The Qwer Old Fella's Marathon Method

November 01, 2024

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Location:

Tralee,Ireland

Member Since:

Oct 01, 2011

Gender:

Male

Goal Type:

Other

Running Accomplishments:

I've never worn compression socks.

Short-Term Running Goals:

To do a race.

Long-Term Running Goals:

1. Break the world record for the marathon in the 50+ age group, when I'm 50 in 2015.

2. Never wear compression socks.

 

Personal:

Married with two girls (6 and 10).

The Qwer Old Fella's Marathon Method is a four year experiment.

The first year (2012) was about getting back into running, staying off the smokes and booze, while sticking to a healthy eating plan and shedding mountains of lard. All boxes ticked.

Year two (2013 - age: 48) Injured Jan through March. Build back up and work on my 5k speed. Goal 15:45.

Year three (2014) will be about doing my first marathon in the spring. (Just for the experience and on a tough course - maybe Tralee; goal time, 2:30ish.) Then begins the prep work for Berlin 2015

Year four (2015) is all about breaking the world record for the marathon in the 50+ age group - it's only 2:19 :).

The above might sound nuts; it is, but then I'm nuts. Please do not copy any of the training I do: if you do, you are likely to end up running like me - not a good idea.

The idea is to have a laugh along the way. If I fail, I don't know what I'll do - my whole belief system will crumble and I suspect that this little rock might just stop spinning for a couple of seconds. Jakers, I better not fail for all our sakes. That's some burden, even for SuperBam.

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Miles:This week: 0.00 Month: 0.00 Year: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
6.000.000.004.0010.00

10:30 a.m. 10 miles: 3 warm up incl 6x100m strides with jog back rec, 4x1 mile off 90 sec jog rec, 3 mile shuffle home.

Last time I did this session (3 weeks ago) my splits were all over the place -5:29, 5:20, 5:27, 5:19 - AP 5:24) and since then I've only done one proper workout of 5x0.5 miles. Based on my half mile splits - using Horwill's 4 sec rule - I should have done today's workout in 5:24's. I'd have taken that because I've been all over the shop with the training recently (trying to find the balance between miles and speed and threshold etc). So here's how it went:

1. 5:21, 2. 5:22, 3. 5:23, 4. 5:28. AP 5:23.5

I was pleased with the workout, not because of the times but because I was able to lock the splits in a bit better. I still did the first 200m-400m of each rep too quickly, which messed the session up a bit. But it wasn't too bad. Ironically, the last rep was most pleasing: I fought hard to keep the session together. I was on my hands and knees at the end.

The session has highlighted and exposed a couple of things that I already knew. I need to concentrate more on my aerobic capacity, aerobic resistance and strength. But I've got this covered in 'The Bam Method'.

'The Bam Method' kicks off from the beginning of September, as I will have been 'running' for a year and that seems like an appropriate date to start. When I start 'The Bam Method', I will highlight what I believe to be the pros and cons of the more popular methods used in marathon training today. I'll also present 'The Bam Method' so that it can be scrutinized, criticized and any thing else 'ized'. The beauty and the nuances of the system will be explained, too.

Now, this is something from Canova that Bret and Jake and the school master (Mr Murphy) might find interesting, and anybody else:

... Instead, when you want to increase your marathon at high level, YOU START FROM SPEED AT MARATHON PACE OR SIMILAR, and the first step is to use ALL YOUR CARBOHYDRATES in order to run still some minute in total depletion of sugar, for obliging muscular fibres in using THE MOST POWERFUL SOURCES OF FATTY ACIDS in order to maintain a similar speed. For example, if an athlete able running HM in 65.0 wants to prepare a marathon for 2:15 (really not difficult), he can run without big problems 28km at 3:15 pace (1:31), but after this goes to finish his reserves of glycogen, and his pace goes down dramatically. If he is able to run yet 3 km at 3:25 / 3:35 / 3:45, THESE LAST 3 KM ARE THE REAL TRAINING, because his fibres have to go to search some other hidden tank, under necessity. The next time, the same athlete becomes able running at 3:15 not 1:31, but 1:41 (for 31 km), so his long fast run must be extended to 34 km with the last 3 without glycogen.
So, in the first case we start with an empty glass that we go to fill with fatty acids, in the second case we start from a glass full of glycogen that we go to empty step by step, in order to fill the remaining part with qualified fatty acids.

