The Qwer Old Fella's Marathon Method

May 06, 2024

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Location:

Tralee,Ireland

Member Since:

Oct 01, 2011

Gender:

Male

Goal Type:

Other

Running Accomplishments:

I've never worn compression socks.

Short-Term Running Goals:

To do a race.

Long-Term Running Goals:

1. Break the world record for the marathon in the 50+ age group, when I'm 50 in 2015.

2. Never wear compression socks.

 

Personal:

Married with two girls (6 and 10).

The Qwer Old Fella's Marathon Method is a four year experiment.

The first year (2012) was about getting back into running, staying off the smokes and booze, while sticking to a healthy eating plan and shedding mountains of lard. All boxes ticked.

Year two (2013 - age: 48) Injured Jan through March. Build back up and work on my 5k speed. Goal 15:45.

Year three (2014) will be about doing my first marathon in the spring. (Just for the experience and on a tough course - maybe Tralee; goal time, 2:30ish.) Then begins the prep work for Berlin 2015

Year four (2015) is all about breaking the world record for the marathon in the 50+ age group - it's only 2:19 :).

The above might sound nuts; it is, but then I'm nuts. Please do not copy any of the training I do: if you do, you are likely to end up running like me - not a good idea.

The idea is to have a laugh along the way. If I fail, I don't know what I'll do - my whole belief system will crumble and I suspect that this little rock might just stop spinning for a couple of seconds. Jakers, I better not fail for all our sakes. That's some burden, even for SuperBam.

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Miles:This week: 0.00 Month: 0.00 Year: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
11.000.000.002.0013.00

9:30 a.m. 7 miles, including Power of Threes by two and Crazy Cubans by two. Lads, what a workout. I intended to do three sets of each but opted for two sets as it was my first go and form was the priority. That said, my form was embarrassing.

What a killer and yet great fun. This is as hard, in terms of effort, as a session of mile repeats but the variety makes it so much fun –  the concentration levels have to remain high at all times. I’ll explain the session tomorrow (I want to look at ageing today) but the bottom line of the session was that it exposed many weakness. I was pants. But that’s why I’m excited. If I’m running 5:20-5:26 pace for 5k off one year’s training with only a handful of workouts and my strength and power and coordination are all appalling, then there’s massive room for improvement.

Sometime back, there was an article in Athletics Weekly – UK based running magazine and a very good one at that – entitled ‘Growing old gracefully’, by Roy Stevenson (he has a master’s degree in exercise physiology and coaching from Ohio University and he teaches exercise science at Seattle University). Here are the summary points of his article:

System Effects of Ageing on Running Performance

Cardiovascular system - Heart becomes less efficient and works against increased resistance. A decrease of 8-10% per decade in the ability of the heart and lungs to supply oxygen to the muscles occurs with ageing. There’s a decline in maximal heart rate, maximal cardiac output, and leg blood flow to exercising muscles of 10-15%. (You wouldn’t believe my MHR – most teenagers would die to have a MHR like mine.)

Aerobic capacity – Moderate decline in maximal heart rate and stroke volume. Oxidative enzyme activity decreases by 10-15% in older runners.

Lactate threshold - May actually increase with age when expressed as a percentage of VO2 max.

Respiratory system – Less efficient, primarily due to stiffening and loss of elasticity of lung tissue and chest wall. Decreased ability to clear air passages. Maximum breathing capacity decreases by about 60% between ages 30 and 80. Vital capacity and forced expiratory volume decreases linearly with age, starting between ages 20-30.

Muscular System – Progressive loss of muscle tissue starting at age 40. Rate of muscle protein synthesis is reduced. Changes in muscle fibre composition: decrease in number and size of type-ll muscle fibres of 10% after age 50 and reduction in size of type-I muscle fibres – therefore decreased strength and endurance.

Running economy – Stays approximately the same, but we have to run with faster leg turnover to maintain our racing pace because of shorter stride length.

Body composition – (pay attention Jake) Muscle tissue declines, fat percentage increases, 8-12% decrease in basal metabolic rate.

Flexibility – Decreases with age. Connective tissues between muscles and bones become more rigid with ageing – thus our stride length decreases.

Caveat – The above does not apply to Bam. Bam is great. Bam will prove that the above is pants. He’ll do it through some fancy-dancy monikersJ

To be continued…

6:00 p.m. 6 miles easy. Legs felt better than I thought they would. Tomorrow I've got 8 miles, including 10 Benjamin Buttons lined up for the morning and an easy 6 miles in the evening. Should be feeling a tad younger by tomorrow night...

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00Weight: 131.00
Comments
From Bret on Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 07:12:40 from 64.128.133.66

Good information - now then - how does one (mere mortals of course, not Bam) reverse or compensate for those ageing constants - will be interested to read the continuation...And please tell more of the Crazy Cuban mile repeats that caused them to be fun!

From Jake K on Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 09:12:33 from 155.100.226.191

Great info. I love the caveat - its how I think about a lot of stuff... "here's what science tells us... and here's why it DOESN'T APPLY TO ME" :-)

From Rachelle on Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 12:47:49 from 67.199.182.207

Very interesting stuff Bam! I've always heard that runners peak in there early 30s. Do you think this is just a myth or is there logic to it? I for one like the idea of my lactate threshold improving. :)

From Bam on Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 13:56:53 from 89.204.247.133

Bret - I'll explain the Crazy Cubans tomorrow, along the Power of Threes. I think most of the stuff on the maturing runner is rubbish. Although as we both know certain things are true - recovery's slower etc.

