Can I qualify for Boston? Please Help

[cdmorton]

I have "officially' tried to qualify for Boston twice with 3:18 finishes both times.

Looking back I trained the nearly the same way and got exactly the same results.

This time I am shooting for 3:15 and have stuck strictly to the Hal Higdon Intermediate I schedule.
Previously, I had modified the novice schedules to meet my needs but felt like I was overtrained and tired on those races.

I would love to qualify, but just need the right training schedule to do it. I will follow it if it will get me in.

I am doing Columbus in two week and seriously considering Memphis in December.

Should I not qualify in Columbus is Memphis in December too soon to implement changes in my training to qualify?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

[Paul Petersen]

What has your previous training like? I don't know what the Higdon plan is (or any other plan for that matter). Success in marathoning is more about putting your head down and doing the work than finding the "right" plan with the right name attached to it.

In general, I encourage people to run twice/day on their easy days and run those easy days VERY easy. Then do long workouts twice per week, plus a weekend long run at an easy pace.

A typical week would look like this:

Monday: 3 mile warmup, 8-mile tempo run (marathon pace), 3 mile cooldown, with 6x100m strides
Tuesday: 4 miles morning, 5 miles evening (easy pace)
Wednesday: 4 miles morning, 5 miles evening (easy pace)
Thursday: 3 mile warmup, 6x1000m intervals (half marathon pace), 2 mile tempo (marathon pace), 4 mile cooldown, with 6x100m strides
Friday: 4 miles morning, 5 miles evening (easy pace)
Saturday: 20 mile long run (easy to moderate pace)
Sunday: off or 5 miles (very easy pace)
Total: 75-80 miles

Obviously you need to build up to this, but this is a very bland, generalized version of what I do. The main keys: run every day (unless you have religious objections to Saturday or Sunday), do two long workouts (over 90 minutes in duration), and keep your easy runs very easy to recover. It's nothing too complex, but you just need to put the time in, and you'll reap benefits.

If you're doing Columbus, I wouldn't push to do Memphis that soon. Just lay low, be patient, and train.

[AndyBrowning]

I think that Higdon's novice plans are very light on mileage and will only prepare you to finish the marathon.  The fact that you were able to get 3:18 with the novice plan indicates that you have a lot of potential.  Like Paul said, it is not the training schedule that will get you to Boston, it will be your dedication.  I recommend Advanced Marathoning by Pete Pfitzinger and Scott Douglas as a good resource and training guide. 

There really isn't enough time between Columbus and Memphis to implement any changes to your training.  It will mostly be recovering and maintaining the fitness that you currently have. 

[Jeff Linger]

Columbus marathon looks like quite a rolling marathon course, but total elevation variation of less than 100 feet. Times from last year were pretty fast with over 150 qualifying for Boston under the open division qualifier. This year's marathon uses a new course though. St Jude is December 6th also just a little over 100 feet total course elevation variation. But not as rolling with miles 5-10 all slightly uphill and then another climb from miles 14-18 with a mostly downhill finish from there. I'm not sure what kind of miles you've been logging or how long you've been logging those miles as I don't see a training blog site for you. My guess would be that if you've only run 2 marathons, and you're running less than 50-60 miles per week, which you undoubtedly are, given Hal Higdon Intermediate I program, that doing 2 marathons 7 weeks apart is probably too much and you risk injury. Most likely if you've been following Hal's plan you won't be going in overtrained and if 3:15:59 qualifies you, you're right there. Probably the most dependent factors on you doing well at Columbus are going to be proper fuel, hydration and rest (sleep especially) during your week leading up to the marathon. In terms of training, its not time to be making any alterations less than 2 weeks out. Get a proper taper in, eat the right foods, stay hydrated, but not over hydrated, get proper sleep and determine a pre-race strategy that works for your running style. Lay that plan out so that you're familiar with it prior to the race so you don't have to be calculating your adjustments during the race. Know your split markers say for every 5 miles or so. When I ran a 3:11 in my first marathon last spring I established a pace I wanted to be around through 3 miles (ave pace of 7:30s), and then a max-min per mile pace I wanted to hit for miles 4-20 (7:05-7:20), but didn't worry too much about clock, running mostly based on what I could maintain for the duration. Then it was gut it out time. I planned to hit a wall of sorts going into the final 10k and experience some sort of slow down, but miles 4-20 established a bank against the clock that I could pull from to hit my 3:15 mark. 3:15:59 comes out to 7:29s. If you feel you can establish a certain pace and maintain it mile after mile after mile, then I'd shoot for 7:20s, giving yourself the first 3 miles or so at a slower pace to get warmed up. Good luck!

[Sean Sundwall]

I am no fan of Hal Higdon. He is focused on people who run marathons just to say they have done a marathon. I am not saying his plans have no value to most on this board, but he promotes walking through parts of marathons which drives me nuts.

As Andy pointed out, I am a huge fan of Advanced Marathoning by Pete Pfitzinger and Scott Douglas. Don't be sacred off by the title. It's for any level of marathoner who wants to do more than just finish a marathon, but wants to compete and improve. Jack Daniels also has a fantastic book I reference often.

These are simply guides though. They offer A to Z plans which can be helpful, but they are most helpful in giving you ideas about speed workouts that will help you get fit.

