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Author Topic: Feeling a little lost  (Read 5431 times)
seesuerun
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« on: March 22, 2009, 07:52:42 am »

I am feeling just a little lost in my training I want to make sure I am on the right path.

My goals: Ogden will be my first marathon to race and I hope to do between a 7:03-7:15 pace. By the end of the year I would like to do either TOU or St. George at a 6:57 pace. I also would like to take my 5k pace down from 19:50 to below 19:30 and even break 19:00 min by the end of the season around September.

My Current Plan: Because of this blog I have upped my miles to at least 8 miles a day and built more of a base than what I had, I eased off on the speed work til I strengthened my base and am ready to add it back into my training. I have a half marathon in two weeks and then I will do Ogden Marathon May 16th. I plan on continuing to increase my mileage to 10 miles Monday -Friday and inserting speedwork or tempo runs on Wednesdays with longer runs on Saturdays. My long runs are usually at an easy pace 7:45-7:50. Lately I have been doing 5k races on Saturdays instead I had planned on only one but got invloved in the others last minute for one reason or another.

My questions:After reading the thread below I am wondering if I should do some long runs at marathon pace instead of two separate days of speed and long runs. Also after my half marathon on April 4th I have 6 weeks to the marathon. My current training plan calls for my Saturday runs to be 16, 20,  16, 20, 8 then the marathon. Should I do the two 20s? Or should I again run shorter faster long runs?

Thanks for your input. Here is my blog just in case you have a hard time accessing it.
http://seesuerun.fastrunningblog.com/
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Jeff Linger
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2009, 11:26:06 am »

Sue,

I took a look at your blog. You said you're ready to start adding 'speedwork' back into your plan. Why? What is your immediate goal? It appears to be the marathon. There is no real reason to do speedwork for a marathon based on your base and goals. I don't know what you did prior to joining the blog ... but .... since joining you've done the following: September 08 - 40.2 miles, Oct. 08 - 83.3 miles, Nov 08 - 17 miles, Dec 08 - 0 miles, Jan 09 - 79.6 miles, Feb 09 - 198.5 miles, March 09 - 148 miles so far. Essentially, you've got 6 weeks of base in, except, during the last 3 weeks 1/3 of your miles are at marathon race pace or faster.  I don't know how many years you've been running and how consistently you've been training, but since September of 08 you really only have about 7-8 weeks of consistent training. I'm thinking that you've got a ton of speed and that you don't need to do any speedwork at all (tempo runs yes). It seems your goal is the May 16th marathon, which is 8 weeks away. If we take 3 weeks out of this for taper, that leaves you 5 weeks (6 weeks if you decide to cut your taper down to the minimum 2 weeks). You say your goals before then is to build your mileage up to 10/day for 5 days and do a long run on the weekend (your plan shows most miles for long runs in the 18-20 range). This puts you jumping from 48 mpw to 70 mpw with only 5 weeks to go. You went out yesterday and ran a 5k in which you placed 2nd overall, then you came home and decided that you needed to get 8 more miles in despite the fact that you have a cold because someone else on the blog ran 70? And then you began to race yourself on the treadmill to get the 8 in before an hour was up? What's going on girl? You're not at all compulsive or anything are you (LOL)?

Be careful Sue. You've got an insane amount of natural speed (it certainly is not a result of base). With so little time left before this marathon I wouldn't make any major mileage jumps. I think you should just do your 8/day with a long run on the weekend (maybe do 1/3 of it or so at tempo pace if you feel the need) and do Wed. Tempo runs. Unless I'm missing something, I'm just not sure you've got the sort of base you want to have to start hitting 5k races, tempo and speedwork, marathon pace long runs, and jumping to 70 mpw. (For more on what happens when you jump up in miles see my blog (http://dandy.fastrunningblog.com/) and take a look at what happened on March 29th 2008. Then follow things through over the next 3 months until I was able to start training again. Sometime in late January or early February I made the jump from 45 mile weeks to 65 mile weeks. No real gradual build-up, just a jump. I was hammering out the miles, running all kinds of tempo and speed stuff ... and the result was the need to stop running for over 6 weeks to allow my joint inflamation to heal (caused by over-use). After the Marathon is over, take some time off to rest up and then begin with a long-term mileage increase plan. I've been working on my base now since late June. I've only hit 1 week over 70 miles. I've had a number of weeks in the 60s. I feel that I'm just now getting to a place where I can comfortably handle 70 mile weeks week after week. But I won't do that until after the marathon. Even now I insert many weeks of backed off mileage so that I go into Boston rested. I remember training for St Louis last year, my legs were always so tired, almost heavy. But I was determined to keep slugging away. Hind sight is always 20/20.
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jtshad
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2009, 01:55:40 pm »

Sue, Jeff makes a lot of good points.  I don't see the need for you to try and get ready for your first marathon (a really fast goal pace!) and trying to improve your 5K at the same time. 

