"There are no compromises." -Once a runner

January 12, 2026

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Location:

Pleasanton,CA,US

Member Since:

May 01, 2008

Gender:

Male

Goal Type:

Local Elite

Running Accomplishments:

1M 4:53.2

5k 17:19 Spring 2009

5M 28:52

10M 59:47 (on way to my half PR)

13.1 1:18:47 2009 New Bedford Half Marathon

26.2 2:57:55 2008 Mohawk Hudson River Marathon

 

Short-Term Running Goals:

Train for pacific crest trail thru hike 2017.

Run lots of miles and lose some weight in the process.

DON'T FALL OFF THE WAGON

Extend childhood (at least from fitness perspective) into my mid 40's

 

Long-Term Running Goals:

 

I want to beat my half marathon PR. And if I'm in shape to do that then I should be able to crush my marathon PR.

Personal:

31y/o computational biologist. Hoping to take 5 months off next year to hike the PCT.

Favorite Blogs:

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Miles:This week: 0.00 Month: 0.00 Year: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesCrosstraining milesTotal Miles
12.600.000.002.500.0015.10

AM: got up at 3am after 3hrs sleep, drove 2.5hrs to redding, CT and ran 8.1 with bedoukian.  Was very fun.  Just like old times.  Like we'd been running together every day and this was just another run.  I did realize that his 70 miles per week is really equivalent to my 80-85 because he is on trails.  Same effort is 1-1.5 min slower per mile so that makes 70-100min more running per week than it appears by miles which is like getting 10-15 more miles in to your CV system and leg muscles.  Definitely not training the pounding quite like I am which I do think starts to be important for the half marathon.  Its on roads and you have to be able to be loose and fast after 10+ miles of asphault pounding.  But he will do fine with that.  He is and always will be the long distance beast among us.  And he has decent speed.  I saw it when he was careening downhill on trails.  Even with my "lack of caring for life or limb" mentality I thought he was going pretty fast.  He just needs to find that again on the roads and track.  Among the 3 in our little challenge, he has been the most consistent over the past 3 years and I will not yet count him out.

PM: drove another 9 hours after the am run down to salem, VA where I found a cat friendly hotel, put the cats in the room, and googled for the nearest track to get in my missed workout.  First I went to this middle school with an asphault track, warmed up around the school, stretched, striders, then did the first 200 in 29sec easy and decided the track was not 400m or 200m but some weird distance that was not posted.  So I then went across town to the high school and at first I didnt think they had a track, but it was big and they had tons of practice fields.  So I ran around and finally found a massive 10 lane track that i didnt see before because it was raised on this plataue thingy.  It was a super soft track, and the 10 lanes along with the curves being longer than the straightaways made it seem long and slow.  Okay, so this workout was very strange times wise.  Remember I had 3hrs sleep, 8miles on trails, and 11.5 hours in a car.  So here we go 4x200 in 40, 40 (felt like i correctly sped up but apparently not), 37(thought I went way faster, but only just now hit my time), 36 (expected a 34 lol) 2x400 in 72, 74 (okay seem to have my legs back now for the most part) 1x800 2:25 (yay, this was worrying me, went out in 71 and back in 74, some lactic acid I will admit my arms got pretty stiff with it) 2x400 in 73, 75, 4x200 in 34, 32, 35, 29.16! (full on sprint, my 200m PR is 28.high).  Okay weird workout but got it in and the 800 was well within my goal of 2:30.  I do question whether these speed workouts would be better shorter with longer recoveries.  The next one is 4x(200m[400], 800m[600]) or something like that.  I ask, what is the point of doing 4 repeats of 1/2 of a race distance at race pace.  That is very intense.  As an integrating workout (integrating speed, lactic acid resistance, and endurance) in the final phase before a mile race I can understand it.  But in the first phase of training for a much longer race I dont understand the reason.  He seems to say he is training the CNS to run fast efficiently but in fact he is training the muscles and the lactic acid system.  Basically I am thinking about changing these workouts to something more like 5-6x200m all out with full recovery and 4x4x200m with 200m between reps and 400m between sets doing cutdowns like 37, 35, 33, and nearly all out.  The first workout actually builds speed.  The second one teaches you to relax at speed.  Opinions?

Weight: 0.00Calories: 0.00
Comments
From Henry on Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 16:32:21 from 12.33.204.66

wait what. you did 8 miles and then a (funny/good) workout on 3 hours of sleep and a bunch of driving??? hot damn. nice job on the workout, you definitely woke up during it lol.

you and bedoukian will have the miles on me, althoughh after next week i'll be picking them up! prolly not quite up to 80 though lol, and not for an extended period anywhere near as long as you two.. this summer is pretty interesting with the different training techniques going on.

