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Potomac Valley Games

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20072008
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Location:

Alexandria,VA,USA

Member Since:

Jun 03, 2007

Gender:

Male

Goal Type:

Local Elite

Running Accomplishments:

4:34 mile, DC RR Mile, 2007

15:39 5k, Occidental College, 2007

25:52 8k, Rockville Twilighter, 2007

32:54 10k, Shelter Island (tough course!), 2004

49:30 15k, Tulsa Run, 2001

52:21 10 mile, Broad Street Run, Philly (fast course!), 2007

1:08:49 half marathon, Hobble Creek (downhill), 2001

2:28:55 marathon, St. George (downhill), 2006

2:33:04 marathon, Chicago, 2001

Short-Term Running Goals:

15:20 5k

4:25 mile

2:26:00 marathon

Long-Term Running Goals:

sub 15:00 5k

sub 2:22:00 marathon

Personal:

I live in Alexandria, VA, but still consider myself affiliated with Wasatch Athletics in Salt Lake City, UT, and High Noon A.C. in Ithaca, NY. My coach is Demetrio Cabanillas.

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Miles:This week: 0.00 Month: 0.00 Year: 0.00
Race: Potomac Valley Games (3.1 Miles) 00:15:49, Place overall: 1
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
10.000.000.000.0010.00

5:00 AM: 10 min shakeout

8:40 AM: 20 min warm up + 6 strides

9:30 AM: PVTC, Langley H.S., McLean, VA, 5000m "race"... (more like a time trial), 15:49.6, 1st place

1600 splits: 4:58.8, 5:06.1, 5:10.7, 34.2 last 200

Well, obviously not too psyched with the time, but there are some positives to take away from this race. Of course, it's always pretty cool to win. But I need to thank my buddies, Brian Tullock and Joe LaMonte, for coming out to run with me. Tullock is training for Steamtown and is at the end of a 90 mile week, and still traded laps with me for the first half of the race. Joe is also marathon training and decided to try to hit 5:08s as a workout. I think he ended up pretty close to that. Brian was second in 16:01 or so, and Joe was not far behind Brian.

So what were the positives? Well, I felt great for the first mile and I really think that the splits for the next two miles were just due to being complacent and not really racing. I am just not good at pushing the pace by myself. If you look over my 5ks this summer, my times correlate strongly with the level of competition. In CA at Occidental College (Oxy) (15:39), I started in the very back and worked my way up, being in a race the whole time, doing only about half the work in the last half of the race -- and I think most importantly I was in a battle for the last 800... closing with a 68 sec 400. Next, in Albany (15:45), I was all alone for the second half of the race, just as today. BUT, the big difference there was that there was another pack ahead of me to chase.

So, what did I try for this race that did NOT produce magical results?

1. My mileage progression was 100,100,100, 73, 40. In CA, my mileage leading up to the 5k was 100, 107, 72, 92, 67, 75, 70. Just looking at this variable, one might conclude that I race better on consistent 70 mile weeks (after base). My plan is to stay around 70 for XC season.

2. Not to rekindle this debate, but another thing that did not significantly help was abstaining from alcohol for the week leading up to the race. Yes, Sasha, I understand that this does not prove anything about not drinking over the course of a season. But the fact of the matter is that I had a glass of wine the night before the CA race where I PRed. Shouldn't mess with a good thing if it keeps you relaxed.

3. There are also correlations with weather and time of day. In CA it was evening and cool with no direct sun. In Albany and today the race was in the morning and the sun was hot. It was probably 70 by 9:30, which was perfect Labor Day Weekend weather, but still uncomfortable for the race.

4. Another issue is shoes. I raced Oxy in flats and Albany and today in spikes, which I have been training in all season to get use to them. But it is possible that this still is an issue, that it may take several seasons of training and racing in spikes before they become more of a help than a hindrance (but it is just too fun to put spikes on!). Again, this likely has to do with not "being in a race". I think that when I get into a race my form improves and I get out of the "back seat" -- to use skiing terminology. Then the spikes help.

So, in the end I was pretty happy with this result. There just was not an air of "fastness" about the meet. And had I realized there would be not so much competition I probably would not have keyed on it. But I am going to take my lessons from this summer's season and apply them to next year and hopefully get into some competitive races next spring. For now, I think I'm fit and ready for XC.

But if I seriously want to improve I need to understand why my times have gotten slower with more speed work. Obviously, I am doing something wrong and I just got lucky in June. In my ignorance, I thought I was just at the starting point of my training, when really I likely had every bit of aerobic conditioning then as I do now. If I had to point to any one thing, I would say that I was doing more tempo runs back then, and I erroneously thought that hitting the VO2max intervals hard leading up the goal race was the way to peak. Well, it pains me to say so, but in reading the word of the Dark Lord (or the whiskey man -- as my buddy, Boris, calls him -- presumably you can guess of whom I speak), he actually puts the tempo/rep phase just prior to goal race time and a 6 wk VO2max phase prior to that. So, it will be interesting to see as I transition to XC, where I plan to do more tempo fartleks on grass, if I just might have another peak in me in a month or so of some tempo work. Basically, that was all I was doing leading up to Oxy... 4 mile tempos on the weekend at 5:25 pace and race pace reps like 74 sec quarters and 2:30 800s for a mid-week workout.

Other odds and ends of the morning...

