Hills for breakfast, hold the gnats

Do not break the camels back, just do what you can!!!

Nice run, sorry about the darn treadmill. I despise them as well.

Nice run today... sorry that some of it was on the treadmill. But I think they are sometimes a necessary evil. Sounds like life is getting even more hectic for you. Interesting video... thanks for the link!

Dreadmill is better than not even being able to run though - another perfect morning for running! That's 3 days in a row!!

Nice mid-week miles Sno.

So, is Hudson saying one should train for a marathon at half-marathon pace...or what? My brain is jello this morning and I can't wrap my mind around this quote.

Nice video. Makes it really apparent why so many shod runners have shin pain.

Sorry you are so busy and had to run on the dreadmill. You are a really good mommy though!

Poor camel.

I have wondered before about that cake-walk comment.

Very interesting video.

JD, Like Carolyn, I have thought about this comment of his for a very long time. Especially for slow folks like me, it makes sense that the marathon pace has to feel pretty comfortable aerobically if one is going to be doing it for FOUR+ hours. I think he is saying that your Aerobic System has to be well trained at half-marathon pace for the MP to be a "cake walk."

Here is a sentence that opens his remarks about Aerobic Support: "The concept of aerobic support refers to the specific foundation of aerobic system development that is best for performance at a given race distance. It's the level at which your aerobic system must be able to function to prevent oxygen delivery from limiting your performance in racing."

And here is the sentence that comes right after the one I quoted in my blog today: "Training your aerobic system for optimal performance at the aerobically more challenging half-marathon distance is the best way to ensure that it sails through the full marathon, even if your legs don't (and they never will!)." [Unless you are trained for ultras - my addition.]

So, what do you all make of that?

My camel is screaming now - gotta go!

Thanks for the quote Sno -- take good care of the camel. It is a challenge and the blog sometimes has to be lowest on the priority list (unfortunately for us, since your lurking around is missed when you are not here).

I think that Brad got it right on the money for me ... without my 1/2 marathon pr preparation my marathon would have been a disaster. However, I think everyone has a "sweet-spot" pace-wise. Some people (like people coming up from middle distances to 5K) train more effectively at the 3K-5K range and some (like me) find it easier and make more improvements building on 10K-1/2 marathon pace. And then there are others that train for longer and longer at marathon pace and it works well for them. I think it is ratio between fast-twitch and slow-twitch fibers maybe?

I was hoping that's what Hudson meant. It makes sense to me to run tempo's at 1/2 marathon pace, thereby pushing the "aerobic support system" beyond what your goal marathon pace is, and making the marathon pace feel more sustainable for the longer haul...

I love Cap'n Crunch BTW. I ate two bowls of it yesterday.

Sno- interesting video, really shows the difference. But according to what I have been reading and been told it looks to me like the barefoot runner is still overstriding. The landing should be right under the hip, not in front of it. That's what Dan Lieberman told me anyway, and what I am working on. The chi running book says the same. Land under the hip, then fall forward and let gravity do the work.

OK, all this talk of Hudson's recommendations on training pace make me think that my decision to stick with 1/2 marathons until I run one "perfectly" is the right way to go! I want to run a 1/2 where my total time is 1:50 (around 8:25/mile), and I FINISH STRONG, hopefully with my fastest splits at the end. Then I would consider myself well trained in the 1/2 M distance. Not that I couldn't get faster from there, but the performance would convince me that I'm handling the aerobic demands of the distance well.

for what it is worth Auntie, this is the approach that I used. I am sure you will be quicker than me at achieving your goal -- but it took me 4 years to get my time to what I had targeted before I would run a marathon. I think it made me much stronger and made my first marathon much less painful than it might have.

Aunt--this is what I"m thinking too. Only 1/2s for me until I'm much faster and stronger!

RedR- I noticed that too and agree with you! Are you really working with THE Dan Lieberman, of the anthropology study on running?

I would have to pipe in that it is a good idea---since I did the opposite and it was HARD and painful and made me quit running for a long while! You guys are all so darn smart!

Sno, I emailed Dan Lieberman and described my running injury, foot properties, and he was kind enough to write back with some detailed advice and observations, including his take on how I got injured and details of running form. He seems very nice, and genuinely interested. I have a very high arched foot, which is uncommon, and all the "experts" have told me to go with orthotics and high cushioned shoes. Dan said the opposite- run in flats and five fingers to provide flexibility and strengthen the calves and feet, let my arch take care of itself without support, shorten the stride and increase turnover rate, and he specifically emphasized not to overstride and to land under the hip. So far I am pretty pleased with the results, I am running faster with the same effort on my easy runs, my stress fracture is healing fine in spite of the minimalist shoes, though I have yet to do any speedwork with this fun new approach. So far so good, I just hope I can keep it up!

Very interesting! Thx.