is base building time, to just try easy. Well, I think easy may be a bit much, since it's wearing me out! Guess those recovery jog days really are worth something.

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
13.000.000.000.0013.00

Crazy bad weather today.  Wind gusts up to 45 MPH with trees coming down across the road in spots.  Needless to say, I got some sprints in anytime I head the oh so familiar CRACK near the big trees.  Rain was sideways is places.  Middle 4 miles had plenty of leftover slush in the roadway making footing tricky (and wet).  Tired legs made this run difficult (not to mention the difficulty convincing myself to actually get out the door).  Almost talked myself into stopping at the 11mi mark (as I ran back past my house), but I kept at it for the full 13 miles.  Average pace was 8:09/mi, but it sure felt a lot harder today.  

Left knee in some considerable moderate pain in places on this run.  I'm considering going back on the full Cosequin dosage, but think I'm going to hold off for a few more days to make sure this isn't a fluke.  Tomorrow is definitely a recovery run day for me. 

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

Another crappy weather day. Fought gusting headwinds on much of the outbound leg (uphill, of course), then winds died on return so no boost there. Difficult to keep HR below 146 threshold. Some local flooding from all the rains and the snow runoff from increased temps today had me soaked above my ankles in about 5 minutes....felt like I was running cross country (not that I ever did run cross country) on the road. 2 dog encounters (same dog); 1st included a connection between my foot and it's jaw (just enough to let it know to back off); 2nd took about a minute for owner to finally retrieve pooch from our standoff, so overall recovery pace of 9:15/mi average is a bit off.

Time to retire my oldest pair of shoes today as the just hit 500 miles.

Much less left knee pain today.  Suspect pushed too hard on Easy run days this past week, so must continue to program in Recovery days.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
12.000.000.000.0012.00

Easy run at 7:56/mi average pace.  A beautiful day compared to the last few.  The winds I encountered were headwinds on the downhill and much milder than the gusting mess from the last few days.  Felt MUCH better after yesterday's Recovery day effort.  Some left knee pain (mild) 7-8 miles into the run, but much better compared to yesterday.  I'm taking this to mean that I needed to include more Recovery days in last week than I did, not that the Cosequin was having any real effect.
Last mile was 8x100m Striders w/ 100m rest in :17, :17, :19, :17, :18, :18, :18, :18. 
Run followed by plyometric drills, lunges, and squats.


Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

Good running weather. Recovery run today; very easy to keep HR low enough today, even on most of the uphill sections.

Need to try Spenco insoles in these (Trance 7) shoes....some minor pain under ball on left foot. No wearing cushioned orthotics in these since they're smaller than the Adrenaline 7s I have. Not going to get Trances again...too cramped.

No knee pain today, so recovery sessions have done me good. Ready to tackle a Steady State run tomorrow.

Core exercises and stretching afterwards. 

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
4.000.006.000.0010.00

Cooler and foggy today. Started with a 2 mile warmup at 8:02/mi average pace. Shed some clothing and started my 6 mile Steady State run. 3 miles uphill (progressively steeper), 3 miles downhill in 7:06, 7:18, 7:25, 6:24, 6:32, 6:40. Aiming for 6:55 avg pace, so effort was pretty even throughout. Felt pretty good and probably could've sustained for another mile or two, but that's for another week. Finished off with a 2 mile cooldown at 7:45/mi average pace (a bit fast as I unintentionally ran the first (slightly downhill) mile at near marathon pace before I backed off).

Plyometrics, lunges, squats, and stretching afterwards.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From jtshad on Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 18:07:57

Nice runs for the week so far. Great tempo workout today. Glad to hear the knee is feeling better.

From Dale on Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 18:27:28

Thanks. You and me both! I think I was just slacking on some of the strengthening exercises (you'd think I'd learn), plus it got pounded in the marathon, PLUS I was stringing too many Easy days together without true Recovery days.

From Ian on Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 04:32:43

Good workout Dale, I think out of all the various workouts in running, getting the recovery runs correct is one of the trickiest.

