The sun is up, the air is fresh, the stone is old

November 07, 2024

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Location:

Logan,UT,USA

Member Since:

Dec 15, 2009

Gender:

Male

Goal Type:

Other

Running Accomplishments:

PRs after age 40:

 

5k     15:15  Running of the Leopards.

8k      22:21  Alta Death Dash

10k   33:02    Des News

Half Marathon      1:10  Timp Half

Marathon        2:32    Ogden

First solo R2R2R Bass Trails Grand Canyon 

First R2R2R Grand Canyon Toroweap Overlook

 

Short-Term Running Goals:

Not be fat all year

Long-Term Running Goals:

Smell the dirt, feel the mountain, taste the wind.

Personal:

 

"Our legs are tight, our feet are flying, and we are gliding over the roll of the land. The sun is up, the air is fresh, the stone is old, and we are free and at peace. The clock has stopped because another time has taken over." C. Bowden

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Easy relaxed day flying three coast to coast legs.  Not much time to get in a run and not worrying about it.  Sweet to have internet access all day while moving 600 miles an hor across the country.  I wish all of our planes had this.  It literally does not feel like a job at all.

I've made it halfway through a training book on Lydiard's methods and it's neat to see what has worked in my training and what I have done wrong.  The most interesting are the parts that have taken me a while to come up with on my own and then read them already put down years ago by this coach.

At the start of this year several family members begged me to run the TOU marathon with them next week and paid the sign up fees.  They were joined by 4 other friends and they all started "training".  This week the last of them called to say they were dropping out.  Out of 7 people, not one would train through to run a marathon.  One friend told me that she just couldn't believe the effort it took.  She wasn't going to run the thing simply because of the work to get ready for it.  My own son, after getting up to 8 mile runs, just flat out stopped two months ago.  It was like he just couldn't understand that you had to stay with something for so long and he really wanted this.  (His girlfriend is running it).  The effort in life to do something physical was just too much.  It's curious to me because I think it reflects a huge general trend in society right now.  We should be given things, or recognition; we just deserve them.  For the first time in 17 years flying that I can remember, I will have teenagers come up to the cockpit for a tour and ask how to get a job like this, and when I explain that it's no big deal, you just have to stay in school, get a college degree and spend two years getting your ratings, the excitement just fades.  They literally lose interest in a few minutes.  And it's so damn easy to do.  Almost anything in life worth getting at all takes weeks, months and years of work.  Check out the marathon scene.  Marathoning and half marathoning are more popular than ever, some sell out in a few days.  So you'd think we are faster and more dedicated to what it takes to run, but the average time to finish one is steadily increasing.  Maybe it's just my experience, but none of these friends and family that have dropped out had any injuries, they just didn't want to train.  They just wanted to go run one.  My son asked yesterday how to get ready race morning, he was still planning on running the marathon in four days.  I told him no way he was going to run it unless he trained for it.  It was basically trying to show him that you don't do something that you won't work for.  It was an hour long discussion, but I think he understands a little more about it. 

This spring I had a hard time explaining to my neighbor why my daughter would not be on the soccer team this year.  They just changed to a "no scoring" status since it's better for the kids.  I didn't do a very good job of explaining why sports and competition are so critical to education and to life so it's been on my mind a few times this summer.   

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00Weight: 0.00Calories: 0.00
Comments
From allie on Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 17:24:57 from 24.10.191.18

very interesting post. sasha just posted some similar thoughts on instant gratification and aversion to anything "uncomfortable". it's definitely prevalent in our society today. i had a friend text me the other day asking if he thought it was a good idea to run the marathon this weekend. he said it was on his bucket list and he thought it would be fun to try it. he asked me if i thought he would survive. i told him no, he shouldn't run it because he would probably hurt himself. i told him that marathons are not something you should just jump into to prove to yourself or others that you can do it. it takes a lot of planning and hard work. he was not expecting this response from me, and he actually said he felt a little offended that i didn't think he had what it takes to pull it off (i DO think he could do it with proper training, and i told him this but he was not interested in the "proper training" part). anyway, it's interesting. and the "no scoring" thing in soccer -- wow.

From Jake K on Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 17:32:30 from 155.100.226.53

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Steve. I agree w/ you on all of that. I'm all for participation for everyone and keeping kids active, but man... the "everyone wins first place" mentality just kills me. Hard work and success should be rewarded... not just showing up. We've gotten "soft" as a society.

