Projected 5k time?

[Mike Musso]

I'm a year out from High School and H.S. Track and am hoping I can still run a 5:00 flat. I've been training alot and yesterday I did 5x800m at 2:43, :44, :48, :44, :45 with an 800m jog back everytime as recovery I'm wondering what I may be able to run on May 22nd for a local 5k I'm doing. Low or mid 18's? I mean I know what it feels like and yesterday wasn't too bad at all, my best 5k during H.S. was 18:15 and I ran one at Rutgers in September '10 in 18:26 and I feel faster, could i break 18:00 if i train correctly in the next two weeks?? Anyone with suggestions, I can tell you my recent training or you can check out my blog that I jut started filling out today.

[Rob Murphy]

Sounds to me like you pretty much know the answer. Around 18 minutes would be my guess.

Quick tip.... when doing repeat 800s (a great workout for the 5k), try to keep the recovery ratio to 1-1. In other words, about 2:30 rest between intervals. An 800 meter jog recovery is more like 4 to 5 minutes and is too much recovery to get the training effect you need as you approach a goal race.

[Mike Musso]

Thanks Rob, should I keep the same ration for 400's? Because when I do short sprint repeats I usually run them with little to no recovery like a 2-1 or 3-1 (30 sec sprint, 10 second jog for 5-8 minutes). I would jut really love to break 18 minutes by the 22nd

[Rob Murphy]

Early on in a training cycle longer rests between intervals are fine. The goal then is to start building leg speed after coming off a period of base training. But as you approach a goal race your focus should be on speed-endurance and you want the mental and physical stresses of a hard workout to simulate racing - so shorter rests are key. When I have my runners do 400s at faster than race pace the recovery is usually a walk up to the top of the turn and a jog back to the start if we are on the track. I'd try to keep the recovery interval at a minute or so.

Allow yourself plenty of time to recover from these workouts before racing and If you are going to do 400 or 800 intervals the week of a big race, try to cut the volume in half.

[Joe Furse]

If you can still run a 5:00 mile, I would think you should be able to run significantly faster than an 18:00 5k.  You're running your conditioning workouts at 5:30 pace for nearly 3 miles of total work, so I don't see why you shouldn't be able to maintain something close to that for 5k.  There's not a whole lot you can do in 2 weeks, other than what Rob suggested, but after that if you still find you can't break 18:00 it's probably your endurance that needs work, so I'd bump the mileage.  Most high school coaches sacrifice mileage for speed, which works to a point for immediate results, but after a point you can only run so fast if you're not out there putting in the miles.  I don't know what kind of mileage you're running, but that's my two cents.

[Mike Musso]

Thanks I'm going to post what my time is when I run the race, but I've been running at least 5-7 miles a day and one day every other wek that I run 12+ miles so I hope that I can break it.

[Rob Murphy]

Mike, ditto what Joe said. I looked over your blog and I think you definitely need to get in at least one run per week in the 10 to 12 mile range.

[Mike Musso]

I need to post more from April from my calendar, my own computer has a virus so when it works without a bunch of error messages I have to transfer it.  I havent really had a a set of back to back days where I get more than 5-6 miles I usually go less miles after a 5+ mile day and do a 2-4 day also when I did do back to back 6 or 7 mile days I wouldn't really change the workout which I am changing so we'll see how this 5k goes. Under 18 is my goal.

[Joe Furse]

I was just looking at your blog in graph mode, and there are two big standouts to me (although from your last reply it sounds like you haven't added in all your miles or something): 

1) Mileage.  If you want to run a good high school 5k, you should be running a lot more than 10-15 miles per week. Even just slowly working up to 40 miles per week with a long run of 10-12 miles once a week will likely put you closer to the front of your average local 5k and will probably get you down near 17:00, assuming you are capable of a 5:00 mile.  If you can work up to 50 mpw, that's even better.

2) Pacing.  Slow down.  You don't need to constantly run at lactic threshold or VO2 Max to get where you want to be.  Even training for a 5k, most of your mileage should be easy.  You should be able to easily carry on a conversation.  Speed and/or conditioning workouts should be targeted and should not make up the bulk of one's training at your level.  Most of each of those columns on your graph ought to be blue.  You are doing a great job doing the RIGHT kind of speed/conditioning (400s, 800s, 1000s, etc are great for a 5k!), so definitely keep that up, but just do a little less of it.  If I were in your shoes, I would probably confine myself to two of those types of workouts per week, still do slow mileage on those days as a warmup and cooldown, and let everything else be slow and easy.  And when you do get speed work in, don't be afraid to push hard.  Push hard enough that it forces you to go easy on the other days.  If you are resting correctly between hard days, you will be able to have much higher quality speed days while still getting appropriate mileage.  If you really are itching to get your legs going all the time, do 4x100m strides or accelerations after your easy miles.  Or maybe a couple of relaxed 200s.  But nothing that will make you sore and tired for your hard days.  I know I was the same way as you in high school and for a couple of years after.  I was always wanting to go out and blow everyone off the track every day and impress the pretty girls (unfortunately I was not very successful in that last part--too skinny), so I had to consciously work to relax and calm down with some help from a very wise coach.  It paid off in the end, and it will for you too.  18:00 will seem like cake if you train smart. 

Hope that helps.  Good luck on the race, and future races.

[Jon Allen]

Joe is dead on.  80% base mileage, 20% fast stuff.  Maybe 25%, no more.  Don't race everyday.  And get in as many miles as you can.

[Mike Musso]

Ok I'm going to apply this to my training, I think I just wanted to blast myself back to that same speed I was when I was out of high school and I'm pretty close but my endurance isn't the greatest and without a good mileage base I'll be risking injury and the times will be more difficult to get down. Unfortunatly though I read this 5 hours too late and I ran an 8 mile run in 50:32 which was cool because I passed the 5k mark at like 19 low but after reading this that time is going to be difficult to keep or lower if I don't increase my mileage and easy mile days.  This was probably what made me so frustrated in High School when my times were hardly going down after 4 months of training! Like I said I'm going to apply what you said that's why I got this was to get advice and learn how to run better. Thanks again I'll post my race time once I run it!