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

Easy recovery run at 8:35/mi avg pace, a bit fast for a recovery day.  No problems keeping HR down and speed was a bit faster than recovery zone.  Experiencing some minor pain in ball of left foot that I need to monitor so that it doesn't get worse.
Core exercises and stretching afterwards.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
17.000.000.000.0017.00

Left ball of foot pain this AM almost caused me to skip run, but it felt pretty good with shoes on, and didn't get any worse when I moved around. It's definitely being caused (or made worse) by Trance shoes I have, so I really need to stop wearing them. Decided to try run and bail if it felt worse.

4 miles on road, and decided to run the local logging trails. Figured my feet could use a break from the asphalt and I'd risk the odd painful foot-plant on the rocks. Started at 20% off MP and worked into 10% off MP halfway into run. Route had 2 very large hills, one early and one late, which definitely slowed pace, but took them much better than last time (few months ago). Overall pace in fast end of Easy range, with some miles at close to MP (downhills). Quads got pounded on extremely steep downhill section, and abductors sore towards end of run, but happy with the result.

2:16:39 @ 8:02/mi pace.


Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From Aaron on Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 16:53:58

Nice run. Listen to your feet given increase in mileage--chronic inflammation/stress fracture is no fun!

From Dale on Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 17:00:38

No kidding. I think I've got it narrowed down to a pair of shoes I know don't fit right, since I managed 17 miles on it today and it's fine.

Hope you're getting back in the swing of things after recovering from your stomach bug. What race is next for you?

From Benn on Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 17:54:50

Agree with Aaron. Great run! I give you props for running on the logging trails. I'm trying to find some trails locally, but they just don't exist. So I think for a couple of my longer runs this summer going to enter some long trail races just to run easy.

What's your take on steep downhills? On my long run route tomorrow theres a beast that has to drop about 300 feet in elevation in about .4 miles. I find even if I lean back theres no way down but to go a lot faster than I'd like. Is it better to just suck it up and go a little faster than I want down the hill and then reign in ? or will it do more damage to hold back going down?

From Dale on Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 18:03:52

Well, for me it depends. If the downhill is steep but manageable, I'll try to stay perpendicular to the slope and run fast down the hill. If it's too steep or otherwise not safe to take that route, I'll slow down fairly substantially and just take the quad pounding. Fortunately, there's only a couple of places like that among my normal trail run routes, and they definitely help condition you to absorb quad damage and keep running afterwards. But I much prefer letting gravity carry me faster downhill and keeping the quads intact, as long as it's possible to do that and stay safe.

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

Flew today to Chesapeake, VA.  Up at 2:45 am for flight (ugh!)  Ran Recovery Run on treadmill in hotel this evening in 1:05:29.  Footpod mileage way off actual (4.9 versus 7.0).  Run felt easy from breathing perspective (never left 4-4 breathing pattern), but HR up over time and legs felt sore and tired; worse towards end.  Some pain still in left ball of foot, worse from being cooped up in flight.  Now I remember why I dislike running on treadmills.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

Easy run in 56:12 (8:02/mi).  Run felt harder today than it should have.  Some definite soreness remaining from yesterday's travel and treadmill run.  Warm temps raised effort level.  Left foot didn't bug me during run, but I skipped plyometric drills to take it easy on it.  Squats and chair exercises, followed by stretching.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

Humid morning and warm (63).  7.0 mile Recovery Run in 1:01:14 (8:44/mi pace).  Not hard to keep pace in recovery zone nor HR below 146, but effort still felt harder than when running back home (in Chesapeake, VA this week).  Also ran 8x100m Striders w/ 100m rest that I missed yesterday in :17, :19, :16, :19, :17, :18, :16, :19.  Guess which way was slightly uphill?

Missed yesterday's 12 mile easy run.  Decided to give my foot a rest to see if the ball pain would recede some more, since it seemed to be sticking around (unlike before).  Strategy seems to have worked a little, but I'll really see later today after the run.  Hope to be ready for tomorrow's Steady State.

Core exercises and stretching following workout.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
4.000.007.000.0011.00

Started with 2 easy miles in 16:16 (8:08/mi avg pace), then started 7 mile Steady State run.  SS run time was 47:59 (6:51/mi avg pace) with splits of 7:00, 6:52, 6:54, 6:52, 6:48, 6:45, 6:44.  Aiming for 6:55/mi avg pace, but had some obvious problems towards the end with pace control (felt like I was struggling to keep up w/ 6:55, when in fact I was faster).  Pacing more difficult than normal since I'm away from home and the area is very flat (I'm used to the rolling hills).  Leg muscles felt a bit sore today, and by the end of the SS run, my left abductor was pretty sore.  Finished up with 2 easy miles in 15:44 (7:52/mi avg pace).