From Henry on Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 16:42:54 from 12.33.204.66

as for the workouts, that is interesting. if you think you're training your muscles and lactic acid system to run more efficiently, is that what you want to do? idk, maybe. lactic acid probably less so for the half, but muscle efficiency seems good for anything.

that makes sense about building speed then relaxing at speed. i feel like i have no idea though lol.

i feel like i've been told to be careful with speed work because you can get injured if you do it too often or don't have the base/strength, but you've certainly got the base and repeats and tempos help with strength. so prolly no big deal.

From wheaton on Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 16:43:01 from 72.146.31.164

But you will get much more marginal benefit from increasing your miles than we have because you are going from 40s-60s or 70s while we have trained at 60s and 70s for several seasons so why should we expect much more out of that or by moving to 80s. What do you think about my speed workout ideas? And what do you think about daniels workouts this early in the season?

From wheaton on Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 16:49:22 from 72.146.31.164

when you have some time read this thread http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=162612&thread=162612 particularly the posts by racer1 (copied/pasted posts by a famous coach john kellog) especially the example of 'joe'.

From KP on Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 16:52:00 from 65.208.22.25

my opinion is that you confused the crap outta me! i wonder which of you will win this competition. when is this race?

welcome home. alabama sucks, eh?

From wheaton on Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 17:05:57 from 72.146.31.164

10/10/10 8:30am, albany NY. Mohawk Hudson river half marathon. little bit downhill but not so much that you would call it assisted, point to point, fast as hell.

From Henry on Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:50:29 from 12.33.204.66

ok, so i read most of that post, very interesting. if what the guy says in the joe example is true, then i would say you should not do your speed work with short rest. this also agrees with what my friend Derek has told me about the speed work he does at school for the 800 (he ran 1:56 this past outdoor season lol). if you're doing speed work, it seems like long rest is the way to go. i think sprinting is not so much like distance running, where you need to be able to run fast when you're tired. instead, you'll be able to hit your max speed in a kick, so you have to do high quality repeats (i.e. long rest) to help increase that max speed. your mileage and distance workouts will help you maintain it probably. as for starting now, i don't know much about peaking for races, but i don't think it can hurt too much. there are like 15 weeks until the half, and that guy "joe" started seeing his results flatten out in 10. you would rather reach that leveling out and continue increase your repeats or whatever, rather than not have enough time to level out. i think it's ok to be doing workouts now, since i think there is a lot of potential to build them up. you're gonna taper for this right? :P lol.. my mileage for like 3 weeks before the race will be almost embarassing haha

From Henry on Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:53:17 from 12.33.204.66

short rest, by what the guy says, looks more like speed maintenance than speed building. i think it's early to do that. maybe if you see that your 200s are no longer improving, you could go for the "2 sets of 5-6 200s w/ 200m rest and 5-10 min jog between sets" that he mentions

From Henry on Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:55:56 from 12.33.204.66

actually, you sort of already said what i said in your post lol. i guess you can do that change :P

From wheaton on Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:23:54 from 72.146.31.164

Well, I don't care about closing speed for a half marathon. What I think speed does (and jamie would ardently disagree with me) is allow you to run comfortably at a faster pace because it is much slower than your all out pace. So right now my all out 200m is 29sec and my threshold pace is roughly 45sec per 200m. If I can drop my 200m all out time from 29 to 27 or 26 then maybe I could run 43 or 42 sec 200m pace all day (that's 5:44 and 5:36 pace respectively)? Fast guys moving up in distance do great. So why cant it go the other way around (slow guys improving speed also improve distance performance). Maybe the return isn't as great as that, but I strongly suspect that there is some decent return.

As for tapering, it can be overdone. I plan to go down to 70-75ish miles per week for 4-6 weeks before the race and increasing the pace of all of my runs somewhat. Then the week before the race I will drop to like 40-50. My 1:18:45 was on the end of an 80 mile week.

From Henry on Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:33:42 from 12.33.204.66

agreed, closing speed won't matter much; i mean what you said, moving from 29 to 27 hopefully will bring a faster threshold pace with it.

the mileage plan my coach sent me has like several weeks of dropping mileage by like 5 miles a week, and the last 3 weeks are like 45, 35, 25 (this is with a max weekly mileage of like 60 mpw). it also says to increase pace during that time.

pretty nice lol. that was such a crazy race..

From wheaton on Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:39:29 from 72.146.31.164

Thats not a totally unreasonable taper but a bit much in my opinion. Ive done 3 week tapers and those were my worst marathons. You just feel like you aren't training anymore and you start drinking and eating too much and just cant keep it focused. And I feel like 10 days is enough to recover from pretty much anything that isn't overtraining to begin with. You want to feel fit, focused, confident. You don't want to feel that itch to go long and hard for more than a few days in my opinion.

From Henry on Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:43:20 from 12.33.204.66

that is definitely a good point. i had that issue in high school where i lost confidence in my running and lost the "edge" during tapering. i just did not feel strong. i may revise the plan a little lol

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