Motivated to Succeed

Sounds like a good run this morning and a good training plan. Time-based plans work better than distance-based plans for many people, and they have the built-in advantage of effort-based training. If you feel good, you'll go faster, and if you feel slow (probably indicative of a need to recover from something), you'll run slower, but you get your time goal regardless. I have often thought of switching to time-based training, but I always turn out to be too OCD about the distance. Good luck with the new plan!

Yeah I know I've never tried a time based one before. I am going to hopefully make my short term goal this week of 20 miles, and build from there. We'll see how amny minutes I'm at, and I'll slowly build from there.

Question for you Nevels :

How long should I be doing a base building phase for? i.e. if I work up to running 5 hrs a week, should I stay at 5 hrs for a month? 2 months? before thinking about doing a marathon plan

Most training plans I've seen say that a good base phase will take anywhere from 8 to 12 weeks; that being said, I've been doing nothing but base for about 4 years, but with a target marathon in mind, I'd build the base and get to the point of being able to do your 5 hours/week for a couple of weeks, maybe a month before working in some speedwork/tempo type training. The problem with holding a base too long is that, in the words of Mark Wetmore (XC coach at Colorado), "Long, slow distance tends to make long, slow runners." Once you have built up the base of strength and stamina to continue training, you can focus in on event-specific training, which will continue to have almost as much distance/time running with a little speed worked in. All in all, I would allow 3 months or so of just base, then another 2-3 months to prepare for a specific marathon.

What a nice weather to run in!

I've read about many elite ultrarunners training for time instead of distance. Here's an article on that you may find interesting http://blog.irunfar.com/2008/02/training-advice-from-anna-pichrtova.html.

Good luck with your goal, you can do it!

Hey Lucia I couldn't get the link to show up. Do I have to register or something to view it?

Nevels - Thanks for the suggestion. Do you think that I could consider doing a Marathon in late May if everything continues to improve?

How strange... did you try copying and pasting the link on your browser instead? You don't need to register to view it. You can also go to irunfar.com and use the search feature for anna pichrtova.

figured it out! there was a (.) period thrown in there in the link. Copied and pasted the rest and it brought it up fine!

I highly doubt I would have the time to invest in 2 a days all the time. Plus I take it that's her full time job? From what I've read with distance running, a great majority of sustaining endurance comes from the long run. At least that's what I've gathered from a lot of the marathon prep books I've read. I think that for me, the key is going to be to build up basic fitness, and then get some endurance and slowly build up the long weekend run, all while maintaining those shorter 30-60 minute weekday runs. It's tough with work and full time grad classes though.

Yeah, I know... it's helpfun to read the "ideal" situation/plan to run, but then of course we have to adapt it to our schedules. Two-a-days are often easier than one long run. Before my injury I often ran 5 miles to work and 5 miles home a few days a week.

This posting on doubles from the FRB discussion board gives you good ideas too. Even if you can run 20-30 minutes right before heading to work/school in the morning, it's supposed to be very beneficial to your training... But I understand it's often not possible, especially working/going to school.

http://fastrunningblog.com/forum/index.php/topic,228.msg2298.html#msg2298

So would 2 a days be an easier way of upping your mileage for both marathon and ultra training then? I guess it would seem easier to log 10 miles a day if you broke it into 3 and 7 or 4 and 6 mile chunks. Probably less strain on the body too? but that is to be done in conjunction with a long run every week or 10 days, right?

Please don't take my advice too seriously - I'm by no means an expert, but can tell you about what I've read or heard from experts.

First, I would go to doubles only after you're running every day or 5-6 days a week. Second, there are different theories about what's the best way to train, of course. Sasha actually wrote in Lybi's blog, I believe, that the long run (more than 13 miles) is not as important as lots of weekly miles. Yet you are correct, most training plans really emphasize the importance of the long run.

Personally, I like to mix things up. Some days do a double, some days do a longer run at once, and I never skip the long runs. Different things work for different people; you have to try them and decide what you feel works best for you. Many people don't do well running in the morning, but most races are in the morning, so if you train always in the afternoons, you may be in trouble... I've heard some people say that doubles increase your chances of injury, but I'm not sure they knew what they were talking about... most stuff I read from experts says it's good for the body and to get faster.

I think that a marathon in late May is very doable for you.

As far as running doubles, it has its pros and cons. If you're going to get a certain mileage (or time) running for the day, splitting it up into more than one run will allow for a little recovery to occur, which, in my experience, makes the mileage easier on the body. On the other hand, in training for longer races, it is fairly important (at least for me) to get used to spending time on my feet all at once. Put all of it together, and I think that the most ideal way to train would be to build up to high enough mileage to warrant doubles, using the doubles as a more healthy way of getting the mileage to build up fitness, and throw in long runs when the training calls for it to get that aspect in. Unfortunately, like you (HC), I am taking a full graduate course load and doing research work, so doubles don't fit often. In any case, doubles or singles, high or low miles, long run or no - it all depends on how your body responds to the different types of training as to how to optimize it, and the only way to really figure it out is through trial and error, hopefully with the error not leading to injury.