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From jtshad on Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 09:57:18

Nice run...how's the foot pain? I too have been having a little pit of foot pain, enough to notice but not enough to really hurt.

From Dale on Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 21:28:21

Thanks. It's still bugging me. I'm on a business trip, so I'm actually having to walk a lot more since I normally work out of my house, and I think that's contributing to it not healing quickly. I'm going to make sure it fades next week when I'm back home and take another day or two off if I need to.

Hope your pain doesn't get any worse...that's how mine was a couple of months ago, then it went away, then it came back recently and got worse.

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

Recovery run in 1:01:20 (8:45/mi pace) this morning on treadmill in hotel before heading to the airport for the trip back home.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
18.000.000.000.0018.00

Slept pretty well last night, but had some mild dehydration from long travel day.  Today is long run day.  Aimed to run first half at 20% off MP, and second half  at 10% off MP.  1st half in around 1:17, second half in around 1:11; pretty close on both halves (each a bit fast).  Overall time was 2:28:16 at 8:14/mi pace.  Muscles really started to complain around the 14 mile mark, but managed to keep pace throughout, so good run overall.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From Ian on Sun, Dec 16, 2007 at 05:31:57

Good long run Dale, I've been impressed that despite being away this last week you've kept getting your runs in however you could. Good commitment!

From David on Sun, Dec 16, 2007 at 18:30:27

Nice run, you've recovered really well from the marathon. I'm impressed at that distance and pace, you're making some real gains right now that'll pay off this spring. What's your next race around here?

From Dale on Sun, Dec 16, 2007 at 21:41:12

Thanks guys. The last week while away on business was especially tough to get the runs in, especially with the darn foot pain I've been having, but I managed to apply liberal amounts of guilt any time I thought to skip a run, other than the one day when I used resting the foot as an excuse.

I dunno what race I'll run in next. I thought about a 10K today before my trip, but think I'd better focus on some good base building and foot resting at least thru the holidays. Still trying to figure out which marathon I'm aiming at next, so I can start planning all the other tune-up races. Everything will really be dependant on the marathon date.

Oh yeah. And it also helps me to get out the door knowing there's other folks paying attention to when/how much I'm running! Thanks for the support....I need it!

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

Recovery run in 1:02:23 at 8:54/mi avg pace.  Felt a bit sore and tired but after a couple of miles got into the groove and felt pretty good.  Dog encounter at 3 miles paused the run briefly but quickly resumed.  Considering last evening was a late night at an Xmas party, pretty decent run.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
8.000.000.000.008.00

7 mile Easy run in 55:45 (7:57 pace) followed by 8x100m Striders w/ 100m rest in :17, :18, :17, :17, :20, :18, :17, :17.  Cold weather made for an early aggressive pace to warm up, but effort not too bad.  Striders felt smooth and form felt right, but late striders effort increased a bit.  Reverted to running in Trance 7s w/ stock insoles until they're retired, no foot pain during run.  Some afterwards, but nothing more than pre-run, and it feels like it's finally fading.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
13.000.000.000.0013.00

Late run today, extending after dark in 1:46:42 (8:12/mi avg pace).  Couldn't see watch in 2nd half, so entirely effort based at that point.  A bit slower than normal when dark, since didn't have a light and was a bit tentative on footing.
After, core exercises and stretching.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From Ian on Wed, Dec 19, 2007 at 03:48:05

Good med-long run for the conditions Dale. I have a headtorch for my evening runs but if I can I nearly aways prefer to run just on my night-sight. I do run on cycle paths though as they are clear of obstacles.

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

Recovery run in 1:02:10 (8:53/mi avg).  Nice and easy, nothing special.  HR monitor went a bit nuts halfway into the run, so I ignored it and kept the easy pace until it regained it's sensors.  Finished up with some leg strengthening exercises and stretching.

