Weight lifting for runners?

[Jon Allen]

It depends on what works best for you, but also what you have/make time for.  There are a lot of things that could make us better runners (more running, more stretching, more sleep, weight lifting, etc), but a finite amount of time.  So you have to judge where your time is spent most effectively (which is, by definition, what works best for you, I guess).

[jtshad]

I was primarily a "weight lifter" before I started competitively running.  I have really cut back on my weight training as I have focused on increased mileage for my endurance training.  While I have noticed a decrease in most aspects of my "strength", my overall fitness and running effciency has improved.   I am about 15 lbs. lighter now that I was 3 years ago based on my training routine and am in much better overall shape.  I would advocate, as Paul does, that some weight training could be beneficial to running (injury prevention, etc.) and is definitely good for overall health (especially as you get older, like this old guy) but you have to weigh the time factor as Jon indicates.  With my time commitments, I have chosen to focus on my running training to maximize my benefits and throw in hill training to get a "strength" workout from time to time (as does my running in the near constant winds here in SE Idaho). 

[Dave Holt]

As most of you who know me can tell - I, too, was "primarily a "weight lifter" before I started competitively running."

[jtshad]

Dave, now you are just showing off!  We all know you were on the "juice" and that built that Arnold like physique.  :-)

[Jon Allen]

I know I am jealous of Dave!  Maybe I should change my avatar to Arnie instead of Hulk...

[Sasha Pachev]

Nick - what made you think you do not have good form? I remember when I first saw you I thought you were on the CU team and it was your form that made me think that.

My experience with weight training. Stronger arms allowed me to lift more weight, but running did not change in any way I could notice. Stronger abs increased the number of sit-ups I could do in 2 minutes, but again I noticed no changes in running. Stronger back made me think I was running better, but I noticed no difference in running performance over any distance. Here is the most perplexing one. Leg weights  increased  the leg extension by 10% and the hamstring curl by 30%, but there was no measurable difference even in 100 meter sprint. Which suggests that at least for me even the top end speed is not limited by muscle strength, there is something else that comes into play before I am able to max out my strength limits. Which does make sense - you simply do not have the time to push off with 100% force even when running at top speed. So it is all about how much force you can apply in that short amount of time.

My opinion is that while top end speed could be limited by muscle strength a marathon is not. Most people will hit cardiovascular, fuel storage, muscle durability and other limits a lot sooner. I suppose you could argue that extra muscle strength can help when you've torn up half of your quad at the end of a marathon and are badly out of fuel to be running primarily off blood sugar or be in some other situation where your muscles are getting an external source of fuel not local to the muscle, and there is not enough of a muscle left to use it all. Which probably is what is happening with Fred's ultra friend. But under normal circumstances I believe you would be hitting different limits.

[Nick Miller]

Sasha - I tend to flail at the end of races if I am hurting a lot (which is most of the time since I go out hard too much ) When I am not tired my form is ok, but I have to concentrate to keep it relatively good. I don't really know if any of this has affected my running pace, though. Our coaches harp about proper core strength, and I think it does help to an extent when I concentrate on form, but when I am really fatigued I don't know if it helps. I think that running often is the best way to increase form and strength. When you saw me running in Boulder, I was not really thinking about form, but I didn't really run back then either (maybe once a week). Haha, to think about it, that run was the furthest I had ever ran before. I remember you were effortless and I was hurting. Are you coming back through Boulder again? It would be awesome to run sometime.

[kbaar]

I was asked to add my input to this forum since I study this area both in the lab and in training elite athletes. Strength training adds a number of benefits to running performance including improving speed and injury prevention. However, in distance running adding weight has a negative effect on performance. so with that in mind, here is my advice for serious runners.

