The Qwer Old Fella's Marathon Method

Looking forward to your musings. Good to see you are back at it and the injury seems to have cleared up.

The unbalanced side of me agrees with your statement about runners. The balanced side is quite put out. Now when you say gargantuan, are you meaning a teaspoon full, a cup full, or a 36 cubic meter front loader? (http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=621416&x=7).

Runners generally are not well balanced individuals, that's for sure! Its hard to try to be really EXCELLENT at a sport like distance running and have that well-rounded balance. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts. Striving to achieve some balance, though, can really make the whole thing a lot more fun. Right now, we're planning some spring trips to the Tetons and Cascades... to get up and play in the mountains... and that non-running interest really makes the running part a lot more fun for me.

Great news on your running. Some serious progress. Looking forward to your thoughts during the week. Although difficult to achieve, having appropriate balance is imperative for distance runners. Without it, full potential cannot be reached.

hmmm...i disagree.

[:)]

Bret - Thanks.

Russ - Sorry to offend the balanced side of your sensiblities:)

Jake - I think everybody would agree that you're well balanced. How you manage all the hiking and skiing etc on top of your training and holding down a job, shows you've got the game sussed.

Matt - I'm know expert but I think most runners - myself included - are more than a tad cuckoo:)

allie - For the sake of balance, I agree with whatever it is that you are disagreeing with:)

I think you have to be a little cuckoo (maybe a lot cuckoo) to be really good at something, especially a sport like this.

well, my comment was kind of trollish since i disagreed with something you hadn't really explained yet. i am interested to hear what you have to say on the subject of balance -- i just disagreed with the comment that, in general, runners are not balanced people. this is a great topic and i'm all fired up for a friendly debate.

allie - I've decided to show the cuckoo(ness) rather write a diatribe. Although, once Bam has finished in Dr Looper's office, Dr Looper's report should give you something to get stuck into...

I feel that no one has perfect balance in life. I sure don't. But I definitely strive to have good balance. We all have very important priorities in life, such as social (family and friends), physical (running, etc.), mental, spiritual, recreation, good health, etc. This list is certainly not all-inclusive, and is not listed in any particular order. And an individual's list may or may not include all these items (or they may include more).

While you can't be perfectly balanced, you can sure keep trying. Of course, sacrifices have to be made at times. Becoming an excellent distance runner takes some significant sacrifices. But striving for good balance should still be the ideal. If a distance runner lets vital things consistently slide (for whatever reason), I strong believe that, sooner or later, his or her running will be negatively affected. Said another way, running performance suffers if we are too focused on running. Don't get me wrong, focus on becoming an excellent distance runner needs to be all-encompassing (in a good way), but not at the expense of other vital things.

I agree, Bam and Jake, that skilled distance runners are all a bit "cuckoo." I sure am :) But is this a fault? The relentless determination and no-mercy attitude on life's struggles, that many distance runners possess, is a great strength, in my opinion. Ever notice that dedicated, skilled distance runners are often very successful professionally, socially, and in most areas of life?

Great thoughts Matt. I agree with everything you said there.

Too often (and this is just my opinion) the idea of "balance" or "well rounded" is often equated w/ "average". I think its better to strive to be really awesome at stuff! And that's why I agree that the characteristics that make up good runners allow those people to kick butt in a lot of other aspects of their lives as well. I strive for balance, but I want to keep pushing my limits in different areas and never get too comfortable. That's my ideal balance. I don't know if that makes sense (it does to me).

Well spoken Jake! I completely agree, and you totally make sense. I think you and I are essentially saying the same thing.

I agree, having "good balance" and being "well-rounded" is definitely often considered just being average. This is certainly not what I think of when I hear these terms. When I say "balance" (and I know you feel the same way), I mean kicking some serious butt in all aspects of life! -- being balanced, but having high expectations. No one can be perfect in all areas, but the same qualities that make great distance runners lead to greatness in other aspects of life as well.

matt and jake: i agree, and the things you have said are exactly why i disagree that runners are not balanced individuals.