Annual physical this morning showed no matter how much exercise I do, my cholestrol will always be marginal.  Otherwise, all is good.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From Brrrzerk on Thu, Dec 20, 2007 at 15:35:37

Hey great job on qualifying for the Boston. I am just getting into the sport but have aspirations to do that one day as well. I have to make the 3hr 15min AND 59 sec mark to qualify as well. How many miles/week were you logging before you qualified? What pace were your practice runs? Just would like to guage where I am at with regards to one day meeting my goal. Currently I am trying to get in 6-9 miles per day.

P.S. By the way I had my physical earlier this week to and honestly I am more sore from them sticking me (with needles) then I am from training! All checked out well and unfortunately I have no excuses.

From Dale on Thu, Dec 20, 2007 at 21:21:10

Thanks. I was following the Pfitzinger/Douglas up to 70 MPW plan before Portland, where I just missed. Then I got a few 70+ mile weeks in after a week recovery and before Seattle, where I got my BQ.

For my pacing, I follow the McMillan Running Calculator pace guides (http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm)

Plug in your recent (best) race time and let it give you your training paces.

Good luck, keep at it, and it'll come to you...just takes consistent training IMHO.

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
4.000.008.000.0012.00

2 miles Easy in 16:21 (8:10/mi, avg HR 148) warmup.
8 miles Steady State (4 uphill, 4 downhill) in 55:08 (6:53/mi, avg HR 174) with splits: 7:09, 7:10, 7:16, 7:17, 6:33, 6:23, 6:39, 6:38.
2 miles Easy in 15:47 (7:53/mi, avg HR 157) cooldown.

Brief snowstorm from mile 1 to 2 in Steady State, followed by clouds, then sun, then clouds again. SS felt good and easier than last week (despite the hills and the extra mile, a good sign). One of those runs that inspires confidence that your fitness is improving!

Went to the Chiropractor today for the first time in ~ 15 years.  Came home with another appointment, some exercises, and some explanations as to why parts of my back are stiff and I seem to have continual issues with my left side. 

Brooks Adrenaline (Yellow) - 107 miles.

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From MichelleL on Thu, Dec 20, 2007 at 21:42:41

Nice workout. Is steady state the same concept as a tempo run? Anything different? I assume you are trying to keep the effort the same throughout.

From Dale on Thu, Dec 20, 2007 at 21:55:26

Thanks Michelle. Yes, I was trying to keep a constant effort, although I invariably go a bit too hard uphill, which always zaps me a bit on the downhill side, but I'll use my HR to judge overall effort in those runs and keep it within a beat or two for the whole run (excluding the 1st mile, which is inevitably low).

Anyway, my run was nothing compared to yours today! I wish I had some sub-6 minute miles in me. Maybe someday, but those hurt really bad.

Anyway, a SS is a slower Tempo, a concept I grabbed from Greg McMillan's website. He described the concept in more depth there (www.mcmillanrunning.com), look under his six step training system. SS runs are prescribed in his base-phase. I hope to learn more when I start with his online coaching, which should be in about a week or so, since that's my Xmas gift this year!

From Benn on Thu, Dec 20, 2007 at 22:40:18

My brother pointed out to me today that my left leg is smaller and less defined than my right. I've heard this is natural for many runners, but I don't want to have my right leg overcompensate and further exasperate the problem. Am I paranoid or is it a legit concern?

From Dale on Thu, Dec 20, 2007 at 22:44:46

Sounds like a legit concern to me. I think most folks have a naturally stronger side, but that doesn't mean it should necessarily stay that way. I think working to even things out is probably the smart play, but that's just my layman's opinion.

In my case, the chiro showed me on xrays and using an electro-muscular stimulation test that I have some imbalances in my muscles that affect my spine that need corrected, and in addition to the manipulations he does, prescribed some exercises at a 3-to-1 ratio to strengthen the weaker side. Way too early to call, but sounds reasonable to me and I'm going to give his program a try.

From Ian on Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 04:20:00

Dale - what a great Christmas present, that beats socks and pants. I've read the McMillan info and it does sound excellent, it'll be interesting to follow your training and your comments on the coaching. Also how the coaching takes into account the terrain that you are running in.

