Strength for today and bright hope for tomorrow

Good job on these, Paul. Do you do mile repeats at faster paces with more rest, or do you think the LT and 1/4 mile rest is the better workout for a marathoner? In college we did more of a 10K goal pace, 800m rest, workout, but that is 10K training.

The Competitive Runner's Handbook has 3 mile repeat workouts in their 16 week "sample" training schedule for "local champions"--admittedly not as good as you 2:49 marathon for men, 3:05 for women--but that's the most elite schedule they provide). These three mile repeat workouts have a pace range of faster than 5K to 10K at the slowest, so all faster than LT. Thanks!

Michelle - First off, this workout was prescribed by my coach, so he would have a better answer!

But even if I was making my own workouts, I wouldn't give myself more than 400m recovery for any sort of intervals. LT is the slowest pace I'll do mile repeats at, and the slower the pace generally the shorter the recovery should be. That insures you stay in the "LT" zone for a larger percentage of the workout. In fact, I think 200m (1:00) rest can is good for a lot of LT intervals.

I'll do mile repeats at CV pace (roughly 12K pace) or up to 10K pace usually only during tapers. I rarely run any type of interval faster than 10K pace, aside from 200m strides. But even at these faster paces, I think more than 400m rest is too much.

I personally don't see any need for a marathon specialist to do intervals any faster than 10K pace. Usually CV pace is the fastest I go for anything. CV is a great pace, because it simultaneously developed LT and V02Max, so you kill two birds with one stone. I think marathon pace and sub-marathon pace tempos will give a marathoner the best return on investment. If I had to choose between long tempos vs. intervals, I'd pick the tempos.

Paul, interesting read on your answer to MichelleL. I have a little different problem being an older runner. Some weeks I can handle only one harder workout and I do want to get the most bang for the buck (speed and speed endurance?) If I understand your answer, CV workout preferred over tempo in my case? Also, I am in a base building phase right now trying to build to 70 miles consistenly per week. Your opinion would be appreciated.

Brent - my take is that you should always choose the slower pace and longer distance when you are forced to choose. Anaerobic training should go into the bag only after the aerobic training potential is close to being exhausted.

Regarding age - it is a popular belief that as you get older you lose your speed more than you lose your endurance. However, I wonder if it is the case.

Check out

http://www.usatf.org/statistics/records/masters_outdoorTF.asp

Payton Jordan was a 10.3 100 m sprinter in his youth. By the age of 61 he slowed down to 11.8, or approximately 24 seconds per mile. The American record in 10,000 meters in that age division is held by Clive Davies, and is only 35:19.8, or slower than 5:40 mile pace. I am not sure how fast he was when he was younger, but probably he could do at least 5:00 pace for a 10 K off the same training. At least there were many masters runners who could have run a sub-30:00 10 K that do not hold that record, and therefore were slower than him at that age.

Paul, great stuff - I learn a lot by looking at your workouts and then reading why you do them. I need to get more technical on my training, but it seems most books and articles don't point me in the right direction (Michelle's book as an example); so do you have any recommendations on things I should read to get a little better direction in my workouts?

Brent - I agree with Sasha in that if you have to choose, endurance is more important that speed. I think one can become remarkably fit by doing slower tempos, what I've been calling "tinman tempos". I would describe it as "brisk" running. You can do it several times/week, and recovery quickly.

A lot of people can handle just one hard workout per week. Try this: alternate weeks doing long tempos and CV intervals. Do these Big Workouts on Tuesday or Wednesday. Then do a long run on Saturday or Sunday that you treat as a progression run (start out slow and work your way up to marathon pace). Everything else should be easy; maybe throw in 6x100m strides during some of the easy runs for form. This will give you two fairly high quality (but not overwhelming) workouts, and plenty of recovery time. Doing CV every other week should provide enough stimulus to keep those systems growing, but in the meantime you will be developing endurance with your tempos and long runs.

Regarding your 70mpw base, it looks like you are already there. Try incorporating the workout ideas above in distributing the mileage to optimize both growth and recovery. For example:

Sunday: 8 miles very easy

Monday: 8 miles easy, 6x100m strides

Tuesday: 13 miles total with 6 miles of tempo OR 13 miles total with 6x1000m @ CV + 2 miles of tempo afterward

Wednesday: 7 miles easy

Thursday: 10 miles easy; 6x100m strides

Friday 8 miles easy

Saturday: 16 mile progression run. Start at easy pace and finish at marathon pace.

Total: 70 miles

This is just an example, and everything can be switched however you want it, but the general point is to do more mileage on your workout days and treat the other days as recovery.

Dave - Just about everything I do is influenced by Tom "Tinman" Schwartz (especially now that he is coaching me). I would suggest reading anything he has written:

http://therunzone.com/index1.php

Also, good stuff by Tinman on this message board:

http://therunzone.com/VB/forumdisplay.php?f=3

As far as "classic" reads go, I think the best, most comprehensive book out there is "The Lore of Running" by Tim Noakes. Read this if you can read nothing else. Daniels' "Running Formula" one of the most influential books out there, and is a "must read" for coaches and people trying to train themselves. Pfitzinger's "Advanced Marathoning" is pretty good, but is similar to Daniels.