When I was teaching an undergrad health class a few years ago I took my students out to play dodgeball a few times. I got in trouble for doing it, but I figured it was a good way to test their character and show them that if you want to just stand around and do nothing, you're gonna get whacked in the head!

From JG on Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 17:42:52 from 71.59.27.33

An interesting commentary with some very good points ... But please don't tell me you took your daughter out of soccer because they went to a 'no scoring' system. While I agree do not agree with a 'no scoring' system, there are certain activities and ages where the benefits of participation far outweigh competition, there needs to be a balance between the two.

On the contrary, I completely agree with the stance you took with your son, kids need to learn to prepare if they want to be given opportunities and succeed in life! Of course, I ran 6 marathon before I trained for one, and it was not to prove anything to anyone other than myself and as a tribute to those who battle Leukemia everyday! Were my times fast? No. Did I enjoy participating without competing? Absolutely.

From ACorn on Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 18:16:51 from 68.66.168.22

At least they paid the sign up fees!

From Steve on Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 18:25:47 from 70.14.126.11

Yep, I took her out of that team and signed her up in a league that understood what a challenge is. If I wanted her "participating" I'd hand her the Nintendo remote and a bag of chips. Every day of life we get up and participate. We are also forced to participate in many other activities.

Sports give us a chance to experience more than that. She loves being with friends and working together as a team to make herself and them as a whole better. She loves getting better at something that she actually didn't like at first. I've seen her laughing and joking with teammates from other teams that they beat or lost to, who were in her class at school. It's no different than life. I can't fly people across the country without the element of growth and competition in everything about it. I trained competing with others to sharpen my skills. I still do. Every six months in simulators and am graded and scored over every minute and decision I make. It's a part of developing responsibility and respect for the hard work others put in to get where they are. You wouldn't want some guy flying your family on a dark night who did it any other way, any more than having a doctor work on your heart who was the bottom of his class or having a teacher who was just "filling the hours" each day with his students.

I have run a marathon in five hours with my mom and it was one of the most rewarding experiences that I have ever had. But I still watched the replay of the winners of that race and marveled at how fast they ran and admired the work they put into that day in the years before. No way I would run a non timed marathon.

From Steve on Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 18:29:29 from 70.14.126.11

I guess I'm saying that I agree with you on participation, you have some excellent points, but sport is so much more..

From JG on Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 18:49:39 from 71.59.27.33

I agree Steve ... and competitive sports certainly were a huge part of my upbringing and who I am today. My only point was everything does not have to be competitive ... my 4+hour marathons will always have as much meaning to me as running one in 3 hours next week. Due to schedule and other interests, I had no time or desire to train for marathons ... but they were still very meaningful experiences that I am glad I did. Completing them was competing ... but there were other things in my life were higher priorities than training to be the best. As you said ... one of the most rewarding experiences you ever had, was running a 5 hour marathon with your mom ... good luck on Saturday!

From Steve on Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 20:52:58 from 209.235.31.148

I rewrote some of that post to try and explain a little bit better what I meant. It makes sense what you write, and if it seems like I am going off, it's from the frustration of people not doing things because they are "uncomfortable" like Allie said, or half assing it like my dad said I always did. From your blog it looks like you probably had a lot more competitive sports than I ever did growing up, probably a lot more qualified to make this point than I am. I also agree that not everything has to be competitive, sometimes that's a real problem. But sports give us the chance to do more than participate for once and I love it for that.

Colin Livingstone wrote that running brings you into contact with a world of uncommon people..competitors, and that for the common man to understand them was like a hen trying to comprehend the soaring of an eagle. It's something that I've thought about each time I watch the elite marathoners and especially Ryan Hall this last year who is made fun of by everybody. There are some bloggers on this site who I consider on that same level. They are just flat out neat to watch racing and read what it takes as far as training. It's inspiring.

I'm going to get my butt kicked Saturday, but thanks! BTW, I've always wanted to run that Peachtree 10k. I'll bet that was an experience.

From JG on Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 21:48:14 from 71.59.27.33

Thanks for the kind words Steve, I did not mean to come across as attacking your post, I was only pointing out another perspective ... but in general, I think we completely agree that competitive sports teach us a healthy approach towards all the activities that we carry out in everyday life.

Yes, this blog is great in that there are lots of amazing people on here that are inspirational and achieve unbelievable things through there hard work and dedication ... whether they are running 5:00 miles or 10:00 miles.