From Dale on Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 15:43:19

My wife and I have gotten used to getting each other what we really want, even if the surprise factor is out the window (although we each usually managed to get *something* unexpected). I'll be sure to post about the training program good, bad, and ugly once I get started. I submitted the questionaire that kick-starts the program yesterday, and with the holidays, expect it'll be late next week earliest before I get the starting schedule back. I'm really looking forward to it.

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

7 miles Recovery in 1:02:19 (8:54/mi, avg HR 137).

Run felt very easy and light. A bit stiff and sore from my Chiro visits initially, but worked itself out in about a mile and got that feeling that my fitness has suddenly improved just like yesterday. HR easy to maintain under the recovery threshold, and pace felt very very easy today, even on the uphills. Unfortunately, two more dog encounters, so today I got fed up with trying to work with my neighbor and finally called Animal Control. Of course, it's a recording and by the time they call back, I'll probably be feeling guilty for turning them in, but I have tried working with them for more than 6 months now and no luck.

Speaking of Chiro, my initial visit was yesterday. Xray's revealed that I can bend to the right fairly well, but bending to the left, my spine is all messed up. Some vertebrate aren't bending at all (between them I mean), and overall my spine is being pulled and twisted to the right. The doc gave me some exercises to perform in a 3-to-1 ratio to help correct the muscle imbalance that's causing this, in addition to an adjustment. I went back this AM for a second adjustment before my run, and boy was I stiff and sore and needed it!

I also had this test that measures the electro-muscle activity on either side of the spine, at points starting at your neck and descending to the base of the spine. This nifty test spit out a computer image that shows my muscle activity around most vertebrate as red (bad), indicating a bunch of imbalances (muscles working too hard to stay aligned), in addition to the spine being pulled to one side or another depending on which part of the back it's on. Now, I'm a bit of a skeptic about most of this stuff, but I've had good results from a chiro in my past, and this particular one appears to believe in not only adjustments but getting the patient to correct muscle issues as well, and so far so good. We shall see how this goes, I suppose.

Brooks Trance - 251 miles.

Night Sleep Time: 8.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 8.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
19.000.000.000.0019.00

19 miles Long Run in 2:35:41 (8:11/mi, avg HR 152).

When I woke up to the wind howling, I knew I was in for a tough run.  Needed to get it done relatively early so I could make an eye doctor appointment at lunchtime.  Swirling winds greeted me in the beginning 6 miles.  Those were joined by the rain-front that moved through, with the rain changing to sleet and hail at different points.  Had to make a quick stop at 8 mile point to call my insurance company (5 minutes) which I realized would be closed by the time I got done since they were on east coast time.  Got back to it and slogged through the wretched conditions.  Towards the end of the run, started feeling like I was running out of gas, likely because I hadn't eaten anything since the evening prior and I was probably approaching the wall.  Good mental test today, aside from the physical benefits.  Soaked thru and a bit chilled by the end.

Brooks Adrenaline (Blue) - 352 miles.


 

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00
Comments
From Ian on Sun, Dec 23, 2007 at 07:35:52

Good long run Dale under tough conditions. There is always that point in adverse conditions where you think it doesn't matter anymore, it just can't get any worse. Wouldn't have liked to stop mid-run though for so long. Interesting remark at the end of your run, I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to eat less before a long run (night before) to deplete the glycogen reserves sooner, forcing the body to become more efficient at fat burning.

From Dale on Sun, Dec 23, 2007 at 13:34:49

Yeah, stopping sucked...felt like cheating, but I wasn't awake enough to think the timeline thru before I started out. I'm used to noon-time runs, so anything that starts in the dark is early before my conscious mind gets started.

The glycogen question is an interesting one. Once again, some Greg McMillan stuff I've read suggests that as something to do in order to get the body used to operating on low glycogen stores. Plus, after having experienced complete glycogen deprivation in a race and being completely unprepared to handle it, I guess part of me hopes that experiencing tastes of it during training can help me deal with it better, and not turn into the quivering sack of unresponsive muscle with a non-compliant brain! So, I'm hoping that which doesn't kill me makes me stronger...

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

7 miles Recovery in 1:00:31 (8:38/mi, avg HR 138).

