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Author Topic: Running form  (Read 4836 times)
Ian Hanson
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« on: June 02, 2009, 08:49:48 am »

I read somewhere that some runners tend to over stride when they run, I'm 6'1'' and feel better when I have a longer stride. The articles I read said that this can lead to problems and even slow you down, since the heel of your foot acts like a break and you also tend to have more impact. The article said to shorten your stride and speed up your leg turnover. I tried this on the first mile, it felt very unnatural and seemed to take more energy to run that mile. On the second mile I ran my normal form, with long strides, slower turnover and my feet landing somewhat flat. The second mile felt easier and less energy used. I ran both miles in the same amount of time. I would appreciate any help or comments about my running form that I am trying to perfect.
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Jeff Linger
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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2009, 09:36:45 am »

A study was done on turnover rate by studying male and female runners in the olympics (don't remember which one) in all events from the 800 through the marathon. They found that in almost every event and almost every runner had a turnover rate of about 180 steps per minute. They suggested working towards that sort of turnover rate. The easiest way to find your turnover rate is to count the number of right foot or left foot touches in a single minute. When I did it I found that when I ran faster than a 6:30 mile my turnover rate was right there, but as my pace slowed below that the turnover rate was slowed to 85 right foot touches/minute or so. This seemed to remain true through about 7:45 pace and after that it slowed again. The submission of the article was that essentially elite runners touch down about 180+ times/minute at all training paces. I'm not sure that's the case. But I do believe that focusing on it can be a mistake. It can sometimes alter your stride unnaturally. You'd be better off focusing instead on what part of your foot actually strikes the ground first. In his book Brain Training For Runners Fitzgerald has some great cues he recommends you practice every day on your run. The goal is to get to a point where these things occur without thinking about it. Examples of this include: Pulling the road, Naval to spine, Leaning forward at the ankles, Squeezing the buttox. There are others as well, but those 4 I have found most beneficial, especially once one gets to a point where they can encorporate them simultaneously. Don't simply try to guess at what such cues might be like. If you don't want to buy the book, spend 20 minutes sitting at Borders or something and read over the section on Propreiceptive Cues.
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Ian Hanson
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2009, 10:37:15 am »

When I timed myself yesterday I was around 80 steps per minute with my left while trying to shorten my stride and increase turnover, and ran the mile at 7:20. That would be 1.3 steps per second, so to do 180 spm would be 3 steps per second. This just seems to be very fast movements for your legs ( at least mine ;p). Is there some type of training you would suggest to build up to that kind of turnover? I'll attach a link to the training guide I'm following now.
http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/advancedint.htm
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jtshad
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2009, 10:51:24 am »

Ian, this same question was just recently discussed on the forum at the following location:

http://fastrunningblog.com/forum/index.php/topic,880.msg7914.html#msg7914

I transitioned to a midfoot strike when I started training for marathon distance and to be more competitive.  It was a difficult transition for about the first month but then I started to really see the results.  My pace increased and I have been able to avoid injury (mostly) ever since.   Injury prevention is due to the fact that when you land midfoot, your muscles can absorb more of the impact rather than all the energy going right into your skeletal system (and thus knees, hips, etc.). 

The pace improve comes from the combination of your foot turnover and power that you impart to the ground.  By increasing you turnover and increasing your power (exemplified by the "toe off" you push when you run, or your "kick") you increase you pace.  More power lengthens your "stride" by making each footfall be that much further apart, thus increasing your distance between each step.   This, and not taking huge strides, is how you increase your actual stride length.

It is difficult to put it all together.  I started by increasing my turnover...I inserted and extra step in my cadence and kept my footfalls under my center of gravity more (felt like taking baby steps at first).  So, I started with a 1-2-3 cadence every 1.5 second and changed to a 1-2-3-4 cadence.  In a race, my turnover rate now is more like 190-200 strikes per minute. 

After about a month, this started to feel more normal.  Once I had it feeling more natural, I focused a lot on my power (toe/kick/etc.) to improve the feel of pushing harder on the ground.  Then I worked to combine the two factors to improve my performance.  This took some time but now is second nature. 

In addition, other little things can improve your overall efficiency:
- Do not cross your arms in front of your body when running, move them forward to gain momentum in the upper body
- Don't clench fists while running
- Stand erect when running with a slight lean forward (controlled fall forward, or pushing forward with your stomach)
- Head tilt should be slightly forward
- Relax your shoulders to keep proper form and not stressing muscles

I hope any of this helps, it worked for me but everyone is different and has a unique form to themselves.
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Sasha Pachev
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2009, 11:10:10 am »

I agree with Jeff. Just run and try to be smooth and relaxed, do not worry about the magic 180 number. Different runners have different optimal turnover rates at the same pace to begin with. Also, the faster you run the quicker you turnover. I would highly doubt a 28:00 10 K runner turns over at 180 at 9:00 pace. But he sure does at 5:20. A 40:00 10 K runner turns over at 200 when going 5:20 pace. Because he does not have the slow-twitch leg power to take strides sufficiently long to turn over at 180 when going this fast. Which is why 6:25 pace is all he can do in a 10 K - 5:20 is a sprint to him, and you do not sprint turning over at 180.

It is true, though, that less fit runners tend to turn over at 160-170 while more fit ones would turn over at 180 putting it the same effort relative to current fitness. But I see more of a consequence of a proper running form rather than the cause. If you are a clumsy runner turning over at 160 and you force yourself to turn over at 180, you will be nothing more than still a clumsy, even more awkward runner turning over at 180. The fix is more complex. You just need to run the mileage first to learn how to run long (base mileage), then you need to practice running fast with strides, tempos, and occasional intervals. Focus on running fast with minimum effort. Your body will eventually figure something out. You may never run like a sub-28:00 10 K runner, but you'll get as close as your natural limitations would permit over the course of the years.
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Jon Allen
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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2009, 11:30:52 am »

Ian- in regards to your question on rate, if you count on one foot only, the Jeffs are saying you should get 90 steps per minute.  If you count both feet, 180.  You are correct that 180 steps with one foot (i.e. 360 with both) would be impossible.  1.5 steps per second (per foot) is what you want.

I agree with everyone, as well, though I recognize changing stride is difficult.  And if you are taller, then a little slower may be ok.  The big thing is to ensure you are not overstriding, but make sure your foot lands directly under your body.  I've learned if you want to run faster, increase your stride rate, not length.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 12:52:18 pm by Jon Allen » Logged
Ian Hanson
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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2009, 12:05:26 pm »

Thank you for all the info, it's helped a lot. I'm slowly getting rid of all the false ideas about running that I had prior to really getting into it. I think that is why I injured my knees last year attempting to train for St. George.
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David S
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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2009, 03:43:28 pm »

The 180 number comes from the book Jack Daniel's Running Formula. I have been re-reading it and just read this yesterday.  The 180 number also appears with some popular running methods being taught, e.g. the POSE method and Chi Running.  They actually advocate the use of a metronom set to 180 to get comforatable with the stride rate.  You can also set your Garmin (if you have a foot pod) to record your stride rate.  I recorded mine last year and was consitently around 175 - 178. 

But I think correcting your stride and learning to run smoothly - as Sasha said - would be more beneficial at this point - specifically to strike midfoot vs. striking with your heel. 

The best book that I have found showing good form is Explosive Running.  He uses stop-action photography.  This helped me tremendously when I transitioned to a midfoot stiker.  http://stores.socaldata.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DRYS&Product_Code=B12&Category_Code=BK001

And pick up a copy of Brain Training For Runners as Jeff suggested.  The cues have helped me. 
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 04:00:16 pm by David S » Logged
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