Paul recommended doing "doubles" on easy days. I know a lot a people like to do that. The only time I do it is when I am trying to be in the 90-105 mpw range. It's the only way I can do it in six days. Also, I don't have the time to run 18-20 miles two or three times a week so I have to break it up. However, running twice a day can bring some logistical challenges as well. Two showers a day gets complicated if you are busy. Also, my philosophy is that if I can't go run for at least 6 miles at a time, I don't bother. A better way to look at that is in terms of time. If I can't commit to running for at least 40 minutes, I don't bother.

All this said, it really comes down to personal preference and personal schedule.

[Paul Petersen]

Two showers a day gets complicated if you are busy.

?? You take two showers? Geez, I think I'm doing well just by changing out of my running clothes.

[adam]

Two showers a day gets complicated if you are busy.

?? You take two showers? Geez, I think I'm doing well just by changing out of my running clothes.

Amen. Getting them to the wash and put back on clean again is another story.

[cdmorton]

Thank you so much for the tips.
I too, have felt that the Hal Hidgon guide was really just to finish.
I have actually run 7 marathons, with the first one back in  2004.
My first finish was 4:29 and then a few years later I went from 3:59 to a 3:18. I have only tried to qualify twice. Each were about a year apart.
Before my last 3:18 finish, I did a 16 mile grueling trail run two months prior and the ATL Marathon 4 weeks prior. Looking back I am just curious if that had a negative impact on race day.

I have been running 4-5 a miles 3 times a day with an 8 miler  added to the mix with a long run on Saturdays and recovery on Sunday.

I am not the fastest guy in town, but could be the most dedicated. If I have a plan I will stick to it and rarely, if ever back out of a run.

I personally feel like I could improve my routine if I knew what to try. In addition, I am really not sure what to do nutritionally. I don't eat a lot of fat and have a soda once a week with a snickers bar. Other than that, I am little or no breakfast, two bowls of cereal at lunch and something reasonable for dinner. However, all of these could be the wrong things to be eating.

I plan to run Columbus and give it my all and then follow up with Memphis as a fun run with a group of friends.
I would be open to another March/April race if that would give me enough time to truely implement a routine that would get me qualified.

I will get the Adv. Marathoning book and follow it to a T.
Does it have a weekly plan laid out in it?

[Sasha Pachev]

Some days I do not even bother with one shower.

I think given than both values of N and M fall into the range of being less than your body would get maximum benefits from then  N minutes is always better than M minutes if N is greater than M.  Suppose V is the training value of the workout, and T is the time. dV/dT is maximum when T=0 and then gradually decreases. Your run should ideally stop when dV/dT=0, because if you go further, the training value starts to go down (overtraining). In other words, you get the greatest benefit per minute in the first minute of your workout, less in the second, even less in the third, and so on and so forth. Running for 10 minutes a day beats being sedentary by much more than running 40 minutes a day beats running 30 minutes a day. There is a point which running more becomes counterproductive, and that is when your run should ideally stop.

So in short, if you have even as little as only 10 minutes to run, go for a run, do not skip that day.

[Sean Sundwall]

cdmorton...you are way beyond Higdon. Both the Daniels and Pfitzinger books have daily and weekly routines you can follow that will likely help keep you on track and come closer to maximizing your potential.

[AndyBrowning]

I will get the Adv. Marathoning book and follow it to a T.
Does it have a weekly plan laid out in it?

There are several training plans in the book but are all based on the same principles laid out in the book.  There are 12, 18 and 24 week plans for up to 55 mpw, 70 mpw and 70+ mpw.  The plans are good and you will benefit from following them but it is more important to read the book and understand what each workout is and why you are running it.  Good luck with your BQ attempt.

Prior to this year, most of my marathon specific training has been based on Pfitzinger's plans and I have really liked them.

[Jon Allen]

Some days I do not even bother with one shower.

Eww. 

I shower after each run, even if it is just 1 mile.  I really like showers.

[Kory Wheatley]

I have to shower after my double runs or I feel awful, and less confident about my appearance.

Hal Higdon's training is very basic, and not really for someone who wants to reach a higher level.  The books that have been suggested are very good to go by.  If I know I can get a run in and at least be out there for 20 minutes than I will do it.  Under that time frame it's really not worth it.

[Joe Furse]

Well, I just ran my first marathon last weekend and I spent the whole spring and summer just doing as much mileage as I could...that's not near as much as some of the guys here with tons more experience than me, but I worked up from 25 miles per week to just over 70 miles per week and then the last month I dropped down a bit and did more tempo runs and even some 800s mixed in with my mileage.  I could have done some things differently my last month and a half (it was kinda crappy) and done even better, but what I did got me a 2:53 for my first time.  I think like these guys all say, the key is just hitting the trail as much as possible without overdoing it/getting hurt and getting those miles under your belt.   Just my observations as a "newbie" to this whole marathon thing.

[Rhett]

Don't let Jo fool you, he is fast and lean.  I had the priviledge of running with him (for the first 15 miles) at the above mentioned race and even though it was his first, he has some serious potential to go fast.  More than I could ever dream of.  How old are you?  Do you need 3:10 or 3:15?  In the race this past weekend, I broke 3 hours for my first time (2:59:00) and averaged just under 40 miles/ week training and only ran 4 days per week.  I all my runs had a reason and a plan and none of them were junk miles, so you don't necessarily have to run twice a day and do all those miles as mentioned above.  As a matter of fact, my previous marathon before this past race was in April this year and I was going 70+ miles per week and my time was 3:15 and change.  I'm 37 though and my body just doesn't take to all that high volume training like someone in their 20s.  For me its about quality not quantity.  Good luck with your BQ goal.  Your close.  You just need to find what works for you.