FRB Summer Running Camp

[Superfly]

Michelle- There are a ton of things to do in Torrey besides run. Lots of fun stuff in the mountains and at the National Park a mile away. Not to mention the great weather in July. As far as running, there will just be different groups going out and whichever you want to join would be great, definitely not based on age or gender. BTW, this is Mik'L

[Josse]

I think wifes are more up to coming along but our husbands think us runners are a bunch of crazies and mine doesn't want to come spend a week with you (no offense).  So I will have to see about coming my myself, but he didn't seem to excited about that either.

[adam]

Sasha, I'm going to have to disagree with some of your reasoning on altitude training, but I will agree with what you said about lowering the intensity and mileage IF you are not prepared adequately for the increase in altitude.

A short stint (less than a week) at a higher altitude will bring about as much improvement as adding a week of bowling to your workouts, BUT it if you are smart about the training it won't hurt much either. If anything, the mere psychological boost of being at a camp, with little distractions, and with other runners will be helpful to most people.

I did a review of altitude training studies this past fall, here's a table I included (it doesn't come out well on here):

LH & TH refers to living high and training high (all training and living is done within this altitude)
LH & TL refers to living high and training low (mixed training; most fast training done at lower elevations/sea level)
LH & TL supplemental refers to artificial means (table shows required evelation settings needed for response)

                    
       Comparison of Altitude Training Methods   
   
                     Required Elevation(s)     Duration at Elevation            Performance Increase*2
                       
LH & TH           Greater than 2500 m               > 4 weeks, with daily                                  No significant
                         or 8200 ft                continual hypoxic exposure                            improvement
                       
LH & TL                   2000-2500 m                > 4 weeks with daily hypoxic            Average 1% increase 1
                   or 6500-8200 ft                          exposure of 22 hrs                           or about 13.4 s,

LH & TL                    2500-3000 m                  > 4 weeks with daily hypoxic          Average 2% increase
Supplemental*1   or 8200-9800 ft                  exposure of 12-16 hrs       
                  
*1  (by artificial means, including altitude tents, hypoxic chambers)   
*2  (between 5000 m time trials before and after 4 weeks exposure in well-trained runners)   
Table 2

So really, for any positive or negative problems to occur, you would have to be up there for a while. A week isn't going to help or hurt much running wise unless you do something extremely out of the ordinary. Sorry to hijack this thread for a minute, but I don't want people getting scared to go to this camp. Just be smart.






These are sources used in the table.

WILBER, R., J. STRAY-GUNDERSEN, LEVINE, B.D. Effect of hypoxic “dose” on physiological responses and sea-level performance. Medicine & Science in Sports and Exercise, 39:1590-1599, 2007

WILBER, R. Application of altitude/hypoxic training by elite athletes. Medicine & Science in Sports and Exercise, 39:1610-1624, 2007
 
CHAPMAN, R., LEVINE, B, D.,  Altitude training for the marathon. Sports Medicine, 37:392-395, 2007 retrieved from http://web.ebscohost.com.erl.lib.byu.edu/ehost/results, 9/2007

[Jon Allen]

Altitude- I'm going with Clyde and Adam on this one.  I think the added rest, camaraderie, and focus on running will give enough energy/motivation to run good mileage.  And, especially for everyone already living in SLC, Provo, Logan, etc., an extra 2000 feet or so in elevation won't make any difference.  The STG people might notice a small difference, but not much.  In college we would routinely race 2000 ft+ above training altitude, with no/very minimal difference in times.

And for anyone like me who does a lot of summer runs in the mountains, anyways, I'll actually be coming down in altitude!  Heck, I'm planning to do a marathon at 8000 feet!  Maybe I'll do the Leadville 100 next year just for kicks, too.3

Paul and jtshad, I LOVED your spouse motivation stories...

[James Barnes]

Clyde, great idea and fun place.  I love that area down there and have been looking for a good excuse to return soon.  As Paul mentioned we have talked about putting together a similar camp for a while, but since you are taking charge we can just worry about getting there and having fun.  That week should work fine for us, so we'll plan on it.  I like the Altitude, social aspect, and area so I am looking forward to it.  Let me know if I can help in anyway.

[Marcie J.]

Josse I am running into the same problem with my hubby too.  I asked if he wanted to go and no offense to you all either but he doesnt exactly want to spend vacation time with all us runnners.Since this is a family friendly site I wont say his exact words:)  He said I could go if I wanted but we will see. We are so busy in the summer at work that it makes it hard to take alot time off and I already have time planned off to come up there a few times for races. So we will see. If you and MichelleL go up for the weekend I may come up too.