When I speak about FAST LONG RUN, don't think that ALWAYS long run must be fast. If I go to prepare a
Marathon, I use one specific long run every week, alternating two different ways :
a) DURATION - I don't have particular care about the pace. I start from
1:30, and in short time I move to 1:45 - 2:00 - 2:15 - 2:30. This training is at 70% of your HM pace (for ex., if you have a PB in HM of 70.20 that is a pace of 3:20 per km, and is the first time that you want to prepare a marathon, your pace for DURATION can start from 4:20. At the beginning of your training (may be 5 months before your Marathon), once a week you go for DURATION, in order to reach the ability in lasting the full marathon time, in short time, because your long run is very easy.

b) When you are able running, for example,
2:30, you can start to qualify the DURATION using a progression for the last 15:00, after 30:00, and so and so.

c) But, when you are able running
2:30 of DURATION, you start also your training of DISTANCE. Distance is a precise distance (forgive me again), that you go to run at even pace, about 90/95% of your HM pace (and this has to become your Marathon pace). So,. in the previous case, 95% of 3:20 is 3:30. You can start with 24km at 3:30, and the progression is TO EXTEND THE SAME PACE, running 26 and then 28 and so and so.

d) When you have both DURATION and DISTANCE in your program, the system is TO QUALIFY THE SPEED OF THE DURATION, and TO EXTEND THE DURATION OF THE PACE OF THE DISTANCE. You can alternate these 2 long runs, one in one week, the second in the next week. At the end, you become able to build a funnel, where your DURATION is
2:30 at 3:40, and your DISTANCE are 36 or 38 km at 3:30. When you are able to do this, be sure that you can run your full marathon at 3:30 finishing faster the last 10k, and, if you go for a HM one month before your Marathon (of course we can use, in every week, another specific workout of extension : so, no more than 2 workouts per week), your PB can move from 65 to 64 without big problems.
All the other days are for GENERAL VOLUME (many km slow or following your sensation, in any case easy) or for RECRUITMENT OF THE HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF FIBRES (using very short sprints uphill).

I love the way he says, when talking about running 2:15, "really not difficult".

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00Weight: 133.00
Comments
From Russ on Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 09:07:19 from 74.114.3.253

I hadn't heard of Canova until this month's Running Times came out & now I'm seeing his name splattered all over. Very cool. I also recently noticed McMillan espousing the view that every other long run should be without nutritional replacement in order to get the body to use other reserves. Drink water, but eat nothing. Not sure I can hack that but maybe you elites can manage to starve while running. Me, I like to eat on my long runs.

Also, lime green font on a yellow background? Oy!

From allie on Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 09:17:38 from 174.23.155.117

interesting stuff, bam. thanks for sharing. it reminds me of sasha's concept of fat miles: http://fastrunningblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1120.0

anxious to hear more about the bam method. if you ever wanted to write a book on it, you already have an excellent, catchy title going for you. consider it.

From Bam on Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 09:18:03 from 89.204.229.9

Russ, I think you've eaten so much when you're out on your long runs that it has messed up your eyes. Lime green font? :) Thanks for pointing that out.

From Russ on Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 09:40:09 from 74.114.3.253

I normally only eat lemons & drink Sprite when on my long runs, so seeing in lime green makes perfect sense. I may think of switching it up a bit. Cheers!

From Jake K on Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 09:40:32 from 155.100.226.54

Thanks for posting this. Its something I need to read over a few times and really digest. Sometimes when Canova gives examples of what his 2:04 guys are doing, I can't really put it in context and apply it to myself (without thinking too much). When he talks about the 1:05 / 2:15 guy - I "get it". I think any tweaks I make this fall are going to be incorporating some more of his specific ideas. The concepts make a lot of sense to me.

"Really not that difficult" haha that put a smile on my face. Thanks Renato for trivializing that "little" task of running a 2:15 marathon!

From Jake K on Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 09:41:54 from 155.100.226.54

Oh and really good workout again today as well. Maybe a hair too fast on the first one - but you held it together well... and that kinda simulates racing anyways... first mile always tends to be a little quick then you lock into the right zone and hang on for dear life at the end!

From Bam on Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 10:12:54 from 89.204.229.9

allie, my pleasure and thanks for Sasha's link - I'll have a look when I get a chance. If I were to write the book, I'd have to give up my afternoon naps. Hmmmm.

