M'kay

Dale--

There's a couple of us in Western WA who will be running Seattle. I'm also going to try and BQ (though looking at your training I think you may have the better shot). If you'll be in town before then and are interested in hooking up for a taper run, drop a line, otherwise maybe we can meet up at the starting line.

Aaron,

Thanks for the invite. I'm close enough that I'm planning on driving to Seattle the morning of the race. Not sure where you're at...I'm up for some easy runs over the next couple of weeks, but I'm out in Eatonville which isn't near much (aside from Mt. Rainier). Plus, I generally run around lunchtime so I can break up my workday a bit.

Am definitely interested in linking up for the race though...are you a 3:15 BQ'er? I'm recovering from Portland where I went out fast with the 3:10 rabbit, who went out doing sub-7s for the first few miles, and needless to say, miles 19 and beyond got ugly. I don't want to make that mistake again, but am cautious of the late hills in this race, so I'm up for ideas on pacing.

Are you running a tune-up race? I'm going to run a 10K in Carnation, WA this Saturday as a final tune-up before taper begins in earnest (well, okay, and a 17 miler on Sunday, and THEN a serious taper). Didn't choose that 10k for any reason other than it's the only one I could find.

Well, 3:15:59--and I plan to use all of it. Maybe we can hook up out your way in Dec or January if the weather isn't too foul. I'm always glad to run in beautiful places!

My plan was to go out at 7:40 or thereabouts and then hit 7:00-7:10 between the floating bridge and the hill. If that works for you it would be great to have someone running my speed. Drop me an email ashakow at gmail.com as the date approaches and I'll send you my cell number so we can make a plan to meet beforehand.

No official tune-up planned, since I've been struggling a bit with plantar fasciitis. Planning a fast 5k on Friday around Greenlake, that's about it.

My email is dale.marchand@gmail.com.

I’ll have to relook the elevation map, but my instinct is saying I need to keep my pace in the 7:14 range unless it’s a downhill section. I wound up inadvertently “banking time” in Portland and dying for the last 10k, a mistake I don’t want to repeat. Of course, the hills on the profile after 21m are scaring the heck out of me, especially since I’ve never seen this course before. I know 7:27 miles gets me 3:15, and McMillan says I can run 7:14 miles, so I was thinking of starting out (after 1-2 mile warmup at whatever feels comfy) running 7:14s on the flats, a bit faster on the downhills, and whatever felt like it wouldn’t make me die on the uphills. After bonking bad on the last one, I’m hoping more aggressive refueling and a more pedestrian pace will carry the day.

Just curious. Why the aggressive middle miles on the flat? Whatever will work for you, I’m just wondering because that strategy has backfired on me in the past, but maybe I can learn something!

Sorry to hear about the injury...I've been blessed for almost a year now but I feel for you (injuries are why Seattle wasn't my first marathon last year).

Good luck on hitting that 10K barrier down!

Well, it's a bit of a balance isn't it between leaving enough wiggle room to slow down on the last 10k and not wearing one's self out. Right or wrong, my logic was that 7:10 is not really much more of a strain than 7:15, and gains me about two and a half minutes to play with. I'm expecting to do about eight-something on the hill, which is not too daunting except that it comes so very late. Anyway, I'd give 7:14 a try for the first half at least and see how I'm feeling after that. As for the PF, it's very manageable if I'm sensitive to it. I just didn't want to risk anything this close to the marathon.

Dave: Thanks!

Aaron: Sounds like you know more about the course than I, so you're logic is probably more sound than mine. I'm just very very leery of blowing off too much energy too early, and it'd be nice to have a fairly evenly paced marathon instead of my past 2 experiences. Anyway, I'm sure I'll come up with and discard another dozen or so ideas before the race.

Glad to hear your PF is under control. Don't blame you for playing it safe one bit. Guess I just need some (mind) reassurance before the SM that I'm still on track, especially since I'm trying to bounce back fairly quickly from an aggressive Portland run.

Thoughts on hydration. From my experience I believe it is not so much about how much water you take in during the run, as it is about being healthy enough (for lack of a better word) to be able to:

a) accumulate adequate water supply in the body from regular diet prior to the run/race

b) use the water efficiently during the race/run

c) replenish efficiently during the race

d) run well when the water supplies are low

It all goes back to the health of the body, and it is developed overtime with training and healthy diet. I've discovered through a number of experiences that you cannot force-hydrate before or during a race. If your body is not healthy enough to take it, you will just lose it, and it will actually be a minus because you lose electrolytes as well. On the other hand, a healthy body can do very well without additional supplies. I hardly ever take anything during my long runs, and they are pretty hard - lately 20 miles with first 10 uphill at a brisk easy pace, and the last 10 downhill at aggressive marathon pace. This is not what I would do in a marathon race, I believe giving your body a chance to replenish is a good idea, but for me the hassle of putting the supplies out on the course or carrying them is not worth it. I would do it, though, if it was convenient.

Good points. I rarely take fluids on training runs...generally only those lasting more than 2 hrs (excepting runs in the summer...I 'suffer' much more in the heat, which for me is 65+). I've noticed that I've gotten stronger on runs that deplete my water/energy reserves over time (a trend I hope continues with regular training).