Chug-along-chica!

Lybi, do not drop your long run - you need to run long once a week to get ready for the half (and later for the full marathon). Running 6x6 is not as good as 5x5 +10. I would even say you can run 5x4 +10 if it would help save your energy for the long run. My opinion is that once a week, you have to build up to 12 miles in one continuous run (no breaking up in two) in order to advance your endurance for the half. If you are not functional the whole day after, maybe 10 miles is too long for you now, try 8. Or, run at night, then you can be useless at night while sleeping :) - except the heat won't let you run at night. I used to feel exhausted and not good for anything after 20 mile runs when training for marathons, so I know the feeling. My husband used to complain that we can't do anything on that day because I was wiped out.

I really think that part of the problem with your long run is not eating anything before, and no carbs during your run. I think you should try once more, but this time, you need to eat something beforehand, and I think you should take gatorade and a gel halfway through. I remember you telling me that you felt crusty all over - I think your problems have been due to electrolyte loss and subsequent imbalance. Remember how you felt after I made you drink a whole cup of Gatorade? How you said you felt like bouncing around again? This is a big signal to me that you need more electrolytes during your run, as well as some quick carbs to keep you from bonking.

I run with friend that has hypo nutremia (something like that). She gets really sick,nauseated/exhausted unless she has a good dose of electrolite replacement before and after a long run (gatorade, gel blocks, etc). I'm not an consumer or advocate of sports drinks until I've run more than 10 miles on a hot day, and some of the gels make you a little sick to your stomach if you use them during the run. But hydration and potassium/electrolite replacement is essential-- especially in the heat. I'd cut back the long runs by a few miles if you have to, but don't cut them out if you're working toward endurance/distance. I'm working up to 6x6 to see if that helps my long runs not be so hard. Once I've got 6x6 under my belt, I'll get back to you. In the meantime-- DRINK!!

All I can say is that I understand. I never did figure out how to do a long run and EVERYTHING. I just stick to my consistent mileage and race the long runs.

Lybi, I agree that the long run is important. In addition to the carb/electrolyte replacement, make sure you are getting enough sleep on Friday night (I assume you get up earlier on Saturday to get in your long run). When I get over 10 miles, I take a gel every 45 minutes to an hour and drink gatorade on the canal whenever I find it. You might need to experiment to fine a gel that you like and that agrees with your stomach. I like Gu. Good luck!

What is this whole big deal about a long run? Is the meal you eat on Sunday the most important meal of the week? Is the Thanksgiving dinner the most important meal of the year? Is there a meal during the week, the month, or the whole year that is that much more important than any other meal?

Do we have any evidence for long runs vs weekly mileage? I do not know of anything sufficiently reliable, and on the other hand I've seen plenty of cases where runners did very well with sporadic or non-existent long runs in races that exceeded their training distances by quite a bit. Just about every runner on the blog that upped the weekly mileage and did nothing or cut down his long run ran a huge PR. I do not know of a case where a runner cut his weekly mileage, upped his long run, and did better. In fact, a typical bad marathon crash case runner always does his long run, but neglects his weekly mileage often taking a day of rest to be fresh for his long run.

Here are some examples that I am very familiar with of people doing a lot better than you would think they should without long runs:

* Sarah - 4 miles a day 5 days a week, sometimes 6 on Saturday. Completed a half marathon running strong in the last 5 K (8:30 pace, which is fast for her). The official time was 2:08, but she lost 5 minutes on a VPB.

* myself - 1:17:40 at the age of 17. Training - 40 miles a week, over between 5 and 7 days, longest run prior to the race 12.5. I did run 10 miles fairly frequently, though if you can call that a long run. Average pace was a bit under 6:00, but I was maintaining 6:10s at the end.

I think for little kids that run 2 miles a day a 10 K is as good as a half marathon for an adult.

* Benjamin, age 9 - 45:36 10 K - training - 2 miles a day 6 days a week, no long runs. Last mile was 7:36, average pace 7:21.

* Jenny, age 7 - 53:06 10 K, average pace 8:29, last mile 8:03. This was her first 10 K, so she sandbagged a bit, that's why the last mile was so screaming fast. Training - 1.5 miles a day 6 days a week. No long runs.

Long run is helpful, but is extremely overrated in running publications.

I know I am raising a lot of eyebrows. If you are questioning this, I dare you prove me wrong. Try it. Race an all out half. Then run your current mileage evenly spread over 6 days without skipping for 4 months, then race a half on the same or comparable course and see what happens. My prediction is 30% will run faster, with the rest being no more than 2 minutes of the time they got four months before.

Wow, that is a long comment, Sasha--especially considering we are not even arguing about diet.

Well, you convinced me. (It is easy to convince me of something I want to believe, isn't it?) I will be a guinea pig. No long runs! Just upping the ol' weekly mileage. Such a sacrifice I make in the name of science...

I came back to this disussion after I read Sasha's comments. I'm doing the same thing as you are Lybi (upping week-day mileage and shortening long saturday runs). Except for the last two days, I've decided to taper a bit for a 10 miler I'm doing on Saturday--But my goal is to go from 4-6 a day to 8 a day. I'm very interested to see how upping the weekly mileage works for you. (I'd like to believe what Sasha says here, and I'd like to think it would make me a better runner overall). I still enjoy long runs for the sake of being "out" for a few hours on Saturday mornings. But am willing to up the weekly mileage/reduce Saturday mileage just to see what it does. Keep posting on the subject once you have some results/feedback in the weeks to come. I'll do the same and we can see if it's true! Good luck!