Need help with training times

[Jeffrey Sachs]

This may not sound like much of a problem, but I could use some expert advise and comments on some of my stupidity over the past 2 years.  I am once again starting to run again after my latest 6 month hiatus.  I am trying to put together a training plan with times and goals, and am determined not to fall into the same pitfalls that I have over the past 2 years of running.  I have developed a bad habit of racing, but not running.  I have now ran close to a dozen half marathons over the last 3 years with a current PR of about 1:30.  That PR came when I was running 2 days a week, a 5 mile easy run, and long runs of 15-18 miles one day a week.  The other races were run with less mileage and I have completed 2 halfs without a single run in for the 4 months leading up to the race.  VERY bad habit I know, but I can go out and run 8 minute miles steady for what seems like forever, and can turn in a 1:40 - 1:45 half with no running leading up to it.  My problem is that I don't know where to go from here.  I don't really have an accurate latest race time to "plug into" the training calculators out there.  Even plugging a 1:30 race time in leaves my long run time at 8-9 min miles, which I get nothing from.  I always hear to start slow, but at what point is too slow?  I get tired of running when I am just plodding along and not getting anything from it, which is why I am where I am at.  I am determined to put something together and stick to it, but I want to get something from it, and not hurt myself.  I am guessing I should concentrate on my base first, and I know I am not an elite athlete, but is building up to 5-6 miles in 3-4 weeks at a 7:00 - 7:30 pace too much too quick for me?  Should I be heart rate training?  Do I need to go run a mile to get a starting point?  Any input from anyone on where to start would greatly be appreciated.

[Jeff Linger]

Jeffrey ... you've come to the right place. I'll simply say the following and then sit back and watch Sasha give birth to a cow (which he rightly should with this post -- I almost think someone logged in under a fake name to give him a coronary).

Run 6 days a week. Run at a comfortable pace. If running at the designated 'easy pace' times based on running calculator formulas "doesn't do anything for you" then go a touch faster. 7:30s is fine in my estimation, if it keeps you motivated, allows you to continue to do 6 days a week, and doesn't get you injured. My guess would be if everything you say is correct, that if you did nothing but run 6 days/week @7:30/mile (6+ miles/day) after 2-3 months you'd crack a 1:25:00 1/2 Marathon.

Sasha .... let the labor pains begin.

[adam]

sasha giving birth to a cow...not exactly the picture I thought I'd have in my head this morning...

[Jeffrey Sachs]

I didn't intend to give coronaries or birthing cows with my initial question, but maybe I did give too much information with my initial post.  I also failed to mention that I am fairly active in other areas, so I'm not coming off the couch into running.   

As you suggested, Jeff, that is what I plan on doing.  I ran 2 miles 3 days last week, and intend on running 3 miles 4 days this week with a 5 mile LR, 4 miles 5 days next week with a 6 mile LR, and 5 miles the following week, and building from there. My first question was really is there such a thing as too much mileage too quickly for base building if the pace is comfortable and you have nothing negative going on physically?  Secondly, if I want to introduce some LT or VO2 running at what point can I "safely" do that, and what is the best way for me to calculate the specific training paces for that type of training if I don't fit the "couch to 5k" or the "recent race time" category?

[Jeff Linger]

Jeffrey, I was playing around, of course. Sasha's big on the idea that, essentially, you should forget about speedwork until you have a solid base (minimum of a couple years) whereby you can run 10 miles/day 6 days a week without it fatiguing you. I have bought into this my plan as well after reading a number of books. You're on the right track. Basic theory is that you should increase your mileage about 10% every 3rd week. I don't know that this applies to every case though. You've clearly got something else going if you're capable of running a 1:45 1/2M off no training. In your case, I would think that you might be able to get away with 10% every week, but I'd think that once you got up to the 40-45 mpw area you might want to do something like 40 mpw for 2 week, 45 mpw for 2 weeks, 50 mpw for 3 weeks, 55 mpw for 3 weeks, 60 mpw for 3 weeks etc until your mileage is where you want it. I'd encourage you to throw in some recovery weeks (lesser mileage) about once/month. As for the speedwork, I haven't done speedwork (by speedwork I refer to VO2max stuff -- intervals and repeats [work bouts of 5-10 minutes]) since last March. Instead I've replaced it with Tempo Runs and Cruise Intervals. If you're targeting the 1/2M distance, I'd suggest you do Tempo Runs in the 6-8 mile range, flanked by some warm-up and cool-down miles. What pace should you run these at? Well, if you hit a 1:30 after a period of training 2 days a week, I think that you could easily target the 1:25 time (which would be 6:30s). I'd set that as your original Tempo pace. Cruise Intervals are Tempo Runs split up (usually 1/2 the distance of the tempo run, run slightly faster, and with an active recovery in between). In your case it might look something like 2 miles @ 7:45-8:00, 3 miles @6:15-6:30 pace, 1 mile @ 8:00, 3 miles @ 6:15-6:30, 2 miles @ 7:45-8:00. This would be an 11 mile run with 6 of it done at 1/2M-race-pace. These sorts of workouts should curb your compulsion to speed it up without fatiguing you terribly. I'd recommend that you don't throw these in for at least a few months of solid running though and that in the beginning you use them sparingly (maybe once every 2 weeks) and throw in a long run at a nice casual pace on the non-tempo weeks. In all cases listen to your body. If you feel tired or unmotivated, back off to the standard aerobic base runs only. You seem to have some great natural speed, just focus on the other stuff for now and the speed will develop as a result of better aerobic conditioning.

[Jeffrey Sachs]

Thank you Jeff for the advice.  The hardest part for me has been to wade through all of the good and bad info out there, the Jeff Galloways (not that he's a bad runner) walk / run plans, the 3 day a week plans, the VO2/LT complicated plans, as well as advice from fellow "local runners" who have been running for 40 years.  I want to step away from all of that and actually come up with a decent starting point and plan that works for me and my specific strengths and weaknesses.  Your advice was very sound and logical.  For the record I am planning on concentrating on the half marathons this spring and summer and am running one in 12 weeks actually.  Until that point I will continue to run pure aerobic base runs as you suggested, building my mileage as it is comfortable, working towards the 6 days a week.  Maybe my upcoming race will give me an actual starting point to plug in some additional tempos or progressive runs if I feel I am ready at that time.  Again thanks.