pr's and weight

[Steve P]

No doubt. I just ran 12 miles and then promptly ate a club sandwich, large fries, and a shake. I usually eat better than that but am traveling, so I justified it. But still, something to be careful on.

[John Ruprecht]

I'm 6'3" and I was 176-178 when I ran 2:50 at New York City in 2007, and I was about 172-174 when I ran 2:43 at Newport last May. Right now at 185 I can definitely feel that added weight. Dropping 10-15 pounds makes a big difference.

I should add I raced at 160 or so in college.

[dave rockness]

This is good...thanks folks!  I've searched high and low and found very little testimonial material.  My plan is to concentrate hard on diet (eat healthy, spread meals out evenly), adjust weightlifting program (more reps, less weight), and keep plugging away with the running.  BTW- Bob, I know this isn't the bragging section, but would you mind posting a few of your weightlifting pr's?  You've made quite a transition from lifting to running. 

[Bob]

My last serious weightlifting cycle was in 2001 and I weighed around 250lbs.  My max deadlift and squat were both just over 500lbs (I could always pull about 10-20lbs more in deads) and my max bench was 315.  I was totaling 1300-1400 lbs so I was a "mid-packer" with weight lifting folks.  My bench was the laggard because I was blessed with long arms that came in handy for other sports, but do you no good in bench pressing.  There are times when I miss those days of chalk dust, clanging iron, and all out exhaustive effort.  What's strange is when I apply similar methods I used in weight training to speed training (intervals), I end up frying myself out and injured.  I simply can't go close to all out as frequently like I did with weights, which is both interesting and frustrating.  I recall muscles being sore somewhere on my body 24/7 during a weightlifting cycle.  Now, I'm mostly stiff and don't experience muscle tissue soreness until finishing a marathon (particularly Boston).

[dave rockness]

Bob, just remember, you probably had like a 25 year base for weightlifting.  You're still developing it in running.  It's a challenging shift. 

[Sasha Pachev]

Running is not weight-lifting. In addition to the muscular effort to produce the pushing force you also deal with the impact of landing.
A fast-twitch guy needs to be very careful with an all-out sprint. This soreness is normal.

If 315 bench press is mid-pack, what about 150 ? :-)

[Samantha Howard]

Okay, I am about 139 lbs, 5'9 woman I seem to hold muscle pretty well not sure why but I do, 16% body fat!  Im training for a marathon wanting
sub3 hours, I know I need to lose more weight, Ideal I think for me is 132lbs. Now I know Paula radcliffe is 5'9 and shes about 125 lbs, not sure I could get that low!

I am frustrated at the moment as Im running 80 miles a week with quality sessions, I am tired, and I do try to eat well, I dont overeat except once a day
at the weekend! I am just not sure why my weight hasnt gone down further than this, I know ive lost some as my clothes are looser etc, and I actually thought I did weigh less and was pretty surprised I weight this much huh 

[Chris M]

Some ideas:
* If you train for the marathon you train to make your body store more carbs in the form of glycogen, glycogen has water in it which makes it heavier hence you may weigh more if you are storing a lot of it, same with water
* Your body may retain more water/fat/carbs since it thinks you might continue 80 mile weeks and it will need them!
* A lot of your apparent weight could be water/food you've eaten/ etc for example when I was ill couple of weeks back I didn't eat anything for three days and my weight was nearly 65kg and I don't think I lost any fat!
* Are your scales reliable/accurate?

[Michelle Lowry]

Sam, my college coach (Patrick Shane) told us to not worry about weight but by size.  For those who wanted to lose or monitor weight to do it by periodically trying to put on our skinny jeans (the ones that don't quite fit in the closet ). 

I also found that if I trained right for long enough, my weight eventually got to where it needed to be.  I naturally cut out more and more junk, and replaced it with what my body needed.  When I know I have long term goals, and a hard workout coming up, I stop even wanting the bad stuff I previously indulged in.  I hope this gradual transformation happens for you too.  Your long term goals may mean you need to not go crazy on the weekend too.  I modified my diet to allow myself a small pack of candy for the movies on the weekend, instead of a movie-size candy pack.  So I do get the weekend feel, but not the full cost of it.

I wouldn't worry about Paula Radcliff's weight for now.  Since your goal is a 2:45, not a 2:20.  Perhaps when you're in shape for a 2:45 you'll be ready for the sacrifices it takes to go lower.  These full time athletes revolve their lives around running, and their bodies are marathon machines.

[Samantha Howard]

Thanks Chris, I get what your saying yeah my scales is pretty good, checked my weight on my mums scales and its the same bar one Lb, I hear what your saying about the carbs etc as well, yeah I think im holding allot of water  at the moment, as some days I feel lighter if ya know what I mean...

Michelle,   Yeah not quite their on the real skinny jeans, the ones I know im very skinny when I can get into LOL can get into my regular skinny jeans, and my other clothes well allot looser   

I am certainly not the build of Paula radcliffe no matter how much I could try, I have pretty broad shoulders to say the least I am originally and naturally a 1500m runner more like Kelly holmes!
The weekend I dont eat junk at all, I just carb up a bit if I am doing a long run, I basically eat more carbs than protein thats all..

