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Michelle Lowry
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« on: July 12, 2008, 12:12:40 pm » |
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Hi all,
So I've put in my highest mileage week and some high quality workouts this week. I am wondering if you all have a take on what time I should be targeting for at DesNews. My speed sessions have been Tuesday, Thursday and today so you can look at my blog for those. I have never run the course and I want to race it aggressively without bonking--don't we all have that as a goal?
I am also thinking to do two hard workouts next week and another 20 miler (but this time all easy) and another 80 mile week, then one hard workout the week of DesNews (tuesday) with a pull back of miles of perhaps 65-70. Does that sound like too much before the race? The 10k is my most targeted 10k of the year so I do want to pull back some, but I also am a marathoner through and through.
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Paul Petersen
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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2008, 01:22:21 pm » |
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Michelle,
Be sure to check out the course tool. I mapped out the Des News course last year, and I think the tool's assessment of proper pacing is pretty accurate. So once you figure out your target pace, you can use the tool to figure out how to distribute your energy.
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Sasha Pachev
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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2008, 01:51:04 pm » |
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35:30 is within shooting range. However, do not worry about pacing. Just get into the race and race. Your body knows pacing better than your mind does. Run with about the effort you put into those mile repeats we did on Tuesday, a little bit easier maybe. Do not bring your Garmin. Every time you race with it it makes you 3 seconds per mile slower than what you would have run just by pacing off your competition. Especially being a girl with lots of men around to aim for.
Identify female or master male competitors at the start, and pace off them the first two miles, but not disregarding the feedback from your body. Bad idea to pace off a young man - the reason you can is most likely that he has not trained optimally, and if so he will pace himself improperly because of that. Err on the side of slow in the first 4 minutes of the race, after that it is OK to err on the side of fast (the truth is you cannot err on the side of fast very much after that). Then pick a man ahead of you and work on catching him. Once you pass him, pick the next one. Repeat until finish.
Do not worry too much about your projected finish as you go. It will be some respectable time, wait until the finish to find out what it is going to be. With the course being downhill nobody is going to take it seriously anyway, so just run fast and have fun.
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Dave Holt
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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2008, 04:04:22 pm » |
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Sasha do you think the Garmin thing just for Michelle for some reason, or do you think the same for everyone? I like racing with it to let me know my split pace. But I did try a local 10K without it hoping to focus just more on feel, and I struggled. Someday I may try it again, but I like the info it gives me.
Has anyone seen one of the "big dogs" run a race with a Garmin (they are so focused on racing/winning, they probably wouldn't like it)?
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Paul Petersen
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2008, 04:07:52 pm » |
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I think Kara Goucher wore a garmin for her 5K duel with Flanagan at Trials. Because she wore, she knew just when to kick...
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Steve Morrin
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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2008, 06:17:06 pm » |
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Is it really that much better to run with a garmin? I always feel that I race better when I race my competitors by feel rather than by time.
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Paul Petersen
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2008, 07:57:33 pm » |
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Is it really that much better to run with a garmin? I always feel that I race better when I race my competitors by feel rather than by time.
No. If you are truly competing, I wouldn't even wear a watch. If you are going only for time, and don't have coach handy to yell out splits, then a garmin is quite handy. At trials, I didn't wear watch; it just didn't matter. But at smaller road races I'll wear a garmin if I don't trust mile markers and am more concerned about pacing than placing. It all depends on what your goal for the race is. |
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Jon Allen
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« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2008, 09:21:59 pm » |
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I don't own a garmin, but I see how it could be useful in long races that don't have mile markers. In a 5k or 10k, run by feel. But in a marathon, you can easily go too fast and seeing your first few mile splits can keep you from starting too fast. Of course, most marathons have mile markers, so any old watch (like my Timex IronMan) works just fine.
The only time I have ever worn a garmin at a race was my 28 mile trail race last month. I wasn't worried about too fast of a pace (I knew I wanted to start slow and hang with the lead group) or even what my times were (irrelevant on a trail race). I just wanted the data so I would know how far I had run, how far the next aid station was, and to look at after the race.
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Michelle Lowry
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2008, 09:07:43 am » |
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Thank you all for your feedback. Here's the issue- I want to race those around me who I have a chance at beating. If I run solely to stay with the lead ladies, then I may run a 5:15 first mile then die. I have no one to help with splits and if I don't wear a garmin then I'll have to spend up to 60 seconds each mile calculating (I get dumb when I am running fast) if I want any split feedback. This takes me mentally out of the competition for up to 20% of the race, because there will be times I am calculating splits instead of focusing on form, the lady or man ahead, etc. Another thing is just that I feel comfortable with my garmin and haven't raced without it for a year. When I ran all this by my husband he asked me--"Now why wouldn't you wear the garmin?" I couldn't come up with a really good answer other than, "It's kind of geeky to wear a garmin in a shorter race. . . and perhaps I don't know if it's better to run with or without it unless I do both." I really don't know what I will do regarding the garmin from that perspective. It does make me sad that Sasha said that no one will care about the time since its downhill. If that's true, does it make beating my PR (35:48) meaningless? I care about the time and the placing. Top 5 get money and I like money  Also top 5 have incredible times, at least last year. I wanted to run with fast girls, that's why I am taking the time, effort and gas to go up to DesNews instead of doing the Speedy Spaniard 10k which I have done in years past. No one has responded yet to my question about my training up to DesNews. Any feedback on that part? |
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Scott Zincone
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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2008, 09:58:33 am » |
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I think Kara Goucher wore a garmin for her 5K duel with Flanagan at Trials. Because she wore, she knew just when to kick...
I thought maybe it was the big Jumbotron tv's that helped her figure it out. |
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Bonnie
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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2008, 10:00:52 am » |
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Hi Michelle,
I think that beating your previous time on any course is "meaningful".
What Greg McMillan generally has the people who are at "my level" do the week before a "non-key" but "important" race is cut back to about 75 - 80% in overall mileage, with the day before the race pretty short and a fartlek, longer strides, or short ( 2 -3 mile) tempo about 3 days out. Something a little faster, but not too hard, two to three days out really help keep your legs "fresh". In my opinion, I don't do as well with too drastic of a taper regardless of the distance (of course, I have yet to run a marathon).
See you soon!
Bonnie
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Josse
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« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2008, 06:56:04 pm » |
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OK are you ready for some extra spectacular addvice by me:) I know you and it would drive you crazy not to wear the watch and know what your splits are. And where this is one of your key races I think you need the feed back from a watch/garmin. I also think you rip it up without a watch as well. I like the Garmin because it pushs me (most of the time) in a race at the end when I am slowing. I can look at it as say to myself "I can go faster than that" and most of the time I can pick it up. I think what you have planned for training is a good plan. You are going to do great.
And for Sasha to say that no one will be watching or taking it seriously is hog wash. If you pull off a sub 36 plenty of people wil notice.
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Sasha Pachev
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« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2008, 10:46:56 am » |
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People will notice that you made top 5. Some people may gape their mouth open in a WOW over you running a fast time. But you will not get much recognition from serious race directors for the time as much as you would for your finishing position. That is just the dynamics of the sport. A fast downhill marathon time gets some respect. A fast downhill time in a shorter distance gets none. At least I've never been able to impress a race director with my 30:34 10 K in Magna or 1:07:03 half in Hobble Creek. I do not even bother putting those on my resume any more. But I've gotten lots of perks for 2:24:47 and 2:23:57 in St. George - comp, and hotel pretty much in any marathon I wanted to run. Even airport pickup.
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