I think you'll have a great time and do very well. Have you got a specific race strategy?

With all you guys running Ogden next week, I'm really going to feel like I'm missing the party!

I'm sure you'll do great next week. I'm glad you're feeling good today.

Thanks Snoqualmie. My main strategy is to heave without projectile at the finish line.

Carolyn - Thanks, and I'm sure you'll do great as well.

A noble goal.

Good luck with your race. Its good you are feeling better. Be careful about falling into the mileage trap. Increasing your training volume will no doubt make you faster if done right, but there is a relative component to it also--70 miles per week at 9 min/mi for a 3:30 marathoner is just as stressful as 90 miles per week at 7 min/mi for a 2:37 marathoner--stress is determined by time at relative effort rather than distance.

Phoenix - thanks. Regarding the mileage trap, are you saying it's pointless to increase mileage until I can increase my pace enough to run the extra miles in about the same amount of time it takes to run my current mileage?

Ah, say it ain't so! As a frustrated mileage junkie (I want more, more MORE but I can't get by on less sleep), I like to think that I could increase well beyond my current level if I followed the hard/easy rule very faithfully. (And had more time, of course.)

Bonnie recently commented that she went up in mileage (50s to 80s) by adding time to her running schedule. I specifically asked her whether she did it by speeding up or by adding time.

Not to denigrate any approach that has worked for you, Phoenix. The stress factor is a point well taken. I'm sure JD will benefit from having all our points of view. :)

It's hard not to be greedy when it comes to this blog. There's so much valuable information from just reading other blogs and the discussion forum. I hold back asking for advice because I don't want to put anyone on the spot, or seem presumptuous. This is silly of me, I know. Anyway, I am grateful beyond words whenever anyone takes the time to share some of their experience/wisdom/advice with me.

Also, I need to change my blog to notify me by e-mail when I get messages. I was looking back on my old posts and found several messages that I've missed over the months.

No, not all. My bad for the hasty post. When you initially add mileage you will have to slow down. This is fine and good. The problem comes when someone settles on a magic mileage number, especially when comparing to others.

I think it is safe to say that the majority of the higher mileage runners (on this board and other places) are fast runners (partially causally related, but thats another discussion).

Anyway, one may see that 6 min/mile marathoner (2:37) X, who trains at 7 min per mile, runs 70 miles per week. Our observer may then decide that they to are going to run 70 miles per week. However, the observer is a 3:30 marathoner and trains at 9 min/mile, which is about the same relative intensity as 7 min/mi are for Mr. 2:37. ***Because of the time spent training at the same relative intensity, the training stress of a 70 mile week for Mr. 3:30 is the same as that for a 90 mile week by Mr. 2:37 (which is the same as 103 mi/week for someone who trains at 6:18/mi).***

So what I'm saying overall, is that at 70 miles per week, your relative training load is pretty high. Its natural to be tired. The mileage trap is thinking you can't back down without losing your gains and thinking that more miles all the time = faster performances. Maintaining a respectable training volume is critical to running your best, but it is far from that simple.

Increasing mileage is one way, and often an effective one, to improve. But its simplistic to think that is all there is too it. In a way, its the easy way out. You can do it without thinking and without being disciplined, just run a little longer, log a bigger number, and pat ourselves on the back because of it.

I think 99% of the people on this board would see improvement if they utilized speedwork more. Not the anaerobic gut-busting sprints around tracks, not killer 800s and super hard mile repeats (these have there place for some) but aerobic speed training. Short intervals with short recoveries.

A couple of examples for track workouts: 12 x 400 at honest 10k race pace with a 100 meter, 40 second jog recovery; 16 x 200 at honest 3k race pace with a 100 meter, 40 second jog recovery. Workouts like hese do wonders for most peoples fitness level. (I'm headed back to these as soon as I get over my achilles injury. They've been very, very effective more me and many I've coached).

Unless you are a genetic outlier with a super high percentage of slow twitch fibers (these people usually manifest themselves because they are usually gifted endurance athletes), you MUST do speedwork to come anywhere near your potential. People hear this and then fall into the speed work trap (which can be more devastating than the mileage trap): more faster harder = short term improvement then injury.

Its natural that we think dualistically. There is an in between, which is sustainable. Workouts like the above are sustainable, fairly aerobic, but will train fast fibers that can be used in distance races once trained. The paradox is that these fibers won't be trained with base and threshold work.

Here is a link to a dialogue to between two master coaches who understand this principle well. It is one of the single, best pieces on training I have ever come across (and I did PhD and postdoctoral training in two of the best exercise physiology/biochemistry labs in the country). Its really great. I would suggest reading it through couple of times. This stuff is worth Gold.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=2375989&thread=2375989

Thanks alot for the clarification Phoenix. I hope my base building is going the right direction. I feel I've been very cautious and conservative, running easy paces during higher mileage weeks and mixing in a lower mileage week every 2-4 weeks. I've been hesitant to do much speedwork, but have had some good workouts, based purely on how I'm feeling on any given day as oppossed to a pre-determined plan. After the half marathon on the 16th of this month. I'll begin building up mileage again, slowly, and may try to do some more structured workouts during the Summer months. Thanks for your input, and taking the time to share this information with me. I've read through most of the dialogue you provided, really good reading. I'll refer to it often as I train for this Fall's marathon.

Glad to hear your achilles is on the mend!

Wow, that is super interesting, Phoenix. So for a 10:30 average pace gal like me, 55 mpw is relatively macho going by your comments? As I mentioned on my blog a while back, I feel like I run way more than most female runners my age, about 10-12 hours per week. But I do not finish in a corresponding category. (Of course there are lots of other factors: late start in running in life, age, genetics, lack of athletic background, etc.)

I am also fascinated by the "aerobic speed workouts" that you described. There are so many speed workouts described in books and magazines. I suppose the trick for those of us coaching ourselves is to learn what it is that will help us improve the most at our chosen distance. How does one know? I tend to be pretty fickle about whose advice I follow. Probably not good. Then I end up patching together a program that I hope will help me get faster but never quite sure. So getting back to those workouts, their purpose is to strengthen and train fast twitch fibers? Not VO2? Knowing the purpose of a workout seems like my only hope of being a good self-coach and picking the workouts that will help me most, among the dozens (hundreds?) that seem to be out there.

Sorry if I'm hijacking your comments, JD. You can have my blog anytime. :)

Please make yourself at home on my blog anytime Snoqualmie. I only wish I had some lemonade or tea to offer you while you're here. :-)

Sno,

Yes, running 10-12 hours a week is awesome by any standards. The primary purpose of the aerobic speed workouts is to condition your FT fibers. They will also improve your running economy an your LT. The more intense versions (30 seconds fast, 30 slower) will also improve your VO2max.

***The Phoenix unifying theory of training states that the end goal of any and all training programs is to maximize functional muscle mass.*** No matter how the training is designed, what jargon is used to describe it, what secret workouts are included, this is in the end what is really happening.

For someone spending as much time running as you are, any substantial gains you making in fitness will almost certainly come from adding more intense workouts to your training program. Just be careful. Always run relaxed and without unnecessary tension.

The key is to be systematic about it. Add them slowly and in pieces to avoid injury. Once you've built up to the full workouts (by your definition), stick with them for 6 weeks, which is about how long it should take to know if they are going to be effective for you. For most, they will help a lot. I'm happy to give my opinion if you want someone to bounce ideas off of as you plan your training.