Yeah I think I will have to experiment like you said and just listen to my body. I'm a little concerned about next semester only because I'm doing 12 credits plus my research seminar and a lot of observation hours. I know I will have to utilize the treadmill, but as that is where my injury first became noticeable it will take some getting used to as I'm sure initially it will be an unnerving experience. I was thinking that just plodding along at 6mph 10:00 pace will be a good base building on the treadmill to get miles in hopefully pain free during the winter.

What are you studying, Nevels? And you wouldn't happen to have any suggestions for possible marathons in the Middle Atlantic/ New England region in the spring? I have done Vermont City Marathon and that was fun, but I was kind of hoping to try and get a marathon in every state. that would be a cool goal I think. So far I have done NY and VT. haha only 48 more to go!

What an amazing run Benn! That is the best picture. I love the fog in the trees! I miss fog. We don't get it here in utah much. Your return to running seems to be solid! I like the run for time idea. It's true. Have a great week!

I like your running strategy approach. I've done training by time. In fact it's the best way to training if your doing multiple marathons not very far apart. Hal Higdon has this approach in his multiple marathon training.

Take it slow on your way back, and allowing your feet to be out there along time at a slow pace is a big key for building a good aerobic base. Benn I'm very happy for you that your running and I've been praying for that achillies to get healed.

Like I said before if you train properly you can cut an hour off your marathon time guaranteed. You'll remember my comment once you do it.

Thanks, Marion! That pic is of Emma and me the day we went apple picking. There was a really nice garden of Black Eyed Susans and her sister was nice enough to take a picture of us :).

As for running, I am hoping that this good luck continues. I am planning on doing 4 runs a week right now, and hopefully working in a 5th maybe just 20 or 30 minute one in a few weeks.

I love black eyed susans. There are still fighting the frezing temps! They are SO hearty and beautiful. I think I love them so much becasue they are beautiful no matter where they grow and they are always looking to the sun, standing tall! They are very symbolic to me! :)

One of the same reasons I love them. They remind me of Emmy. They can grow almost anywhere and they are simple, yet amazingly beautiful.

Kory - I still can't wrap my head around taking an HOUR off my marathon time. To be honest though I haven't stopped thinking about that since you mentioned it. I really hope to heal up nice and slowly build back that aerobic base. Even going out there for a slow jog is a plus in my book :). I can't wait for another crack at the marathon! You're one of my inspirations on this blog. I know I'll never be anywhere near as fast or talented as you, but you show what strength, determination, and a desire to do better can do. You've helped me keep the faith when a lot of people would have quit already. Thanks for always keeping spirits high. God bless.

I am in civil engineering (structural, specifically) doing research in blast effects; I really lucked out on my research project.

I don't know of too many races in your neck of the woods, other than the obvious New York Marathon. I do think that there are some good ultras up there, but I guess the best thing to do is look up the local track/running clubs and see what you can find. I guarantee that you can find marathons in and around your area.

Thanks for the comments on my blog. Actually I do not have great bio-mechanics but I have always had good endurance. I am trying to turn that in to speed over the next 2 years...we will see how it goes.

I believe almost anyone can run a sub-4:00 marathon if they are willing to put in the miles and time. Consistency has been the key for me. Once you get in solid marathon shape maintaining it is not as hard. Try to consistently run 5 days per week. The daily mileage at first does not matter and will build pretty rapidly. GOOD LUCK!!!

Look at it this way I've taken off 1 hour and 13 minutes off my first marathon. This should have been even more this year if things would have went right in St. George.

It's possible to do with consist training. But you have to be consist and be dedicated and want that as one of your goals.

Actually, I do think you could be faster than me if you decide that's what you want to do. Because your still very young (how old are you)?

Also, thank you for the kind words. I love reading your blog because you put so much detail in your blog. You should be a writer.

I'm 22. I'll be 23 on May 28.

I think one of my problems is that I've never had a definitive plan to follow in training. I just kind of figured oh well if I run a lot I'll get endurance and speed.

If you want to run one in DC, the National Marathon is in March http://www.nationalmarathon.com - this year the weather was horrible, so next year it should be beautiful! Or, if you prefer smaller races, here's another one (a bit hilly) http://www.pvtc.org/marathon.html

I have a spare room that you and Emma are welcome to stay in.

In case you're interested, some of the races on this site look fun:

http://www.newyorkultrarunning.org/