What do you think I can run?

[breanna cobler]

This weekend we have state at BYU. I am running in the 1600 and the 3200. I am mainly focused on the 1600 right now because it is first, but I would like to do well in both. My training hasn't seemed to transfer into my races yet but I'm hoping it will this weekend. My fastest mile so far this year has been a 6:08 and my fastest two mile has been a 13:11. Based on my speed workouts I feel like I should be running much faster than this. In both races I have one of the slowest seeds so I will be running with girls who are lots faster than me. This should hopefully help with my time, but what do you guys feel is a realistic goal based on the past few weeks of workouts I have done?

[Sasha Pachev]

Breanna:

My thoughts. In your May workouts you have been working on your 800 meter gear. The problem with it is that for you your 800 meter gear poorly connects with your 1600 meter gear, and your 1600 meter gear poorly connects with your 3200 meter gear. So in your case how well you do on intervals shorter than 1200 will poorly predict your mile performance, and how well you do on intervals shorter than 2000 will poorly predict your 3200 performance.

So I would just target to do a little better than you did in your last meet. Pace yourself for a 6:00 1600, and if your fitness is better you will have a strong kick and run 5:53. If not, you can still run 6:05, which is still an improvement.

In the 3200 pace yourself for 13:20 (1:40 laps). If your fitness is better than that you will have a strong kick, and will break 13:00. If not, you should still be able to run 13:30 which would be an improvement.

Moving on, I think with your natural strengths and weaknesses any interval shorter than 1200 should not be done for the purpose of conditioning, only for fun to check if you still have the speed, and only on rare occasions. 1200s should be done in 4:30 or faster, if any of the laps except the first is significantly slower than 90, it's time to stop the workout. In other words,  if you do 87 - 94 -89, you need to stop, and if you do 87 - 90 - 93, you need to stop, but if you do 93 - 90 - 87, that's OK. Work on being able to run 3 of them.

For the 3200 - 2000 intervals. Start the first lap in 1:40, then run a second or so faster every lap. If you cannot, stop mid-interval, you've done enough. Even if you cannot make it to the end of the first interval.

Pacing is very important. Doing a 2000 like this: 1:30 - 1:33 - 1:38 - 1:39 - 1:40 is 800 meter training for you (with some post-interval suffering). Running those same splits in reverse order would be  3200 meter training even though you end up with the exact same finish time for the interval. The reason is that in the first instance you will run 1:30 off short-term energy systems (anaerobic gear). In the second instance you are forced to run 1:30 using long-term energy systems (aerobic gear) because the anaerobic gear to a great extent would be disabled by the time you get to the fifth lap.

[Jeff Linger]

In coordination with base training of a continuous nature I would suggest that early in a season an athlete training for these events should do Interval Training that involves incomplete recoveries. Typically we would set an incomplete recovery time at 1/3 the time it takes to achieve full recovery from 1 by X meters. Workouts of this nature would include things like X# by 400 meters, X# by 200 meters, X# by 800 meters, or X# (X# by 400 meters). Generally speaking if we don't know the exact time an athlete would take to fully recover from a single bout we can establish a reverse type of recovery that looks something like this for Breanna. Normally an Interval Session should be about, but not exceed, twice the race distance. So if she's targeting a 6:00 mile she would do an interval session that runs around 3200 meters in length. Lets say she's doing 8 x 400 meters. We want her to achieve about 2/3rds of her full recovery which generally occurs in about the time of 1/3 of her full recovery. For the 6:00 miler we would look to hit off around 90-95 seconds, and she'd probably need about 1:20 to recover between each individual 400. This, relatively speaking, is high volume lower intensity (which is why we've chosen 400 meter intervals). Later in the season we'd look to have her do Repetition Running -- longer bouts, high intensity, complete recovery. Each individual repetition would be up to 2/3rds of the race distance and, depending on the event, duration, intensity, and volume, the entire session should range from 2/3rds to 2 times the race distance run at or near race speed. So for Breanna we'd have her doing something like 3 x 1200 meters in 4:30 with about 8-10 minutes rest between each 1200 meter repetition. It should be noted that sessions similar to this MUST be accompanied by regular bouts of continuous running throughout the season on non-repetition or non-interval days.