I get what your saying about full time athletes, although this time I am taking it pretty damn serious having two days off work although having to still work and run the family home is hard going at the moment.  I think my problem is I forget to eat then eat loads at once on some days I am not sure, I know Ive lost some just that as my physio told me tonight I have now developed bigger quads but thats me I could train for ultra running and still build muscle Thanks for replied, I think I was in panic mode I just thought I weighed less thats all 

[Steve P]

According to my favorite running book, The Lore of Running, our bodies store a maximum of 600-700 grams of carbohydrates (glycogen) at any given time. So that could be part of it, but I would suspect it contributes little to the difference in what you expected you would weigh and what you weighed.

Just based on personal experience, I can tell you that I weight much differently in the evening than I do in the morning. Your clothes and shoes also make a much larger difference (as much as a few pounds) than you might suspect. I always weigh myself in the buff, right after getting up in the morning, and after going to the bathroom. This way I know I am comparing apples to apples each time I weigh myself. Though there surely still will be some variation due to things like exercise time/intensity the previous day and other factors related to digestion.

[Sasha Pachev]

Samantha:

Some food for thought. First, it is next to impossible to measure body fat properly. Second it is rather meaningless anyway. There is a reason your body chooses to store a certain amount of fat, and trying to muck with that is not a good idea.

Same goes for weight. There is a reason your body chooses to weigh a certain amount. Kind of like there is a reason one family spends $500 a month, and another $5000 a month. Of course, it could be that the second family just spends too much. But it could also be that they have more children to feed, or their children are growing and need to eat a lot, or maybe they have a sick child and he needs expensive medication. You cannot say to them - here, this family A spends only $500, so you should be able to do that as well. This is not to say that if you should not try to go through your budget and eliminate unnecessary expenses, but you should not try to force it into somebody else's standard.

So applying that to running health. Make sure your meals are to the best of your understanding of nutrition. Eat plenty of healthy foods. Do not eat the lesser foods otherwise known as junk. Train right, sleep right. Your weight will be where it should be, and so will your performances.

[Samantha Howard]

steve good idea, I will try do that from now, but as you said it was more I thought I weighed less !

Sasha afraid for the first time Im not sure I would agree with you especially on the body fat I have always measured that quite successfully whether its right or not its good to measure it, as it does get lower the leaner I get so it must be somewhat reliable!

I understand that your saying everyone is different i.e body type although I do think people can monitor their weight and alter accordingly with small changes in calories and good healthy food, as there is allot of scientific proof on relation to race times and weight. 

[April G]

Hey Sam I betcha if you weigh in a couple of weeks your weight will be down, since you have recently upped your mileage.   I have noticed in my limited time running that everytime my mileage goes up, my weight jumps, then, after about 3 weeks or so at that mileage it plummets.  This scenario repeats over and over again every time I up my mileage.  It may be the same for you.  Just a thought!

[Sasha Pachev]

I had my body fat measured in a capsule and it came out to be 4%. Then I had it measured with a current through the arms and it was 16% twice several years apart. A 2:11 marathoner in about 2:16 flat sea level course shape (he ended up running 2:19 in the SLC marathon the next day in good conditions with no wind) had a similar body fat measurement using the same instrument (current through the arms). Another runner who ended up running a PR of 2:39 in the SLC marathon the next day (that was 2008, windy), which probably was worth 2:32 on a sea-level course adjusting for the altitude and the wind, was measured at 10%. I ran 2:34, worth probably about 2:27 on an honest course with the body fat of 16%. I also measured my body fat on a scale  that ran the current through the legs the night before the race and it came out to be 10%. I have done it on other occasions and have gotten consistent results for the method.

So is my body fat 4%, 10% or 16%? And does it even matter given the wide spread in the marathon performance of three different runners that did not correlate with the body fat measurement.

I think we have a tendency to get too excited about sophisticated gadgets giving us numbers that are rather irrelevant. My approach is - take any promising number that you can obtain on a consistent basis without going overboard (e.g paying $300 for one VO2 Max test is overboard in my book, even paying $300 for GPS-measured running speed is overboard), and take all numbers with a grain of salt. Pay attention to them if you see yourself or others running faster or slower when that number changes. Never focus on improving the magic number, focus on improving your running performance. If somebody faster than you has a better magic number, take that with a grain of salt, do not worry too much about catching his magic number, worry about catching him instead. Incidentally, I have passed Frank Shorter, knocked the socks off Derek Clayton, and am almost as good as Bill Rogers on VO2 Max, but still have a long long way to go to beat their times on any distance.

If you are able to improve the performance without improving the magic number, or if the magic number improves, but the performance does not, the number perhaps is not so magic.

So according to my observations body fat alone lacks the magic. Weight alone, or even in combination with body fat lacks the magic unless you have been filling your body with junk food for years and have had periods of inactivity. In fact, even VO2 Max does not have as much magic as the hype around it would predict. If you know you are not a sprinter, 100 meter speed carries more magic than VO2 Max. 800 meter speed is full of magic.

I believe once you have taken care of the aerobic development and packing spare tires around the waste (obviously excessive weight) the magic is in the muscle fiber recruitment in the movements of running. But the best reasonable way to measure it for somebody who does not have a lab (or maybe even for somebody who does) is via the actual running performance. So we are back to square one - a measured course, a watch, and run your guts out on it to see if you have more magic.