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Location:

St. Petersburg,FL,

Member Since:

Dec 30, 2014

Gender:

Male

Goal Type:

Other

Running Accomplishments:

  • 5k - 3/8/14 - Armadillo Run - 15:58
  • 10k - 2/7/15 - BDR, Safety Harbor - 33:17
  • 15k - 2/21/15 - Gasparilla - 51:05
  • 1/2 - 12/14/14 - Holiday Halfathon - 1:13:31
  • Marathon - 10/04/15 - Twin Cities - 2:38:46

Short-Term Running Goals:

2016 Races

Clearwater Halfathon - Jan 11
Donna Hicken Marathon - Feb 14
Gasparilla 15k - Feb 20
Florida Beach Halfathon - Mar 6
??? Chicago Marathon ???

Long-Term Running Goals:

Find balance. Run with my girls. Break 15 in the 5k.

Personal:

Born in 1973 in Southern California.

Ran in high school for Arcadia. They have a famous cross-country team now. In my day, we were famous for dodging our coach during runs.

Over the next 15 years I ran very little, but life was awesome. I lived mostly in Northern California, where I met my wife. We moved back to her native state of Florida in 2005, where I gradually started running more seriously.

 

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Miles:This week: 0.00 Month: 0.00 Year: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
24.000.000.000.0024.00

AM: 24 miles, 6:50 average. Good run overall today, although Richie and I got into it about halfway through, and that cast a shadow.

Richie and Mike G. sometimes meet our Sunday group about 10 miles in. They're both strong runners, so their presence always helps. I told Richie this morning that I was training seriously for TCM, and he renewed his recommendation that I begin receiving online coaching from a friend of his, who runs a prominent American development program based on Canova workouts.

I like Richie very, very much, probably more than he likes me. Our relationship has never been terribly easy though. He bills himself as a New Yorker, and he is loud, brassy and domineering. Underneath that exterior though, is a sensitive guy who needs a very delicate balance of factors to feel validated. This isn't an ideal match for me. I rarely raise my voice, and am generally cordial- but my cool reserve goes deep, and when I argue with people I don't feel anything. It's easy for me to insult people. Not intentionally, and I've gotten better with age, but I have some disconnects.

What really enraged him today is that I told him I didn't need coaching. I know that sounds arrogant, it probably is. I'm not deluded though. Meb is a couple years younger than me, and can run a marathon 30 minutes faster. I wasn't trying to say I am a great runner. I was trying to say I know the path I need to walk.

Like many debates, be they politics, religion, or even running, one conversation often covers another. I tried pointing out to Richie, as he grew increasingly agitated, that we were really debating whether magic workouts exist. For Richie, they absolutely do. He attributes much of his success at Boston to "special blocks", in which you do a hard workout in the morning and another that evening. The theory being that your body is low on fuel reserves, and ..... (fill in scientific mumbo jumbo here) .... and adaptations occur. In seriousness though, I am sure that workout is great for Canova's Kenyan elites, but for a 41 year old father and full-time employee, I feel strongly that the risk of that approach is greater than the reward. As I've mentioned recently, I get injured most when stacking quality too close together, and the higher the mileage, the more caution is needed.

We do have a fundamental disagreement. I don't think there are gatekeepers, or keys, or special workouts. It's not so much that I have the answer- I don't think there's a real question. I think running a good marathon requires a boring, plodding base phase. Then at some point, a few months out, you transition to specific sessions - steady-state runs a bit above and below race pace, wave tempos - most of the things Canova advocates, actually.

And if there is one secret weapon to running, it is consistency. Richie says I'm a narrow minded computer programmer, and X+Y doesn't always = Z. Amusingly, my wife says the same thing. I am narrow minded, and pattern driven. But I still think I'm right. I have to feel that part of Richie's attraction to special workouts can be attributed to his aversion to structured training, which is an extension of his free spirit. His free spirit is one of the things that makes him special. I do think you need to run every day, though, if you want to maximize your potential.

I thought it was an interesting discussion, but Richie was out of sorts. I told him I'd keep tickling him until he got over his mood. Being from California, it's OK for me to do things like that.

Comments
From Rob Murphy on Sun, May 24, 2015 at 09:06:20 from 24.10.247.181

Wow! Can't comment on everything here but I will say I mostly agree with you on the concept of "magic workouts". Solid consistency over months and years is the only thing that really matters in race performance.

Individual workouts and blocks of workouts can be very valuable in terms of your mental prep for a race though.

From jtshad on Sun, May 24, 2015 at 10:28:42 from 69.20.183.178

I agree with Rob. What an interesting opportunity to have such discussions with a running partner.

As a guy in the same boat, I also think that running is 'part of your life', not the only thing. As such, love of the sport and consistency in your training as you advocate is what keeps us middle aged working dad's going, even somewhat competitively. We don't have the luxury of devoting ourselves to a training regiment that some of those programs require.

Good luck with the summer training for TCM.

From Jason D on Sun, May 24, 2015 at 16:31:14 from 75.48.209.157

Fantastic thoughts. I'm a hippy dippy humanities guy, but I also look at patterns (patterns of thought, behavior, and so on). I can also tell you about many patterns of people on the blog.

I'm not a structured person but my running is pretty straightforward and I think consistency is absolutely crucial to maintain as much as a number of factors can pull a person away from being consistent. I'm neither super structure not necessary consistent except for my running. Probably a good lesson there!

Doing workouts without at least one rest day in between seems crazy to me (except for high level elites as you mention). Most of the time it's 2 days. But my schedule has luxuries.

I think structured training that isn't rigid (meaning going according to plan no matter what) is best but maybe that's obvious.

From Bret on Tue, May 26, 2015 at 12:57:38 from 216.234.133.229

Sorry I missed this discussion Drew! As you know, I have spent many a mile running with Richie. If nothing else, his energy and ability to engage in conversation makes the training runs go quickly and generally very entertaining. And he is a great friend and the essence of what I would deem to be all of the qualities of a great runner. But you are also a great runner. Both of you are very different personalities The two of you have different approaches to racing and training. But both of you get results.

I did some of the workouts Richie was talking about last fall when he convinced me to run NYC with him. For what it is worth - the special blocks were not exactly super hard double workouts in one day - but instead two very good quality workouts in the same day. I conceptually understood the theory behind them - and they do make sense. Not sure that his coach or Canova necessarily think they are a "magic workout" either.

In the end, I think Richie has found something that works for him and you have experience with what works for you in your training. I think he was trying to help you, which is not surprising, because that what Richie does...However, not everyone is going to be the same.

From Drew on Tue, May 26, 2015 at 18:08:42 from 24.92.19.68

Bret, you have clear eyes and a level head, and there's a lot I could stand to learn from you.

Reading back over my entry, I'd express myself differently, but then again my goal is to write honestly and off-the-cuff.

To your point, there are absolutely multiple paths that produce results. I have to laugh at myself for coming off as Mr. Structure. I do have that tendency at times, but to Jason's point I am often a jumble in my life *and* in my training. I mean, jeez-I was an English/Philosophy major that stumbled into IT when a monkey could get paid for banging on a keyboard in 1997. Not exactly Dr. Spock.

Fundamentally, Richie and I want each other to succeed, even if we aren't a model of diplomacy in the way we interact at times.

From Jason D on Tue, May 26, 2015 at 18:44:14 from 166.137.90.79

I thought after reading some of your posts I could smell another English/Philosophy major. Your work lead me to believe I was wrong though.

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