Pretty stiff from the Chiro adjustments on Friday. He's obviously hit on a problem area, because the tingly leg sensation I'd been getting on long runs in the past is now in full force and obviously emanating from my lower back. Once I got on the road today, though, things loosened up nicely and the run felt super-easy. Wound up running a bit faster than my recovery pace allows but just couldn't help myself, and since my HR was well below the 70% threshold, why not? Perhaps the feeling that I'd gotten a few days this week that my fitness had suddenly jumped was right on.

Merry Xmas to me. Got my personalized training schedule from Greg McMillan today, along with some light reading material. Before I blog about any sort of specifics, I've asked if there's anything he'd like me not to write about, and there's nothing worse than making your coach mad I suspect, so I'll withhold details until I get the okay, but I'm well and truly excited. It starts tomorrow with an Easy Run, which is much less exciting, but still has me pumped. I was somewhat bummed to see that there is no "Run This Workout Twice And It's Guaranteed To Halve Your Marathon Time" workout included, but I'll get over it :)

Brooks Trance - 258 miles.

Night Sleep Time: 8.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 8.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
9.000.000.000.009.00

8 miles Easy in 1:04:23 (8:03/mi, avg HR 158), followed by 8x100m Strides w/100m rest in 17.9, 19.7, 21.6, 21.1, 19.8, 19.6, 19.9, 19.8.

First six miles felt *very* easy, followed by last two just easy. My sciatic nerve in left leg is bugging me, as a result of my Chiro adjustments today and Friday, but run was still easy. First six miles felt extra easy today, while last 2 just easy. Took the strides slower, since the nerve discomfort increased a bit with faster running, so I didn't push too hard. I think the 8 miles was a bit long today, since my Garmin decided to space out for a few tenths of a mile halfway into the run, but even at what I guess is the true distance (8.3 mi), was still in the Easy run range.

Brooks Adrenaline (Yellow) - 116 miles.

Night Sleep Time: 7.50Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 7.50
Comments
From Ian on Tue, Dec 25, 2007 at 07:24:44

For a very easy run that is a good pace Dale. Nice run, your strides are faster than mine, even when you take them slower!

From Sasha Pachev on Fri, Dec 28, 2007 at 22:43:37

How close to all out was 17.9?

From Dale on Fri, Dec 28, 2007 at 22:50:46

This particular day, at the end of the acceleration I was at about 90-92% effort. I usually run them around 95%, which puts most in the 17-18 range. The 17.9 was also on a slight downhill stretch.

From Dale on Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 13:28:17

Sasha,

I'm sure you were asking for a reason. Care to share? I'm hanging on here waiting for the Sasha Wisdom!!!

From Sasha Pachev on Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 13:42:44

I wanted to get an idea of how fast you can run 100 all out. My theory is that one's marathon potential is limited by their best 100 meters the following way:

Take your 100 time in seconds, times 10. That is your best possible marathon you can achieve in minutes. E.g suppose your best 100 is 14.5. This predicts a 145 minute, or 2:25 marathon cap. It does not mean you will necessarily reach it even when training optimally for endurance - if you are a natural sprinter, you will cheat in the 100 meter sprint by using the fast-twitch fibers that cannot be trained for endurance. I am trying to gather as much data as possible in this regard to see if my theory is right.

The reason for 100 meter sprint - for a slow-twitch guy it is a very accurate measure of Quality X (see the discussion on the forum).

From Dale on Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 13:48:15

Is that 100m from a standstill, from a jogging start, or from an all-out sprint start?

From Sasha Pachev on Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 14:29:44

Try both jogging start and standstill. 200 meters works as well.

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
14.000.000.000.0014.00

14 miles Easy in 1:52:43 (8:03/mi, avg HR 162).

A sleep in late morning today cost me when the winds and snow started just prior to commencing my run, making it tough running in spots.  As added incentive for keeping pace was the turkey dinner waiting my return home, so neither wind nor snow...sciatic nerve gave me some problems early on, but they worked themselves out by about the halfway mark, and my leg felt much better by the end of the run over when I started. 

Brooks Adrenaline (Blue) - 366 miles.

Night Sleep Time: 9.50Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 9.50
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

7 miles Easy in 57:50 (8:15/mi, avg HR 151).