Russ - do you really drink Sprite when you run or are you taking the hand out of me (winding me up)?

Jake - Thanks. You're right about the first effort. I was hanging on for 'dear life' from the middle of the second rep.

I thought you might enjoy the 1:05 -2:15 stuff! I have a spreadsheet with all the Canova sessions on if you want a copy. You just pop in you predicted marathon time and it gives you everything. It's jolly marvellous.

NB. If anybody else wants the spreadsheet, give me a shout and I'll send it to you.

From Bret on Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 10:16:40 from 96.228.167.228

Bam - really nice job in the session - I would be quite pleased with it as well. Good consistency and excellent progress in your overall training.

Canova is not the easiest read - (of course Lydiard is vague at best sometimes too) -- Like Jake, I have a bit of a time trying to relate to my own context since I am not a 2:04 marathoner. :)

I see the idea of depleting the glycogen stores and training the body to work off of fats in the latter part of the race. A lot of what I have read suggests getting the body to work off of a fat and glycogen mix for the whole of the race. Is that the distinction with Canova?

From Jake K on Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 10:17:30 from 155.100.226.54

Yessss I would like that. I can't think in kilometers, other than 3:00/km = 30:00 10K

jake dot krong at gmail dot com

From Bam on Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 10:24:02 from 89.204.229.9

Jake, //the magic of this spreadsheet it that it converts km's to miles. Told you it was jolly marvellous. I'm just going shopping and I'll send it over later.

Bret, I'll get back to you when I get back from doing the weekly shop.

Canova's tough because of his English and really you need to read all of his stuff. Again, if you want the whole package, it's very good and does make sense, I'll send it to you. Gotta run chaps, the wife's giving out to me.

From Russ on Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 10:50:57 from 74.114.3.253

Yes, Bam, just taking the Mickey with my Sprite comment. Had to fit lemon yellow in somehow. And now I look like a dolt as you've changed the font on me. I think I'll go drown my sorrows with a fresh lemon-lime Sprite.

From allie on Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 10:57:21 from 174.23.155.117

i'll vouch for you, russ. i also read it when it was lemon lime. those were the days...

From Bam on Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 16:44:04 from 213.191.249.212

Bret - the Canova philosophy is hard work when you take bits out - like I've done. But the point is, if you're doing intervals and sharp work towards the end of your marathon training you're teaching the body to raid and utilise your glycogen stores thus bringing the wall into play earlier than if you were to train the body to conserve glycogen at marathon pace. The Daniels and Lydiard methods make this mistake and so do the methods of many more coaches; it's costing runners anything from 3-10 mins and destroying months, if not years of hard work. And then what happens is that the runners are BAMboozled as to why they didn't hit their goals.

How you teach your body to conserve glycogen is all part of 'The Bam Method'. Canova's on the right track but he hasn't mastered it yet. But I have...And here's the massive irony: It came to me through studying Lydiard and not Canova. All will be revealed Grasshopper...

From Jake K on Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 20:39:56 from 97.126.131.66

Bam - Andrea and I are sitting out on the porch discussing your comments. You are giving us ome great conversation points. I like where your thought process is going with this. We just decided that if I apply some of these ideas, I'll be a 2:15 guy when I line up at the trials in a few years.

From Bam on Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 09:37:44 from 89.204.233.21

Jake, I have no doubt that you'll be a sub 2:15 guy when you line up at the trials. A sub 2:15 would, pretty much, give you automatic selection in Ireland. 2:15 is the set standard; only one runner managed it for the 2012 Olympics - shocking.

You are developing the necessary base to attack the training in a way that will bring you on even more than you realise.

There's a lot more to it than that spreadsheet. Although, if you were to bang out some of those sessions, I'm sure you'd improve.

Be careful of the Canova article in Running Times - it's misleading and the schedule is miles off the mark. They've only flirted with Canova and it's rather disappointing that they show such ignorance for such a good magazine.

And all of that said, Canova still, imo, hasn't got it bang-on. Although he does seem to be getting there, more recently: his lactate clearance sessions, his extended runs @95% of mp, and a couple of his other special block sessions.

But you have to ask yourself, what's his motivation? Does he really care about his athletes or does he care about his reputation? If the answer to this question were the right answer, Canova would have the marathon sussed and his reputation and legacy would take care of themselves. Greed and power and ego are destructive. Humility and grace and irony tinged with a good dollop of ice cream are the stuff of champs.

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