Interesting and insightful thoughts.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Dr Looper might decide to examine some of the opinions espoused.

That said, I wholeheartedly agree with the comments and I must add, what a joy to read such eloquence.

See Rob Murphy's review of Once a Runner on Amazon for some profound thoughts on balance vs. obsession.

Wow, fantastic Rob. You said it a lot more eloquently that I ever could.

Here's (part) of what he wrote:

"Once A Runner is the most useful and inspiring book on runnning out there. If you are a serious runner, you will find reassurance here. Your obsession will be validated. Let's face it, obsession scares us these days. We think of it as unbalanced. We all seek to be "well rounded". We need all the mental ammunition we can get sometimes to get through that 6 AM 23 miler in the rain. I want to thank John L. Parker for helping me to embrace my obsession and renew my commitment."

I am going to end up wasting so much time the next couple days reading Rob's reviews on Amazon... he has hundreds of them!

Scratch that "hundreds" of them comment... I was looking at the wrong thing. He has like a dozen of them. Much more manageable. I can get that finished during lunch.

Read your review Rob. I haven't read the book but it sounds great; it's on my extensive 'must read list'.

I liked your Everest analogy - it's helped me formulate some ideas.

I didn't know where I stood on the whole 'rounded/balance' thing before this week. I had conflicting ideas/views.

While I agree with most of what has been said, I now find myself firmly on the side of the runners are not balanced and that running isn't particularly healthy. That doesn't mean I won't carry on running:) It's too late for me.

I'm not sure if it's a sport I will encourage my kids to pursue. But my reasons for that will percolate through the week and beyond.

Great to hear all the comments. But I'm feeling a more Coveyesque thing that keeps everything at a distance rather than a sense of the personal and 'real' feelings that govern our motives as addicted fruitcakes. Fruitcakes striving for something that doesn't really exist...

You haven't read OAR?

Put it at the top of the list. This week. Get it done. What's the matter with you?!? :-)

I'm really enjoying this thread.

I believe that many people in modern Western society suffer from a tyranny of choice. We actually have too many options and this can lead, among the young especially, to a form of paralysis. We dabble in a lot of things without really making a commitment to anything. I believe that is why we see so many 30 year olds living in their parents basement.

What Jake said - OAR must be read. Not a literary masterpiece - but an absolute "requirement" for anyone serious about running. Besides BAM, it is written in a "fictional" setting of the town of my Alma Mater - what more could you ask for...

Balancing is what "successful" (translated good) runners with successful careers outside of the sport running do best....

Jake, I'm all over it!

Rob, I think if I carry on running with the same commitment I might end up in my parents' basement:-)

I can't make my mind up on the balance thing. I'm on Grace's multi-pad and it's a nightmare for typing. I might throw her out the window so I can get on the computer - I need to express my thoughts (now!) about why I'm a balanced runner:-)

I rest my case.

I know for a fact that no one here lives in their parents basement and we are all a bit unbalanced.

Such an interesting discussion. My idea of being balanced is being able to manage most of my priorities most of the time. No day is perfect. Having something that I enjoy emotionally and physically like running doesn't detract from some of those priorities, like being dependable, organized, thoughtful, faithful, honest, and less harried. If I choose to spend more free time on running, it means that I am not going to spend so much time learning the piano. That doesn't make running any less valuable, though. We are each given gifts and we should improve on them.

Obsession, however, is another discussion for another day.

Neasts, you've nailed it: running is healthy if it's part of a balanced lifestyle. If it's an obsession, which I suspect it is for many of us, then it might not be as healthy as we might argue. I suppose obsessive runners are like heavy drinkers - they'll find a way to justify their obsession.

Or its their job. You read all the time about runners living the monastic lifestyle (ie. look at Galen Rupp right now). But is that really that bad? His passion is to be the best in the world - in this case, he's doing what he has to do, and I think the obsession is justified.

For someone trying to break 16 minutes for 5K, that kind of obsession probably isn't worth it. Or maybe it is...

