Breaking the Wall

Sasha - how much is the route you run every morning actually part of the Provo Marathon course? I know I ran the marathon a couple weeks ago, but I don't remember how much of what you run every morning is on the course.

What I found about running the course is you really need to practice on your turning speed. Next year I plan to run some courses in training that have a lot of turns so your pace isn't broken up so much. Now a 2:40 isn't bad to what I thought my fitness level was at. But I can see adjustments to make to get better at running the course.

If you won't have ran in your five fingers what do you think you could have done on this course, time wise? I really thought you were going to tear this course apart.

Kory - I enter the course 0.46 miles into my run at around 16.25 and follow it to about 19.8. Same on the way back.

from about 17.2 (the bridge with a pump) to about 19.3 (last gate on the trail, start of the parking lot) is the course of my 5 mile tempo, also the course of the Fast Running Blog 5 Miler.

I run that 5 Miler all the time, and for some odd reason it is slow. My PR on it is 26:48, and I did it trading quarters with Jeff the entire time. I have raced a flat 10 K working with Steve the entire time in 32:59 while having a comparable level of fitness, or possibly less since the fastest I could go in the 5 mile tempo around that time was 27:16. So 5 miles at 5:21 average vs 10 K at 5:18. You can say it is a race vs. time trial, but I do not buy it. I did not taper for either, and I when I raced Steve it was essentially a time trial comparable to running with Jeff. BJ and Alexander Thomas were gone, and Adam was too far behind to be a threat.

I do have a few ideas why it is slow, but not 100% sure. It is on the bank of a river, and banks tend to be uneven. The tree cover makes it hard to see the undulations, so you think it is flatter than it really is. Either that or SLC Track Club has a miscalibrated wheel, I certainly hope not.

Hard to tell how much I lost because of Five Fingers. I think I lost something because I am still not used to running in them. Jeff thinks about 2 minutes. He might be right.

Note that next year the Utah Valley Marathon course could very well be different.

Interesting, what I found that really broke my pace was going down the tunnels and then coming up again at various times. Then you would turn on some of them. I really don't think I was ready for that or expected it. I could see how it could break a tempo pace with not a consist stretch of road.

Also with the turning and twisting I would assume it would be more difficult with the less cushioning you had to deal with. Make a point tomorrow when your turning on the course in the five fingers to diagnose how it feels with less cushioning vs shoes.

Your right about being uneven it did feel that way. It felt like a incline at times, but all the turn too could have made that an illusion.

Kory - I do not feel anything particularly special aside from a minor burn when turning, but I am sure it adds up over 26 miles.

A bigger problem, though, would be excessive right foot rotation - this gave me a bloody blister near the big toe.

Now the blister could have altered your stride during the race and slowed you down. Also causing you to be more dominant on the other leg while running.

I don't know just my thoughts. I was predicting you to be closer to a 2:30.

Not on that course, and not with this level of fitness. I was expecting around 2:33. However, Top of Utah will be interesting (I am sitting out DesNews, do not feel ready for it).

Sasha - you have the ability to do well in Des News, but if you don't feel it than it must be from God. Your an amazing runner and experimenter on your feet. I've noticed you sort have cut back your training this year. If you've noticed most of the elite runner's on the blog have cutback from last year (well it seems the one's on the relay team, a lot of injuries).

Curious, why didn't you run the marathons in SLC and Ogden this year?

Sasha, I have noticed the same thing with your cutback. Do you have some naggy injuries? Also, I signed up for DesNews. The problem, several people suggested I don't run it. I have never ran it and do not know the course. I have been told it beats the tar out of you. With my past history of stress fracture, maybe best to sit it out.

Mike Warren - The steep downhill is what can get you if you start out too fast. I've ran it once and it didn't beat me up. In fact it was the first course I qualified for Boston on. You just have to stay patient on the downhill and save some for the second half of the course.

Sasha- just wanted to say Thank You for your advice on my 'cleanse'. You are one smart whipper-snapper!!!!

I am only doing it for 3 days and plan to really focus on healthy eating afterwards.

