Work will win when wishy washy wishing won't

I would just enjoy the no soreness factor. We are all jealous of you. Great job to Tani. Its always nice to be the one who saves the day.

I want your legs!!! Great job Tani! There is nothing sweeter than watching your kids excell!!!! Bask in your motherly pride moment!!

Kim if you could figure out the secret of no soreness and sell it to the masses you (we?) would be one rich chickadee! I would be your first customer as I can't remember the last time I didn't feel a bit of something somewhere during that first mile of the run.

Seems like you're one of those lucky ones who has been blessed with a great set of legs (in more ways that one :)) and great form that allows you to maybe push yourself a bit harder than most of us can.

Hopefully some of your feeling great is related to the coaching you've been recieving ;) Looks like Coach Tom may need to push you a little harder!

I'll tell you what...if you're not sore after the 1st time we do the Payson Lakes downhill run then you must be some kind of freak of nature!

We really should go on a run with Sasha sometime and have him watch you run a bit and give us a Sasha Science analysis.

Fantastic ball game. Sound like one of those day dreams where you're fabulous. Way to go Tani!

I am so glad someone is not sore! I feel like a creeky old lady sometimes, you know the ones with a cane.

Hey Kim- (or coach Tom) Not to take over your blog again today, but... about an hour after my long runs I pretty much crash and burn. Not with soreness, but with tiredness, depression maybe. I want to get in bed and lay there for the rest of the day, I'm irritable too. I can usually fake my way through it and by 4pm feel normal. I do drink about a qt of gatoraid(sp?) and a very large protein shake with milk (4-5 Cups). I am just wondering if that's just normal or am I missing something nutritionally- or am I NUTS?. I hate feeling so burned out for most of a day. It's a bummer for the family. Any ideas?

Marion, while diet, stress levels, etc. can play a role in the post-long-run tiredness you describe, I think it is mainly a function of your long run distance being quite a bit longer than what you average daily mileage is. This is one of the big downsides to lower-mileage training programs that promote running less than 6 days a week and/or promote running only a few miles (relative to the length of the long runs) on weekdays.

I can't recall exactly what Sasha recommends for how much longer the long run should be compared to what the body is used to running on the 5 weekdays (note the emphasis on "5" weekdays, not 3 or 4) but I think when you start going more than twice or even 1.5 times what your body is used to running on the weekdays, then it starts taking a heavy toll on the body and nervous system, especially if you run the long run at the same or faster pace than what you run on the other days.

So that being said I would suggest the following to lessen the tiredness factor. If these things aren't doable with your current situation I would just say try and prep your family for the expected tired day and see if they'll cut you some slack and let you get a good nap:

Rather than keep increasing your weekly mileage by adding to the long run distance, spread those extra miles across the weekday runs so that you usually run the same miles every day with the long run being ideally no more than twice this daily average.

Keep the long runs slower paced. If you really are wanting to push the speed consider doing it during a mid-week shorter run rather than on the long run.

Rest 1 day a week. No running. Usually the day after the long run is the best day for this.

Eat good stuff. Since you and Kim are both WW gurus you pretty much know what a good diet should be...lot's of whole grains, nuts, fruits, veggies, easy on the sweets and processed/junk foods.

Try and eat a good nutritious meal within 1 hour after finishing your run. If you wait longer than this the body doesn't refuel as efficiently and the tiredness factor will be worse.

If you have a lot of stress of any kind then try and reduce it if you can.

While nap are good things, try to resist the urge to just lay around and do nothing on long run days. I've noticed it helps alot with overall recovery to keep moving and walking around, doing yard work, etc., rather than just sitting or laying around all day.

Marion - one more thing I recalled than can be a problem especially for female runners...do you have any problems with anemia? Kim has had this in the past and it can really sap your energy so make sure you get enough iron.

Most excellent advise, oh wise one!

#1 I do feel MUCH better if I just keep moving. The first time it happend, I caved, lazed around and was horrible for 3 days.

#2 I am going to increase my daily mileage vs my long run mileage. In prep for Hobble creek we are doing for long runs,9,7,10,7,11,6,12,7, race. Still following the gradual increase in weekly mileage with rest weeks included. I will add the extra mileage to the daily runs- not the long runs.(I have all of this in excel if you want to take a look- I have through december planned -ocd, I know)

#3 I have been working on better nutrition and will make sure to have a healthy meal asap when I get back.

#4 I haven't had a problem with anemia for a while, but my thyroid has been out of wack and we are currently getting that under control.

I think you are right about the long run being just a smidge too long for me as of yet. I am gonna have to get over it and get acustom to it. Maybe I will have a t-shirt made "Tired Training Momma- WATCH OUT!!!"

THANKS SO MUCH!! I knew you'd be able to help!

Gosh, that was great advice! I am glad you asked Tom that question, that was a warehouse of helpful information. I am taking his advice to heart. Good Luck Marion, I am in your shadow following along. I totally agree about the recovery after a long run or race, if I kick back too long, I get cranky and feel like crap. I do like to treat myself to a short nap if I can squeeze it in and then keep moving. Thank you Tom and Marion!!!

You could also thank me for providing a thread to give all this advice on! :) Coach Tom does have a lot of knowledge on the subject! He learned everything the hard way. He ran several years on his own without someone showing him the way. He learned by trial and error. I am so glad he is able to help me, (I guess I should say "all of us"), so I/we don't have to make the same mistakes along the way! Thanks O Wise One, Coach Tom/cute hubby!

YES!!! Thank you Kim too!! You guys are truely an inspiration, I am so excited about improving my running, thanks for all the tips!!

What great advice, Tom!! Thanks! I'm gonna take that to heart too as I train for my first half marathon. Kim, you're doing awesome!! Congrats to your PR weekly mileage!!