Based on you mileage, I wouldn't try to jump into long runs at marathon pace (that is not really what long training runs are for) but instead mix some in as your program indicates.  However, based on your mileage, 2 20 milers between April 4th and Ogden may be a bit much.  I would suggest something more like 17, 15, 20, 15, 8.   Also, make sure you are getting good base mileage in during the rest of the week so your Saturday run is not too much of your weekly total (minimum 30-35 miles for the 20M Saturday run). 

My quick two cents.
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seesuerun
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2009, 02:58:12 pm »

Thanks guys! LOL. Compulsive me? I do have to admit Jeff I think you are right. You make a good point on those 70 mile weeks. Although I am inspired by others running that amount I don't think I want to necessarily do that. I wasn't doing the math at all on that one and was mixing two training styles. I am relieved to chop out one of those 20s before the race it just seems better.

I am very impulsive and get comments from Michelle L and Sasha on my blog to be careful and not go all out for no reason Smiley So I have cooled off a little bit from what I started out doing in the beginning of my training this year.

I should have made it a little more clear that it will be my forth marathon but my first to "race" and not just run. My last marathon was Top of Utah in September of 2008 so although I wasn't tracking my miles with the fastrunningblog (I used another online tracking program but have since repented and returned) I have been running for some time. My first marathon I didn't train for I just ran (Sounds like me huh?) and the other two I trotted along because I really didn't think I was capable of actually racing a marathon.

Although the marathon is my main goal right now I want to hit a lower 5k speed before I get too old and loose my speed. I am 32 which I know is still young of course but the clock is ticking. Is it possible to do both at the same time a 5K and marathon? Or are the two just a bad mix?
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Jeff Linger
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2009, 03:42:13 pm »

Sue, a couple things. You certainly could do things like 2 or 3 5ks at 10k race pace with light jogging in between and call that a solid workout for the week (It could be a combined tempo/long run because I'd guess with warm up and cool down you'd get in at least 12 and upwards of 18. I really like a warm-up, 5k at 10k race pace followed by 3 x 1mile @ marathon race pace with 3-5 minutes rest between each repeat then about a 1/2 mile re-warm-up followed by a 2nd 5k at 10k race pace and then a cool down. If you want to be successful at the 5k you really need to do some 'speedwork' oriented workouts. The training is somewhat different for the 2 events. Certainly your 5k time can improve while you train for a marathon without training for a 5k.... As for getting old ... I'm 38. Last summer I ran a 15k in my home town and was 3 full minutes faster than I ran it as a Junior in High School. Over the last 2 years I've steadily brought my 5k time down without ever training for a 5k. I believe that when I'm 40 (1 more year of training) I'll be able to run a 5k at about the same pace I ran it when I was in high school... and just so you don't get the wrong impression, I was qualified for the state finals in cross-country my sophmore, junior and senior years. Don't worry about anything at 32 except inexperience.
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Sasha Pachev
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2009, 04:33:32 pm »

I agree with Jeff.  Keep building your base. Run a tempo during a long run. Do not race too many 5 Ks. Maybe one a month. Overall, do not worry and be happy.

Incidentally, your 5 K performance should improve at this point just from base.
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Michelle Lowry
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2009, 05:10:23 pm »

Sue, let me sum up your Saturday:  You slept in because you were sick and tired (  Grin ), then you raced, then you told your husband you need to rest and get well, then you jumped on the treadmill and did a progressive 8 mile workout.  Hmm.  I could write up some stuff but I guess I'll just say reread the prior posts.  Base is king.  Watch me, I'm going to follow that advice myself as I build my base.  Then you can raze me if I don't  Wink
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seesuerun
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2009, 05:36:20 pm »

Jeff, Jeff, Michelle and Sasha...Thanks you guys this really helps! I know it takes time to look at the blog and give people advice.
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