But I think we can combat most of the stuff - that's what I intend to do anyway. I think you also have to question the research: as in, who did they test and over what timeline etc.

Things have changed and I think Masters running is in its infancy (Oh I like that). That reminds me, I'm doing 10 Benjamin Buttons tomorrow - now there's a workout to keep you young.

Jake - I thought you'd be like that too.

Rachelle - you cheeky little rapscallion with your marathon jests. I don't know when you're yanking my chain (jokin) - I'll take it you're serious.

I think distance runners do peak in their thirties and then the decline starts. But then, it depends when you start etc.

I think lactate threshold increases more to do with VO2 max decreasing. But again, how true that is up for debate.

I also believe that much of the ageing stuff will be revised - especially after the Bamster wrecks the world best for the marathon in the 50+ age group:)

From scottkeate on Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 14:58:21 from 216.49.181.254

Here! Here! I plan to join you on debunking some of the "scientific facts" you listed above. I choose to embrase your caveat :-) The above is "pants" for me too :-)

Great write up. I've loved this conversation about focusing on the shorter distances (speed/power) and building to the marathon. It's really got me thinking about my approach over the next few years. I'm currently 38. What would be really cool would be to run in the same 2016 Olympic Trials race with Jake :-) Even if that's a "B" standard entry.

From Bam on Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 15:31:57 from 89.204.247.133

Scott - If I were 38, from the US and running as well as you are, I'd aim for the Olympic Trials race.

I think you have two options: bang out miles and tempo runs and hope to grind out the necessary improvement. I think this way is taking a big risk. Imo, you'd improve, but not enough.

If, however, you were to stop and think about what you need to run sub 2:20, on a legit course, you would have to take a slightly longer term approach that furnishes you with the necessary qualities.

For me, you have to start with your 5k/10k time. You've gotta be at least tickling 30 dead for 10k, which means 14:30ish for 5k. But you keep one eye on the marathon, while you work on improving your 10k time. You keep the miles high but sensible. There's no point running further than two 8 milers on recovery days. You run your recovery runs slower so that your body is ready for the quality stuff.

You must include strength, power and economy sessions prior to improving your 10k time. Then you must maintain these qualities while developing your aerobic capacity and endurance - so that you can bang out 1:05ish for the half. Then you are ready for the marathon training proper.

It would take me ages to expound my ideas about marathon training, but I think you get the idea up to the point of marathon training. I also think if you adopted this approach you'd run a lot faster than 2:20 - more like 2:15.

From Fritz on Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 22:59:47 from 76.27.28.67

Great advice for us older folks. Meb won the trials at 36 so I shouldn't need to worry until I am 45. Plus I run about 1/3 the miles as Jake so my legs are fresher. :)

Where does the phrase "I was pants" come from?

From Bam on Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 06:31:13 from 89.204.161.34

I'll let you slug-out the leg freshness thing with Jake, as you scuttle up and down the hills of Utah in your running tights - I've no comment:) Apart from, be careful Fritz, Jake's carrying some extra pounds these days.

The "pants" thing is a saying we use to mean rubbish/no good. Eg the quarter back was pants tonight - everytime he made a pass, it ended up in the crowd.

From Jake K on Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 08:22:19 from 155.100.226.191

I'm basically running w/ a 40lb vest on these days :-)

I like the thoughts about progressing from the 10K on up. For me, the next big goals are 29:XX 10K and sub 65 for the half. When I can do that, then I'll really feel ready to attack the marathon at the level I know I'm capable of.

From Bam on Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 08:38:32 from 89.204.161.34

That's exactly what I would have prescribed for you, Jake. You've gotta improve your 10k time if you're going make the next breakthrough at the marathon, otherwise you'll stagnate around the 2:20 mark.

All those miles are safely tucked away, and even when you lower the miles and do the graft, you'll still be doing serious mileage.

Jake, Fritz, Scott - any other takers for the marathon at the US Olympic Trials - sorry Fritz but I've just nominated you.

From Jake K on Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 09:00:11 from 155.100.226.191

Completely agree - and ~2:20 would be a rough place to stagnate at. Close but no cigar.

From Fritz on Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 09:30:55 from 65.116.116.6

i am accepting of the nomination but have lots of work to do because my 15:50 5k PR won't quite cut it.

From Andrea on Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 09:33:51 from 72.37.171.52

I can't believe you left me out of the OTQ! You don't think I'm ever going to get better :(

From Jake K on Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 09:40:28 from 155.100.226.191

Fritz - your ability to only slow down 1% from 1/2 to marathon qualifies you :-)

Andrea - everyone who knows a lick about running knows that you are the most likely out of all of us, once you get healthy.

From scottkeate on Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 10:24:33 from 216.49.181.254

Bam, you've given me some real meat to chew on. It's just so much easier to lace up the shoes and slog out 10+ miles in the morning rather than doing a workout that makes you want to puke :-)

While it is intriguing to my egoic mind to have my name included with Jake, Fritz, and Andrea, they are all knocking on the door, I'm still dreaming about the door :-) A lot of running ahead.

From Bam on Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 15:21:25 from 213.191.243.147

Andrea, sorry. I was gonna do a ladies OT nomination thingy, but I need to find out who's who. I had you, allie, Rachelle, and NatK in mind, but I'm not familiar with the other lady runners, apart of course from Jason D:)

There are other male runners too. Off the top of my head there's Riley and Derek and Ben...

Scott, you've got the advantage over Jake and Fritz. They're stuck in the 2:20 mud, having a scrap over who's legs are fresher:) you're gonna come steamrolling over them with your hirsute pegs...

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