Weight training should take a runner no more than 10 minutes. Stick to multi-joint exercises (i.e. push ups, chin ups, bench press, leg press). Don't do high reps with light weights. This does nothing good, it is a waste of time. Instead, do one set of ~6 exercises with 6-10 repetitions for the upper body. Always move the weights slowly shorten the muscle on a 2 count and length on a 4 count. When you can lift a weight 10 times increase the weight until you feel that you are adding muscle mass (may never happen for you) and go back to the last weight and maintain that level. In the lower body, don't do leg extensions since they put too much stress of the patellar tendon. For the hamstrings, do 8-12 leg curls. and for the rest of the legs do 25 calf raises, leg press, or backwards lunges. When you can do 25 increase the weight.

A good workout would be: Bench press, pulldowns, shoulder press, leg curls, leg press, and calf raises. or Dumbbell lateral raises, chin ups, push ups, leg curls, backwards lunges, and calf raises.

Core strength/stability:
Three key areas here. The first is the abdomen but most people spend too much time on this and do the wrong exercises. The second key area is the hip and the third is the ankle. For the abs don't do crunches! concentrate on pulling the stomach in and using the transverse abdominus. Here, do cave ins where you suck your stomach in as far as possible and draw up your pelvic floor muscles, hold this for ~30 seconds. After this try maintaining that position while you do a plank (in push up position). For the hip, sit up strait on a bench, put your toes together and you heels apart, and then squeeze a soccer ball with your knees while you contract your gluts (I know this sounds ridiculous, but it is great for relieving back pain and loosening the hip). Next, lay on your side with the lower leg straight and the upper leg bent with your foot on the calf of the lower leg. Leaning forward, rotate the knee of the upper leg out. You should feel a small muscle in the side of you glut contract (this is your gluteus medius). Do 25 of these. For your ankle, before and after you run, close your eyes and stand on one leg for 30 seconds, switch legs and repeat.

Injury prevention:
The most common injuries for runners are the tendons of the hamstrings, patella, and Achilles.
•   To protect the quads and the origin of the hamstrings, try step back lunges or assisted leg press;
•   For lunges, hold a weight in both hands, step back, touch the knee to the ground and step forward again. These are better focused on the lengthening contraction than the more common forward lunges.
•   For assisted leg press, press the weight out with both legs and then lower the weight to 90 degrees on a 10 count with one leg;
•   To hit the insertion of the hamstrings, add some negative leg curls by curling a weight with both legs and letting the weight down slowly with one leg;
•   For the Achilles, negative heel raises are very effective: on a step, go up onto both toes and slowly go down on one, adding weight when this becomes too easy;
These are similar to the exercises that I suggested above for the weight training. So when you start the weights you won't need to add these. Add five to ten reps of each of these exercise once you have been weight training for 3 months. Do one session a week up until the peak phase of your training to maintain tendon function without adding any more muscle mass.

I hope this helps.

[Jon Allen]

Wow, that is great info!  Kbaar- do you by chance know any websites that show pictures of all/many of these exercises?  I'm a very visual learner so that would make it easier to make sure I understand them and do them correctly.

[adam]

There is an excellent article in the April 2008 Muscle and Fitness which explains the weight training techniques of Bruce Lee. He spent alot of time working the core, and did high repitition exercises with multijoint exercises, and learned through experimentation what worked best for him to increase power and speed while maintaining weight. He did this because early in his career he realized that he lacked significant endurance, power, and speed, though he was in decent shape. It took him a while to find weight programs that worked for him, and was continually evaluating their effectiveness- rotating intesities and repititions and exercises. In the end, it was this continued resistance training in addition to his daily endurance training that helped create his quick speed and strength for his small size. Two quotes from the article I like are:

"[Bruce] always said, "You can be strong but if you can't use your strength and speed, then you are not powerful, which is key"

"At 135 pounds weight, Lee could stand holding a 125-pound barbell parallel to the floor and kick a 300-pound heavy bag hard enough to hit the ceiling on the resulting swing. He also performed 50 one-arm chins and held a v-sit for more than 30 minutes"

I am beginning to think that the idea of weight training for runners is severly limited to our perception of what weight training entails. Traditional weight training ideas held by runners and their practice may not bring the results they are looking for-but a dedicated experimentation and implementation of resistance training may bring out significant benefits we did not know we could achieve.