Classifying Strider (Strides, Pick-ups, etc) Mileage

[Dale]

How is everyone classifying their "Strides" mileage?  Granted, it's fast, but since mine are only generally 100m in length, I hesitate to think of them as VO2Max miles.....I probably don't have enough time to even get to VO2Max, much less time to adapt to anything.  So I'm leaning towards counting them as "Easy" miles, but wanted other opinions.

[Sasha Pachev]

I count it as V02 Max. My coach in Russia a long time ago advised us to count it as threshold. Aerobically it is probably threshold, muscularly it is V02 Max equivalent.

[Paul Petersen]

I put mine as easy miles usually. In my mind, I don't sustain the pace to get any kind of VO2 or LT stimulus out of it. And they have a completely different purpose: to enhance form and efficiency.

[Adam R Wende]

I'm with Paul on this one. I usually do them within the run. When I do them at the end of a run I don't even count them toward my mileage for the day. This is often the best. I used to always finish at a track and I would do them barefoot in the infield. That would always feel great!

[Sasha Pachev]

VO2 Max work, though, is, at least for me, 80% about efficiency. Come to think of it, if you are a marathoner, you do not want to increase your VO2 Max if it makes you use more oxygen to produce the same amount of power. Interestingly enough, it is not uncommon to find a 2:10 marathoner with a VO2 Max of around 70. I do have reasons to suspect that  V02 Max work has a tendency to increase oxygen consumption at the same running speed. In 2004 I had my VO2 Max measured, and reached 67 at RER of 1.00 (threshold) with the max being 75.9. At that time I did a lot of VO2 Max work, and could really make myself hurt in a 5 K. In 2007 I did a VO2 test again, this time not quite pushing it to the limit because I had a marathon the next day. I hit 64 at RER of 1.00, and I stopped the test at 68.8 and RER of 1.04. In 2004 when I went further (although it was the lab attendant that stopped the test then), I hit RER of 1.06. So I imagine I could have pushed the VO2 to about 70-71 on the 2007 test, but I did not feel I had much more room to push it. It was odd - running just a bit slower I felt like I could run forever, but then there was a very steep increase in effort once we moved it up a notch, and I started very quickly feeling the pace was terribly out of control, could hold it maybe for a mile, no more. So there were too differences - VO2 at threshold was a bit lower, and VO2 Max dropped even more. But I raced faster in the halves and in the full marathons. The difference in training was one tough VO2 Max workout a week in 2004 vs. no V02 Max workouts in 2007, only tempos in the middle of the Big Workout.

[Dale]

Isn't that a sign that your efficiency has improved even though your VO2Max has dropped?  Since you're not running VO2Max workouts anymore, your VO2Max would logically decrease.  Also, since you've been running more years and have been doing drills to increase efficiency (Strides), you're O2 needs at the same pace should have decreased.  If (a big if) I understand my running physiology, that would explain what you just described.
I'm not so sure I understand why you believe a higher VO2Max results in using more oxygen to produce the same power though?

[Sasha Pachev]

Aside from an intuitive feeling from running on the treadmill, watching the numbers, and comparing that feeling to what I feel in the workouts and races, here is some numeric evidence. Sub-2:10 marathons have been accomplished with a VO2 Max of as low as 67. Overall, specialized marathoners (runners that are too slow in a 10 K to care to train for it), tend to have a VO2 Max lower than 75. A guy with a VO2 Max over 80 tends to do well in a 10 K, but often does not get his 10Ks worth in a marathon, even though he may still pull off a world class time. Also, college runners, the group that typically does 3 VO2 Max workouts a week, are notorious for spectacular bonking in a marathon. I cannot think of one guy here in Utah that tried a marathon within 6 months after being out of college that went out at the pace he was worth based on his track times and did not bonk big time over the last 10 years - and that in spite of doing due diligence on the long runs and tempos. So those numbers/facts combined, plus my intuitive feeling leads me to suspect that specific VO2 Max training builds a race car type of engine - powerful and speedy, but less efficient. Thus, if the suspicion is correct, the trick to figure out is how to increase that power without losing the efficiency.

[Dale]

Hmmm.  Interesting posit.  Perhaps it's because VO2Max work tends to develop your FT fibers more, which are less efficient over longer distances, while focusing on Tempo and other Threshold workouts targets the ST fibers more, hence better marathon results?  Guess it just goes to show that you can't cheat marathon training.