I bought a new watch -- the 100 lap Nike, which is basically the new version of the old Nike Triax 120 lap that I have had for about 10 years now. While walking out of Georgetown Running Co. I saw a familiar face from Ithaca running by and so I waved "Tara" down and said hi, with a very surprised look on my face. What are you doing in DC? "Oh, I'm Tara's twin sister, Erin." She was not at all surprised. "It happens all the time," she says... Small world.






Comments
From Bonnie on Sat, Sep 01, 2007 at 13:55:05

Congrats on the win Randy, and I liked your synopsis on how it went.

Interesting about the mileage hypothesis, I will be watching to see how the consistent 70 mpw's work for you ...

I am with you on the alcohol, I have never found that my performance improves with abstinence from alcohol (though certainly it would really hurt if I was drinking to excess).

Have a great weekend.

From Randy on Sat, Sep 01, 2007 at 14:09:35

Thanks Bonnie. I saw that you are planning a Mill Creek run tomorrow. One of my favorite places. Not sure how long you have been in Salt Lake, so you may already know about Jeremy Ranch road (?), which is another great place to do long runs... especially in the summer when it is at least 10 deg cooler in Park City. Cheers... R.

From Bonnie on Sat, Sep 01, 2007 at 14:29:22

Thanks for the info I will have to check out Jeremy Ranch road! I have only been here for 2 months now.

Where are you working in DC? I was at the national center for health statistics for a postdoc and then at GW for a couple of years.

Bonnie

From Paul Petersen on Sat, Sep 01, 2007 at 15:00:53

Nice job.

In college, I found that 60-70 mile weeks were a "sweet spot" for me for 5K-10K racing. It's enough to provide a good aerobic base for that distance, but I was always fresh enough to rip up the track workouts and be aggressive.

Regarding the alcohol, I had a couple beers before the Park City Marathon in 2005, and went on to win easily and almost get the course record. Completely anecdotal evidence, of course, but no better or no worse than the anecdotal evidence that everyone else gives.

From Sasha Pachev on Sat, Sep 01, 2007 at 17:53:32

Randy:

I've observed the same results with a low mileage taper. Similar results with VO2 Max intervals and little or no tempos. I get slower on all distances. With high mileage, tempos, good diet and good sleep I get faster on all distances, even the mile, and race nearly as well without a taper as with one. Case in point - I've run my three life-time best-quality half marathons this August with the mileages the week of the race being 116, 120, and 120. I think that is typical of a slow-twitch guy. My guess is what this proves is that you have a lot of slow twitch fibers (not that you did not know that already).

Interestingly enough, one time I asked David Woodberry, a BYU runner who supposedly could not break 2:11 in the 800 (I think he was a bit faster than that, but still he was at the bottom of the team in short distances), but ran a low-29 10,000 what worked for him. His answer was high mileage and tempos as well. Thinking about how Brandon Rhoades trained when he was running well, it was a 120 mile week, and a lot of tempo fartleks, it seemed like any time I joined him for a run he was doing one.

So given those observations, and my own experience, I'd say VO2 Max work for a slow twitch guy should be very minimal, and the effort should go into the mileage, threshold development, and increasing the fuel storage with marathon pace tempo runs.

From Bonnie on Sat, Sep 01, 2007 at 19:54:30

Randy,

I am intrigued by Jeremy Ranch Road ... thinking about changing the plan for tomorrow and check it out. Can you tell me a little more about it? I saw the map here on the blog and I gather it is a dirt road about how long?

Mill Creek has been on the radar, but we haven't made there yet, I gather it is about 11 miles round trip? How easy is it to add on (with other trails?).

Thank you for the information.

Bonnie

From ChuckH on Sat, Sep 01, 2007 at 23:42:15

Fascinating write up with so much lingo I don't understand.

Sorry to read about your mild disappointment...but congrats on the win.

Maybe try 2 glasses of wine next time?

From Randy on Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 01:44:18

Bonnie, Sorry to not reply sooner (as I was out becoming a less competitive runner), so maybe you will get this in time.

Regarding Jeremy Ranch: Head up toward Park City and take the Jeremy Ranch exit, which is a mile or so before you get to the Kimble (sp?) Junction exit. Go left under the bridge and make another left at the gas station. Make a right just before the driving range. At the top of the hill make a left toward the golf course and neighborhood. That road curves to the right and down a hill for about a mile and you will come to a little parking area and entrance to Jeremy Ranch Rd, which connects Jeremy Ranch with East Canyon Rd. It is about 7.5 miles, so you get a nice hilly 15 miles on dirt... slightly downhill going out.

Regarding Mill Creek, there are tons of options and I would say you can get way more than 11 miles... I mean somewhere up there you can connect to where they run part of the Wasatch 100. Neal and I would start at Rattlesnake Gulch and go up to Elbow Fork and figure that out and back was about 16 on Pipeline. Bill Cobbler runs there all the time. Maybe he can chime in with suggestions. My memory for trail head names and directions is not what it once was.

Have a good one! R.

From Bonnie on Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 10:33:12

Thank you Randy - I did get it in time! It is a nice overcast day today ... perfect for a long run. We are going to try Jeremy Ranch today!

I like running on the trails (except for the fact that I have fallen twice in dry creek canyon) but really like long dirt roads! We have a map of Mill Creek so I can follow some of what you were saying and will try that next weekend.

I hope you have a wonderful rest of the weekend.

Bonnie

From melinda on Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 17:55:05

Well Done! It will be interesting to see if the tempos turn out to be the difference for you. I think you are right about being alone vs. chasing after someone... it's in our nature to push ourselves that much more when we are being measured next to another.

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