Grand Slam

[Superfly]

I think I've decided to spend my 2009 racing season working on the Utah Grand Slam. I know others have done this and it isn't advised if your wanting to chase down PR's but I think this will fit nicely into my goals for next year. I'll try to back off as much as possible but still maintain 60+ miles per week and kind of relax on the whole racing "PR" issue. Obviously I'd like to win the Grad Slam so I'll have to be in shape enough to run say a 2:40 at Ogden and so on down the line. This should be a nice little break from the 100+ miles a week and the constant stress of trying to improve. Then if I'm still in one piece by this time next year I'll try cranking things up again for one more push at a strong PR and possibly a OTQ...
So who's with me? How do we get going? What can I expect?
Most likely I'll do Ogden, Des News, Park City, and STG. I'll be skipping out on TOU unless something comes up and I miss one of the other races earlier in the year. I already know someone will try and talk me out of it and cation me against such a selfish act. However I'm 98% sure this is my plan. So your arguments need to be strong if you so wish to try.

[AndyBrowning]

Since you will be going for the GS win, you won't get to pick the 4 marathons that you run and will probably have to run TOU.  Wasatch Running sent out an email regarding the 2009 grand slam that said: "As we look to 2009, we would love to have your thoughts on what marathons you would like to see included.  A few new marathons have popped up in the state and we've thought about including some of them.  Some of the new ones are the Bear Lake Marathon, the Utah Valley Marathon, and the Little Grand Canyon Marathon.  Let us know if we should include some new ones or use some of the previous ones." 

I think that Ogden, Park City and St George will always be part of the grand slam but the 4th (or maybe 5th) is up in the air.  With your mileage base I don't think that it will be that difficult for you and you don't need to cut your training that much.  What you do lose is the sharpness from doing a lot of speed work because that is the one thing that is hard to do when you are recovering/tapering for the last couple of marathons.  The only argument that I could provide against it is that Paul won it in 2005 and was injured much of 2006 and Jed Burton won it in 2006 and I believe was injured for much of 2007.

[Paul Petersen]

As you're well aware, I ran the Slam back in '05. All my races and training from that season on are on my blog, and my mileage and times were pretty similar to your goals. In fact in ran it for pretty much the same reasons you want to: to lay low after a disappointing '04 marathon, not have any pressure on me, and learn how to properly run a marathon. I managed to do all this, especially learning the art of negative-splitting, which is essential to run the Slam. And I PR'ed at Ogden, and then again at St. George, so that was bonus. So I learned a lot from running it, but also left the season physically battered and broken, missed the rest of the fall, got temporarily healthy again, but then was injured from March - August of '06. This was after over a decade of completely injury-free running.

Would I run the Slam again? Not a chance. In the grand scheme, there is very little to gain and much to lose.

Clyde, you can achieve your goals of having a laid-back back year and relaxing on PR's without running the Grand Slam. If you want to run 60 miles/week, just run 60 miles/week, but do one or two marathons instead of five. The only thing you get from winning the Slam is a trophy and a gift certificate. And maybe some knee problems.

If you want an "off" season, but are serious about an OTQ attempt in 2010, it would be wiser to spend your time getting faster in the 5K and 10K instead of running 5 marathons. Work on your speed; this will help your marathon time in the long run. This would also accomplish your other wishes, as it doesn't take as much mileage to do 5K's and 10K's and it will be a welcome break from marathoning, with opportunities for PR's at other distances. And if you can improve to 15:00/31:00 for 5K/10K on legit courses, then 2:19 will look a lot less intimidating.

So there's my attempt to talk you out of running the Slam. 

[Superfly]

Andy that is interesting. I guess I'll have to keep my eye out for the new rules and things.
Paul- I know you said that you wouldn't run the Slam again. But is it a serious regret doing it in the first place or maybe something you'll always be happy you did once. I know it left you injured so that sucked but then once you got healthy again you had an amazing 2007 season.
I don't know... I understand that there is really nothing to gain but at the same time I'd like to win it just to say I did... once. However on the flip side I've also thought about doing just what you said and trying to improve speed in the 5k, 10k and half... but that doesn't sound very fun either. 

[Michelle Lowry]

Do what paul said 

[Sasha Pachev]

Clyde:

The chances of making it to  the marathon without being able to run a non-aided 5 K under 15:00 are about the same as the chances of making it to the Kingdom of Heaven without baptism. Paraphrasing John 3:5, "Except a man shall run a sub-15:00 5 K, he cannot enter in the Olympic Trials in the marathon..." 

Work on your 5 K speed. You might have some dormant speed that could be woken up. At least you had some real speed in college. I would recommend starting with this - run a quarter in 65, jog 400, repeat until you've done 8 or until you cannot hit 65. Once you can do 8, increase the distance to 800 and work on being able to do 4 in 2:15 with 800 recovery. Then move it up to 1000, 1200, 1600. Get to the point where you can do 3x1600 in 4:40 with full rest. Then cut down the rest to 400 meter jog, then 200 meter jog. At his point you should be able to run 5 K at the target speed. Do so in a race, then up the mileage and try to make it carry in a longer distance.

[Chad]

Clyde: I fully understand (and completely relate to) the desire/need to set another goal right away but maybe right now is not the best time to make important decisions about what to do with your running next year. You've just come off of a very hard season of training and racing. You ran a very challenging marathon that wasn't exactly what you expected (at least as far as time, but you had an awesome race overall).  Take some time and run easy, have fun. Let the goal come to you.  It will come.  It's advice I'm hoping to take myself.

[Sean Sundwall]

I guess I am getting into heaven without baptism. My 5k PR is 15:35.

[Jon Allen]

I guess I am getting into heaven without baptism. My 5k PR is 15:35.

   

Of course, you have only run, what, 2, in the past 5 years?  On the same day?

[Paul Petersen]

I guess I am getting into heaven without baptism. My 5k PR is 15:35.

Yeah, but isn't your 10K something like 31:15? That's equivalent (proxy) to 15:00.

[Sasha Pachev]

I was wondering how we were going to tie 1 Corinthians 15:29 (baptism by proxy) into this, but Paul did it for me 

[Superfly]

Guys thanks for the sound advice. I guess I have a few months to just chill and not really be focused on a running goal. It's hard because I'm really goal driven with my running so to kind of not be looking forward to something is kind of like a waste.
As far as the OTQ is concerned. I really don't have much of a chance at qualifying the way things are now. I think I missed the boat in 2007 at STG. But thats o.k. The thought of even trying a 5k at or under 15:00 just makes me hurt. I would like to work on my shorter distance speed. In Utah terms maybe work up to a 1:07 at Hobble or a 1:08 at Bryce in the next couple years.
I still may do the Slam though. It just seems like something to do "just once". Plus it's a good way to run some more of the Utah marathons.

[Paul Petersen]

Points for me. I've been baptized several times: once by sprinkling as an infant (Lutherans are into the infant thing), once by dunking as an adult (Baptists aren't in to the infant thing), and three times in college (14:56, 14:52, and 14:48). But never by proxy. I just like to say the word "proxy".

Solid commentary (and interpretation) on 1 Corinthians 15:29 here:
http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/28748/eVerseID/28748

[Sasha Pachev]

For the record, I did not find the commentary very convincing. You can only do that much trying to figure out what exactly something would have meant in Greek that was written almost 2000 years ago, especially if it was just one sentence in passing. But, aided by the modern day revelation (which one may consider a form of illegal assistance :-) ), I am quite certain that the Greek word in question means "in behalf of".

[Paul Petersen]

And I am quite certain of the other meaning. I just wanted to clarify my belief, for the record.