Ran by easy effort today, looking at the watch as few times as possible. Road covered with slush and icy in spots resulting from snow yesterday and sun out today.  Wound up a bit below my Easy run range, but effort felt easy and I needed the recovery in prep for tomorrow's Steady State. All the extra sleep has done me good, but it's about time to stop sleeping so late. Got back to my core exercises and stretching following run.

Brooks Trance - 265 miles.

Night Sleep Time: 8.50Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 8.50
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
4.000.009.000.0013.00

2 miles Easy in 16:47 (8:23/mi, avg HR 145) warmup.
9 miles Steady State (4 uphill, 1 flat, 4 downhill) in 1:02:07 (6:54/mi, avg HR 174) with splits: 7:02, 7:22, 7:25, 7:25, 6:52, 6:33, 6:17, 6:25, 6:42.
2 miles Easy in 16:12 (8:06/mi, avg HR 156) cooldown.

Blowing flurries and some winds to deal with today.  I've been having some mental trouble in that I find myself dreading Tempo/Steady State runs starting about a day prior.  Nonetheless, got to it today and upped the distance to 9 miles.  Harder than last week, in that uphill miles felt substantially harder (and were even run a bit slower) and the last 2 felt like I was about out of gas.  The 2 mile cooldown even felt somewhat difficult.  Need to take tomorrow really easy to try to recharge, and perhaps a nap today. 

Brooks Adrenaline (Yellow) - 129 miles.

Night Sleep Time: 8.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 8.00
Comments
From Ian on Fri, Dec 28, 2007 at 02:43:02

Good run Dale, dread is a little too strong but I always feel anxious the day before a hard workout. It doesn't matter to anyone else if I don't hit the target I have in my mind but it does matter to me and I don't want to fail. Are you on the coaching plan now?

From Dale on Fri, Dec 28, 2007 at 13:08:48

Well, maybe dread is overstating things, but it's the long threshold runs that really get my mind racing beforehand. Yesterday's run probably didn't help....it was much harder than just a week prior, and the extra mile didn't account for it. Today's run was a complete slog....I barely managed recovery pace, another indicator that yesterday took a lot out of me.

Yup, I've started my personal McMillan plan. So far so good.

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

7 miles Recovery in 1:02:51 (8:58/mi, avg HR 141).

Completely wiped by yesterday's Steady State, so I ran my scheduled Easy run as a Recovery run today.  Felt uncoordinated for the first 5 miles, last 2 finally felt a bit better but legs still very tired.  Will take it easy the rest of the day to prep for tomorrow's long run.

Brooks Trance - 272 miles.
 

Night Sleep Time: 7.50Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 7.50
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
20.000.000.000.0020.00

20 miles Easy in 2:43:59 (8:12/mi, avg HR 154).

Today's run begins yesterday. After run yesterday, legs, hip, feet, everything felt bad. Would get sharp pains in left foot randomly, making me think I'd cracked something. Bunion was bugging me and big toe was almost immobile. Left leg, from hip to foot would get shooting pains, making me think the sciatic nerve issue I've been dealing with was more, and for once I could replicate by applying pressure in certain positions. Stayed up late and last thoughts on going to bed were to make today a rest day and attempt the long run tomorrow instead.

Fast forward to this morning. Felt much better, but still some sciatic nerve twinges depending on how I applied pressure to the leg. After taking it easy in the morning, I decided to try the long run, but abort and only run 7 recovery if things didn't go well. Things went well.  Road was slick in spots, with about 1/3 of the route covered with slush, 1/3 snow, and 1/3 just wet.  Sciatic issue disappeared after 2 miles and got back into the normal groove. Some very minor left big toe discomfort off and on, but much better than yesterday with full joint mobility. Tried to keep speed constant throughout on a 2 10 mile loop course, running the 1st half in 1:44, 2nd half in 1:40.  Back on track!

Brooks Adrenaline (Blue) - 386 miles.

Night Sleep Time: 7.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 7.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

7 miles Easy in 56:16 (8:02/mi, avg HR 153).

Plenty of snow overnight made for a slippery run, but felt good and kept good pace, especially after long run yesterday.

Brooks Trance - 279 miles.