Peachtree is fun, with lots of amazing participants, they come from all over country & world! Over $100,000 prize money and serves as the US 10k National Championship ... Ryan Hall came in 17th

From Rob Murphy on Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 00:22:16 from 98.202.141.17

Man, there is just too much here for me to comment on. As a teacher/coach I see this stuff every single day. We will have to hash this out sometime over a couple of cold soda pops.

Really good post.

From Steve on Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 16:54:52 from 173.123.56.169

Sounds good to me Rob, its still a subject I'm putting my mind around.

JG, I'm there with you. But I'd still have to say I'm more interested in the commitment at this sport it takes to run at 5 than a 10 pace, rather than the fun of participating at both. It's just that man's ability to strive and make dreams reality fascinates me.

Yep, Ryan had a bad day there. It was one of his most dissapointing runs, according to his blog. He ran faster for the first 10k of Boston than that race. I think he is just beginning to mature as a distance runner.

From JG on Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 17:19:24 from 71.59.27.33

Steve, I agree on the commitment, and you are admired for and respected for cranking out 5 min miles. For me that number is between 6 & 7. For some people it is an absolutely amazing accomplishment that requires tons of hard work and training to complete a marathon at a 10 min pace ... my reference to that pace was for them ... as that accomplishment is equally admired and respected! We can't all be gifted with blazing fast speed. :)

It is not so much a difference of opinion, as to the perspective one looks at it, and how it applies to different individuals.

From Steve on Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 21:18:09 from 209.235.31.148

Been an interesting thread, glad I had some time this week to write a bit, usually never have enough time! I don't crank out 5s, that would be sweet. I think I'm one of those "participants" which is probably why those who are really running fascinate me so much.

I'm not a guy who believes in gifted. Not even in talented. I believe in dreaming and working. There are probably kids next door who could run at world class level. Lots of runners and coaches would argue flat out about that and I understand it. In fact, statistics support them. You see, I think I know what it would take to be a great runner, at least for myself. I'm just too lazy to do it.

A lot of runners talk about gifted when they discuss some elites. I've had the chance to spend overnights with the Kenyan, Russian and Ethiopian teams at national events. I've sat in the vans after races talking shop with them and it's inspiring. It's about work, and maybe something else. I feel like that hen I wrote you about. The way these competitors seize life is something else. To borrow a phrase from Jack N, "it makes you want to be a better man".

In the last year I have had several guys ask what it takes to drop their marathon under 3 hours and the answer is usually simple. Make running part of your life. That means getting up to 70 miles a week, maybe more. It means sacrificing a lot of other things. I also agree, as has been recently said, that most every average male runner has the capability to get a marathon in the 2:40 range. If he puts what it takes into it.

Watch the top runners on this blog by following the mileage board, especially those pretty close to Olympic qualifying time or even OQT already. It's humbling, and more than a matter of perspective.

If you are bored one night and want some entertainment, google the phrase, "how do I qualify for the Olympic Trials" on Let'sRun.com or another forum with some serious racers. There are literally dozens of guys that sign in and ask how to qualify after running a marathon or two. These guys just tear them apart and it's not because they are mean, it's because normal people underestimate so much how much work an elite runner does. I'm content with my general slackness..

From JG on Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 00:17:10 from 208.54.64.137

I'll have to agree to disagree, it is all about perspective! I understand and appreciate many different perspectives, that is what makes us well rounded individuals.

From Sasha Pachev on Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 18:45:13 from 192.168.1.1

I would argue that fear of competition is a mental weakness, in my ideal world I would treat it as pathology. Because we are so used and even addicted to being hateful, jealous, unkind, etc, we are not able to compete without those feelings. But it is possible.

In the Salt Lake Marathon 2004 the top two finishers ran together and shared water with each other until the last three miles. Then one of them surged ahead and won a much larger chunk of prize money - if I remember right it was $25 K vs $10K, and to East Africans this is literally a fortune. No bitter feelings were present and the one that finished second commented that his friend was simply stronger that day.

I have been in similar situations myself a number of times, and ended up getting either end of the stick from time to time with a cash prize involved. When it was short, I felt no bitterness toward my competitor. When it was long, I did not perceive any coming from him either.

Healthy competition is key to progress. We must not fear it at all, and particularly not to the point that we take it out of things where it naturally belongs. Fear of competition is really a subtle manifestation of the lack of love.

From Steve on Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 21:58:26 from 76.27.108.183

By far, one of the neatest write ups on competition that I have read. I've been thinking about what you wrote here all day. A few weeks ago there were some good threads on FRB about competition, in the personal sense, not in the team sense like this thread. Your post fits in really well with what we were trying to put a finger on. Thanks for sharing that.

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