Thanks again for your comments!

Kory, Mike:

No injuries. Extra miles means time away from the family or work. I gave 120 week long enough of a try and only saw gradually degrading performance in all distances. Even if I could make it work with time, the benefits are going to be marginal. I do not really care to run mega miles to run a marathon one minute faster.

I am already hitting world-class marathon to 5 K ratios, which indicates failure to improve from increased mileage should not be a surprise. To make a substantial improvement I need a Quality X breakthrough. As I mentioned numerous times, there is no Quality X improvement science, this is an uncharted territory. So I am trying various odd things such as running in Five Fingers and explosive sprints.

Regarding DesNews - I decided if I do not feel safe running a race in Five Fingers I will not run it at all until I feel confident that my form experienced permanent positive corrections. I do not feel confident running down 8% grade for 3 miles, and then 23 more with some serious decent involved in Five Fingers.

SLC - was not fit to run the marathon due to the ear infection in February. Ogden - was not fit to run the marathon when I made the decision. However, if I could have changed the day of the race, I still would have stayed with the half to save the legs for Utah Valley. I'd much rather use my legs to give a fast time to the race director that cares to have a fast time.

It will be interesting to see if running fewer marathons this year results in better performance in the fall. Are you doing TOU and SGM?

I am thinking TOU seriously, as seriously as you can in Five Fingers that is, SGM to keep Jeff company until I die, then hang on to stay in top 10 so I can come back next year.

Great point Jon. I always wondered if Sasha would of hit the OTQ without running TOU before STG. I believe that was 2007? I have never met anyone that can run back to back to back marathons like Sasha. All world class times, but man seems like it had to take something out of you? Any thoughts on that Sasha?

Sasha - Great points. I fully agree. Why run a marathon just to run it. There's so many runners that just want to see how many they can run. I find it more of a benefit to see how fast you can run them when you feel you've reached a peak or high fitness level. Versus seeing how many medals you can pile in your closet.

I really hope the experiment your trying works because your an determined individual and deserve a breakthrough.

Also (on a side note). Thanks for getting me a comp entry into the Utah Valley Marathon. I don't feel I disappointed him with a 2:40 time.

Mike:

If I could run sub-2:22 in St. George fresh (I am not saying OTQ because with the new standard 2:22 in St. George is a far cry from OTQ), I would have run at least 2:26 in TOU fresh. I did not. In a way, I am glad that the St. George loophole got closed, and that the standard is now 2:19. Let's face it, 2:22 even on a flat course is no world-class. In fact, 2:19 is not either. 2:22 in St. George is definitely not world-class. A great time for a local runner, maybe good enough to make top 100 in the nation, so maybe entry-level national class, but no world class by any means. World class for men has to begin at the very least above the women's world record (2:15). If you have any claims towards being world class you should not be getting chicked.

Not a pleasant reality for somebody who runs 15 miles a day for years and cannot even run 2:22 in St. George, but nevertheless a reality that needs to be faced. The cheerleader fairy tale says if you just believe it and work hard you can do it. Heck, no. You need Quality X to be world-class, and it is just as about as difficult to improve Quality X as it is to make a pig fly without wings, a propeller or a jet engine. You have to invent some kind of pig anti-gravity. I am not saying impossible, but very very difficult, takes a lot of faith. And that faith will not come until you at the very least appreciate what kind of faith it takes, not something that can happen until you've tried hard, hit that limit hard, and are fully aware of it.

Ok, I will agree with you on the World class classification. You have worked your tail end off trying to get there. So a simple question. You sound like you have I won't say given-up, but have serious doubts you can reach that level. With that said is running for fun enough for you? After all, you have won several races, set numerous PR's, possibly ran to your max potential?

If you have reached your max, you should be very proud. Even though I don't always agree with you. I must say, you have helped me and countless others reach or attempt to reach there max. So in the end, in my humble opinion thats worth more than reaching the OTQ. You never know, one day Pigs may fly.

If I just wanted to run for fun I would jog seven miles a day and never race. No, I have not given up. I just know better than get excited about pursuing known dead ends.