[Dustin Ence]

I really like the idea of a summer camp.  I've lived and trained a good portion of my life at or above 6500ft and felt like living at the higher altitude helped my running.  I'm not really concerned or should I say have a strong opinion either way on what a week vacationing up in the mountains is going to do to my overall fitness.  However, I am pretty certain that a week in July training up in Torrey is probably going to be a little more relaxing weather wise than a week of training in St. George.

Running while on vacation? I do disagree with Sasha on runners getting better while on vacation.  I see this camp as more of an opportunity to train with other dedicated runners and not really a vacation.  However, some might view it as a vacation (away from work, away from the house, and maybe other stresses).

Anyway, when I was in high school and later when I was coaching we would always take kids on a 3 day to week long summer camp up in the mountains.  Most of the kids had a great time, got excited about training and really came into the season with a better understanding of what we expected as coaches.

I remember reading a few years ago the book Train Hard Win Easy and it talked about some of the camps the Kenyans were doing together.  I think anytime you are around people that are successful, dedicated, and talented there are things you can learn.

I think the camp sounds like lots of fun, my only problem is I'm at scout camp the week that you are planning right now, so I'll be a no go this year.  But hey, I'm sure I'll get in plenty of running rounding up missing boy scouts.

Dustin: Hey Honey, they are putting together a running camp would you like to go?
Wifey: No, it is difficult enough living with one runner, why would I want to spend time with anymore.
Dustin: But it is Dave,Clyde, Steve, Mike, Wildbull and some of the northern guys.
Wifey: That is exactly my point.

[Sasha Pachev]

Clyde - I think it is time for a challenge. Let's do this. You go to the camp, I'll stay home and train. Then we'll race each other at DesNews in the marathon. To make it more scientific, we should race each other right before the camp as well. How about Provo Freedom Run 10 K?

[Paul Petersen]

One week of running doesn't make you a better runner anyway (or worse). Running (especially marathoning) is more about long-term trends, health habits, and training. If you go to this "camp", go for the camaraderie, inspiration, and relaxation. You won't get any faster from a week in Torrey, but you will probably come out a lot more motivated! Not to mention that part of Utah is absolutely beautiful. I look forward to having a "local" as a tour guide too. It will surely beat sitting inside in an office all week.

Let's not get wrapped up in pride and silly challenges.

[Christi]

This sounds fun! I'm going to talk to my non-running hubby.  I think he feels like Josse & Marcie's husbands do! If I came I would bring the family (hubby & 2 kids) maybe they could hike, etc, while I ran? We'd probably want a room too. I must confess I would mostly be there for social aspect since I only log about 25 miles a week on average.  I do want to run w/ Mik'L, Michelle & whoever else is there for some daily 5-6 milers.  Will chat w/ fam and get back to you!

[Sasha Pachev]

Paul - one week of running done right cannot make you faster, but one week of running done wrong can definitely make you slower. Which is why I think a camp like this should last no more than 3 days. It is more likely that you will do things wrong, better keep the damage to the minimum. And you will build friendships and get motivated in 3 days just as well. Not speak of the need to get time from work and other obligations that will be there to meet you in full force when you get back.

[Paul Petersen]

Paul - one week of running done right cannot make you faster, but one week of running done wrong can definitely make you slower. Which is why I think a camp like this should last no more than 3 days. It is more likely that you will do things wrong, better keep the damage to the minimum. And you will build friendships and get motivated in 3 days just as well. Not speak of the need to get time from work and other obligations that will be there to meet you in full force when you get back.

Fair enough. But hopefully there will be enough expertise at "camp" to not let anyone do anything stupid. Personally, I don't intend to do tempo runs or intervals every day. Nor would I expect to hit absurd mileage (although the three maps/day I would take would counteract mileage).

Frankly, some people just like to travel, like to spend money, and like to blow off work. I am one of those people, and "camp" is a good destination to do that. I don't think I need any other reason than that.

[Josse]

Frankly, some people just like to travel, like to spend money, and like to blow off work. I am one of those people, and "camp" is a good destination to do that. I don't think I need any other reason than that.

Amen!

[Ted Leblow]

I would love to do this if possible as well. Need to talk with the boss and see if we can squeeze this in. We have been wanting to do a family vacation down south at the parks anyway so this may work.

I really do not care if it helps or hurts my running for a short time and I highly doubt it will hurt anyones running. What matters more is it is a great opportunity to be around and train with other runners from the FRB. Sometimes running is or should be more than just trying to run fast times and crunching numbers; I truly appreciate the friends I have made over the years because of running more than the accomplishments themselves. I love this idea and think it would be awesome to spend time with fellow FRB members.

[Tyler]

Cool idea, I'm already excited about it. All those pictures make me miss summer.... (sigh)

I talked to my wife, and we'll could come on Thursday night.... so I expect to be there. I'm excited to meet the rest of you, the camp sounds like a blast!