I think about something Rob told me on a run last summer. We were talking about how hard you should push high school kids, whether early success was good or bad, etc. In response to the idea that kids who run high mileage in high school end up flaming out in college, he said that a lot of kids who run 15 miles/week in high school don't amount to anything either. When you have a chance to do something special in your life, you seize the opportunity, because you never know if those opportunities are going to last, or whether they'll come around again.

That's how I look at my own running. I may get a bit of tunnel-vision at times... but in the grand scheme of things, I have my stuff together. I have a great life w/ Andrea and strong relationship w/ my family... those are always the most important things. I do a pretty good job at work, I have many interests outside of running, and I know that while I'm never going to make any noise on the world level, I have the opportunity to do something special (to me) in the next couple years. I'll take that. I don't care if its necessarily healthy... I'd never try to tell anyone I run 140 mpw for my holistic health... I do it to kick people's a$$e$ :-)

Ok, I'm back on the computer.

We're born, we live, we die. Then it depends what eternity has in store for us. For me, that means the nothingness. I hate the fact that's what death means to me. I wish I could believe in some happy-ever-after where we meet up with our families and exist together in eternal bliss. For me the evidence suggest something far bleaker...

Although sometimes I do think there has to be a Big Fella of some sort and it's just that we've screwed it all up; I suspect that's in my moments of weakness, when I'm feeling vulnerable - when I'm overtraining.

I agree that all the talent stuff and chasing the dreams etc is bang on the button. It's also fair game to go and run three hours a day if that's what you want. All the 'seven habits' stuff is great too, if that's what floats your boat. But I think we're missing the point and missing it in a big way.

So that leaves me sitting here typing this dross about what it means to live a rounded/balanced existence as a runner. And that's the point. I'm defining myself as a runner, not as a clerk, factory operative, president or whatever. If I were working as a teacher or a shop assistant I would probably still define myself as a runner (although I've done diddley-squat as a runner). Why?

When I wake in the morning, the first thing I touch is my butt to see if my injury is ok. I then do an isometric contraction to test it. I dorsiflex and plantar flex my foot to check my achilles. I think what running I have to do today, when I'll do it and where I'll do it. I slip out of the bed and check the weather - for my runs.

Do I think more about running during the course of a day than anything/anybody else? I'll be honest, yes I do. It's wrong. It's unhealthy. I'm 48 - what's the point?

Yeah, I want to win. I want to break the world record (yawn) and all that stuff. But what's the point? Who gives a stuff what I do as a runner. How many people know who the mens world record holder is for the 1500m and what his time was? Call yourself a runner!

Why do I/we write our training up on here? Are we seeking approval from like minded people, kindred spirits who get us? Do we need affirmation that what we're doing is healthy and right. Do we need to be told 6+ times a day that our 3 mile jog was 'massive' and that we're gonna cause havoc on the roads. Yes we do. And here's why: there's a huge heap of emptiness in our lives and the fact that there are others out there like us, assuages us, fills the void in our meaningless existence with platitudes.

Who gives a flying you-know-what? We do. I do. Because we're fruitcakes. Like it or lump it kids - you're nuts:)

I'm on the couch tomorrow with DR LOOPER, so I better go get some rest. Love you all and you're all great:)

p.s. What's the first thing you think about when you wake in the morning?

Now, if that doesn't get you going, nothing will...

El G, 3:26.000000000000

He also spun the full mile in 3:43.13

Everyone knows those :-)

Hahaha. Just read the Goucher interview. Brilliant.

But what's the first thing you think about in the morning? You don't have to answer that:)

why is having a passion for something unhealthy? i understand that being overly obsessive about something isn't always a good thing, and i understand the importance of balance. however -- if running is the first thing you (and i) think about in the morning, as well as at several points during the day, is that really a bad thing?

i really have no idea what the point of life is, but if you can find something you love, that you are good at, and that you can strive to be better at, it gives you purpose. it gives you motivation. it gives you confidence. it gives you direction. it gives you goals and plans and structure. and on and on and on. i think finding that thing (or things) and putting your time, energy, and heart into it is very healthy and natural and something that humans need in their lives. if it's not running, then it's something else.

in regards to why we spend time writing things on this blog -- i think we all have our reasons. personally, i'm here to spy and troll and convince everyone to switch to a diet of dirt and rocks. fax me $10 and i'll tell you more.