Night Sleep Time: 9.50Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 9.50
Comments
From Ian on Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 11:35:47

Good long run yesterday with negative splits in awful conditions. Just interested if you are running within a given pace range for each type of run, or HR if you don't mind me asking.

From Dale on Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 11:47:27

I've no mind at all!

Depends on the run. For recovery runs, I try to keep my HR at/below 146, which is around 70% using the Kevorian formula. That usually puts me in the McMillan Recovery jog pace zone, although towards the faster end.

For most other runs, I use the McMillan pace zone, but also use effort and HR as feedback to make sure they're not overly difficult. For example, I've found that his "Easy" run paces are on the hard side of Easy for me, so I'll make sure my HR doesn't get too far north of 160. If it does, I'm probably overly fatigued from previous training and need to dial it down a bit. For long runs, I tend to now ignore HR unless it goes north of 170, since my HR *always* seems to be on the higher side of what is reasonable. For example, my first marathon, my avg HR was 170 (189 Max), which is supposed to be too high to maintain. So anyway, strict HR training doesn't work well for me.

So, given the rambling nature of my answer, here's the summary. Pace (based on McMillan) is the start point, supplemented with HR and effort feedback determine my pacing. Oh, and I've gotten into the habit of negative splitting on runs for 2 reasons. First, my normal run route is out and back, uphill on the outbound, downhill on the return. More importantly, after fading badly in my first marathon and most of the long runs leading up to that one and the next, I decided that enough was enough and I needed to train myself to finish strong. This was around the same time I punted on strict HR training, which allowed me to finish strong (and out of the normal long run HR zones).

Did I manage to squeeze any answers in there?

From Ian on Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 12:28:03

Me thinks its answered rather well. The negative splitting is an excellent habit and one I would be good to practise, I usually have an uphill at the end though. I'm a little dubious about HR training. I've borrowed one to try and found on good uphills my heartrate was far higher than the HR set zones but I was comfortable with the pace. Downhill the opposite, I could be flatout and yet the HR monitor would be peeping again as I was not working hard enough. Recovery runs I can see the advantage though as it's easy to push too hard.

From Dale on Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 12:40:25

That happens to me as well. My HR is higher even though I'm taking it easier on the uphill stretches, and lower on the downs. I always run with the HR strap though, just to keep a record of the run average HR for comparison with runs of the same length over time. I guess I should also mention (although sounds like you do this too already) that by pace I mean my average run pace. On the outbound of easy runs, I'm 30-45 seconds slower, and opposite on the downhill, to arrive at an average pace in the McMillan zones. So I probably use effort more than pace, but they're all kinda mixed together for me.

From Sasha Pachev on Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 13:14:49

Standard HR zone is a very approximate measure of effort. I would go as far as to say, completely useless. HR is very individual in a lot of ways - individual qualities, fitness level, weather conditions, hydration level, etc. Add HRM errors on top of that.

HR should be used for observation only, but not for decision making. Even a novice runner should be taught from the start to run by feel vs. HR. If you can talk well enough to tell your life story and discuss current events for which you have a strong opinion and have lots to say, then the pace is easy enough to be a recovery/base building run. If it is relaxed and brisk, but you are down to monosyllables, it is marathon pace. If you are breathing pretty hard, but your legs are not getting heavier as you go, it is threshold. If after running a mile you are starting to hurt pretty bad, you are in the VO2 Max zone.

From Dale on Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 13:26:30

How would you classify the pace between "life story" and "monosyllables"? I'm talking about the effort zone where you can get full sentences out (not compound but simple), but you need a couple of breaths before the next one starts. Is that your "Easy"?

Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.000.000.000.007.00

7 miles Easy in 56:45 (8:06/mi, avg HR 152).

Bad road conditions today....plenty of ice and treacherousness to go around.  Still managed a decent pace and easy effort to finish off my runs for the year.  By my calculations, this puts me at 2656 miles for the year.  So I guess my first resolution for next year is to log 3000 miles.  I'm also thinking about running a 5K tomorrow morning to get the New Year off on the right foot.

Brooks Adrenaline (Blue) - 393 miles.

Night Sleep Time: 7.50Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 7.50
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
471.4832.2046.205.28555.16
Night Sleep Time: 81.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 81.00
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