Of course, for Breanna, this is neither here nor there. How she should go out, what sort of pace she should hold during the various stages of the race and in-race strategies will all depend on her strengths and weaknesses. Generally speaking, if she wants to run a 6:00 mile she should probably look to be around 3:02-3:05 at the half. Again, I can't see her website, so I don't know anything of her training, and I don't know how she races. If we assume that the toughest part of any race is the 3rd quarter of the race for a 6:00 miler lets assume that they're going to hit off the 3rd quarter in 93 or so seconds. If we go off conservatively in 90 seconds, we need to either hold steady in the 2nd lap around 95 seconds and come home in the 4th lap around 82 seconds, tough to do ... or go out a touch faster in the first lap, say 85-87, hold tough for 2 laps around 93 seconds each, and come home in the 88-90 second neighborhood. Of course you could just go Pre-fontaine looking to break a world record from the movie Without Limits ... 1:30 boom, 3:00 boom, 4:30 boom, 6:00 boom.

[Sasha Pachev]

I think it is better to just run a longer interval instead of many short ones even with incomplete recoveries. Why take a recovery at all? The most productive part of the interval is after you've run for at least 5 minutes at race pace or close. That is when your HR finally gets to where it will stay for most of the race. So the first 5 minutes of any interval are wasted for the purpose of training the aerobic component. Because it does not fully engage until then. That  "aerobic waste" zone can be reduced by taking shorter recoveries, and/or accelerating the intensity of the recovery, but it is reduced to zero if the recovery is reduced to zero as well.

Shorter intervals are beneficial for training the anaerobic component, including the muscular strength and neural drive. Here I define "anaerobic" a little different - as "relevant to distance performance, but not depending on aerobic conditioning".

For Breanna, the anaerobic component indicators are OK, but the aerobic component seems to be lacking. More specifically, the component that you need from 800 to 3200. So that is what she needs to train.

[Jeff Linger]

Why take a recovery at all? ... reduced to zero if the recovery is reduced to zero as well.

Funny. Seriously, one of the funniest things I've read in some time. No disrespect Sasha, but we're not training to be able to run 26 x 1600 + .2 with no recovery in between. Spoken like a true marathoner! What you're talking about should be covered on the continuous running aerobic base training days. If she lacks the aerobic capacity to do this she will gain it by those base workouts. She will also gain it through the use of the early season interval training where the volume is higher, the recovery incomplete, and the pace somewhat slower than race pace.

[Sasha Pachev]

Jeff - the problem is that Breanna already does enough base conditioning. Same as her dad, actually. They both have the same challenge. Probably genetic. They respond to base in the half marathon and longer department but not in the 5 K department.

[Jeff Linger]

I would think then, Sasha, all the more reason to do more reps, shorter distance.

[Sasha Pachev]

The problem is they do not respond to shorter reps either. Bill (Breanna's dad) can do 20x400 in 70 closing the last one in 64. That workout would be very difficult for me, and sometimes not doable at all. Yet Bill has never been closer to me in a 5 K than 1:20 as far as I can remember. As the distances get longer, he falls behind in expected proportions. So his failure point is somewhere between the 400 and the 5000.

Another argument against shorter reps. I have been able to do 50x100 with 100 meter jog in between with the total time of 12:54 for the 5 K. My best 5 K on a course I would call reasonably honest (0.4% net drop, but with some uphill in the middle) is 15:37. So in that sprint workout I did the race distance at pace that would be very much in the dream area. I can already run awfully fast for the entire distance if you give me breaks. The challenge is to learn to run awfully fast without breaks. For Bill and Breanna, even more so.

[Jeff Linger]

But Sasha, theoretically, these short intervals with incomplete rest are exactly the thing that builds the speed endurance and strength endurance for the shorter race. Which is why they should be done early in training with focus shifting to Repetition training later. I suppose the sort of workout you originally proposed would work over a long period of continued use. But it won't build speed endurance, simply strength endurance.

[breanna cobler]

So today I ran the 1600 very slow. I ran it in 6:10...after my race my doctor called me and told me I have walking pneumonia so I'm guessing that is part of my problem, but hopefully the 3200 will go better.