Allie, your existence on this blog is justified by my enjoyment of your bon mots over the years. And by your general running excellence. :-)

Jake, I have learned so much from insights you and Andrea have shared. If that's bordering on obsession, I'll take it.

I just want to add one more thing, about why this blog in particular is important...

Back in 9th or 10th grade, I remember my Dad telling me something along the times of "you're judged based on who you associate yourself with." I try to make it a point in my life to surround myself with great people, people who are passionate, people who "attack life", etc.

What Allie wrote above makes me proud... to be able to say someone who has that attitude is my friend. I've made so many great (real life) friends through this little piece of the internet... guys and girls who have true character, people that I'd go to battle with in a heartbeat.

OK, time to actually go for a run!

(this is a great discussion, by the way, and part of the reason this blog is so great)

Excellent discussion! A lot of fun. Great points made by all.

One of my favorite quotes is, "Any virtue, taken to an extreme, becomes a vice." I really believe that. Even something good and wholesome can actually turn into a vice, if taken too far.

I think about running a lot. Trust me... a whole lot! But I also think about my family a lot. And I also think about my job a lot. And spirituality. And recreation. And on and on.

True it is that the more time spent training, the less time you have for other interests. If you are passionate about running, and you become a great runner, you won't have the time to devote the same effort to other interests. Hence the sacrifice. We can dabble in all kinds of things, as Rob Murphy mentioned, and be mediocre at a lot of things. Or, we can choose a couple things at which to excel.

Each of us truly is born with unique gifts and talents. We need to learn what they are, and then maximize our potential. Doing so can give healthy direction to all aspects of our lives.

Everyone has a reason that motivates them to run. Mine is that I want to destroy other runners in races. Period. I run for no other reason. All other benefits of running are by-products and are secondary for me. Being fit is a nice benefit, but it's not why I run. I've lost 40 pounds in the past 2 years because of running, but I wasn't trying to lose weight. I was just running. Don't get me wrong -- I much prefer the way I feel, being 40 pounds lighter, but that's not why I run.

But, I'll tell ya, being a runner enlightens life in general. All aspects of life are enhanced, if running is approached in the appropriate way.

I define myself as a runner. And, of course, as a husband and father. I am an orthopedic surgeon, but I define myself as a runner. Some people think it's amazing that I'm a surgeon. While I'm thankful for these sentiments, I much prefer to be identified as a runner. Throughout my life, my truest and most choice friends are my running friends. True friendships made through running really do last forever.

Bam, I believe there are good things in store for us after this life -- with our families. And I feel there is strong evidence for this perspective also. I know this isn't the purpose of this discussion, and it's not my style to force my beliefs on anyone. But, Bam, if you ever want to have a friendly discussion regarding that topic, I'm in (although maybe it needs to be done privately so we don't offend).

Wow!

When I went to bed last night I was like a kid on Christmas Eve. This morning I was straight down the stairs to the computer - no time to think about aches and pains and runs - to see what the elves from Utah had left me:)

All my expectations were exceeded. Some surprises. But I'm overjoyed to know that my addiction to running is healthy.

I'm also delighted that I feel that I've reached a point where I can move on in the whole 'coaching' thing. If it's healthy to focus on a sport and put everything into it, the next stage has to be what's the best way to

achieve Peak Sporting Performance - how do we get the best out of ourselves?

If we're going to invest so much of ourselves into the seemingly simple act of running, surely we should find the 'best' way to get the most out of ourselves - that is, of course, if the motive is to be the best you can be.

Jake - your contribution has been eloquent and insightful - it's great to hear the opinions of an athlete who is on the brink of something special.

Mr Murphy's little gems are keepers and linger in the mind well after the event. I'm still thinking about what Jake said that Mr Murphy told him about school kids and how hard they should be pushed etc. Brilliant insight.

Bret's comment on success in the work/life/sport balance was also thought provoking.

Neasts's contribution on balance and prioritising time etc nailed it for me. I think where Neasts was coming from is where most of us would like to be, well I would, anyway.

Then there was the Terminator Poulsen:) say this in an Arnie voice: "I want to destroy other runners in Races. Period."

Imagine you're racing Terminator Poulsen and there's 100m to go: do you bury him or let him destroy you. My thoughts are, if you pull away from him you might not make it to the finish - he doesn't carry gels (look at the recent half marathon) he carries scalpels:)

Seriously though, the Terminator's contributions were all very interesting and I'll need more time to digest them all.

On the spiritual front, that's a big one, especially for me and for many reasons that I most certainly will not divulge here:) Needless to say, thanks for the offer Matt and someday I might just take you up on it:)

allie - you are a diamond and James is one lucky geezer:) Wow! that was from the heart. I loved it and this morning, after I'd done the weekly shop with the old lady, I was telling her about what you'd written. She's not easily impressed. She runs and swims and eats healthy etc, in fact, she ticks Neasts's boxes of balanced. She thinks I'm nuts for running twice a day and taking running so seriously. But after I regurgitated what you'd written, she said, yeah, I can see that. The difference is she said, "allie probably doesn't let her addiction/hobby/obsession impinge upon her family life." Maybe that's where I was trying to get to all along. How do you focus on your running and not let it impinge on family life (kids and all that stuff).

What a cracking debate. And of course, I love this place - I was only being provocative to ignite the passion. It keeps me going on cold dark Irish mornings. It motivates me more than you could ever know:)

I'm just glad that I don't have to race the Terminator - I feel sorry for you chaps. Jakers!

p.s. I didn't forget Russ -the mister came to fix our drains and I had to go:) The drains are now balanced and healthy:)

As usual, Russ's humour balanced things and set the tone from the outset. Thank you Russ. Now, I wonder, who is the best shot, Russ or the Terminator? Two hunters meet in a wood...:)

I think it's important to note that obsession by definition is ultimately harmful behavior. Jake K. mentioned an important word in his blog post today about the young man who was signed to run at SUU: dedication. Obsession does not equal dedication. Dedication to any positive and/or healthful ideal can be almost all-consuming without becoming obsessive. Soon, dedication simply becomes part of the balance.

Bam, you asked, "How do you focus on your running and not let it impinge on family life (kids and all that stuff)?" I think I'm somewhat qualified to answer that having baked half a dozen buns, and I've learned through trial and error that, for my family, making running work is to not let my husband and children feel that I have chosen running over them and their needs and interests. The small details will work themselves out.

Neasts - great stuff. I love, 'Soon, dedication simply becomes part of balance.' And the advice about making family members feel that I haven't chosen running over them is simple and priceless. Thanks!

You deserve praise as well, Bam. You initiated this debate, and we are all better and inspired for it. Well done. And your mastery in writing amazes me.

I can't believe I missed this entire conversation. I will blame one of my other obsessions called work. Allie's comment about finding "something you love, that you are good at, and that you can strive to be better at..." really resonated with me because I think it's important for everyone to have an interest(s) to pursue that they enjoy and can work towards. Just as we may like running there are more people out there who find great joy in art, music, writing, religion, all other sports, their careers or raising a family. None of these pursuits, in my opinion, is "better" than another and I think the definition of success is up to the individual. As Thoreau would say, "If the day and the night are such that you greet them with joy, and life emits a fragrance like flowers and sweet-scented herbs, is more elastic, more starry, more immortal — that is your success.”

Fritz - great point about others having interests that they pursue. I suppose most people have something and those that don't are missing out. I think the Thoreau quote's the clincher - perfect!