Goose Egg Image contest

[Dave Holt]

Personally, I know that I have influenced the training of several people on the blog (whom I now live through vicariously, thanks), and managed to do it without humiliation tactics or other negative reinforcement.

That's what the blog is all about - getting knowledge from people like Paul, inspiration from people like Logan, and a love of running that hundreds of you, fast or just trying, display everyday.  Thanks everyone... that's why I blog.

[Adam R Wende]

That's what the blog is all about - getting knowledge from people like Paul, inspiration from people like Logan, and a love of running that hundreds of you, fast or just trying, display everyday.  Thanks everyone... that's why I blog.

I thought you did it for ZZ top and cheeseburgers? 

[Michelle Lowry]

I guess I'll add my vote - a definite no for the goose egg.  I think there is room on the blog for constructive criticism, but it should be individualized based off a relationship that has already been built.  A one size fits all automated negative feedback mechanism is more offensive than a friend commenting on your blog, "Did you get out today?"

[Laurie Pope]

I'm the slow runner, the person just building up miles, the person starting to do 6 days a week.  I want to improve, I want to finish before other races do, I want to be faster.  I like the positive eggs.  Getting a gold egg only if I do the 6 days a week, but if I missed one in a month, then a silver egg would be okay, but not great and then I know I need to stay on top of it the next month to get my golden egg. 

[Sasha Pachev]

Well, sounds like the majority vote is that a real goose egg at the end of a marathon is better than a token goose egg next to their public image when they choose not train. Odd choice, but I guess less work for me on the programming end of things.

[Maria Imas]

I have to say, this discussion is fascinating. At the risk of being in overwhelming minority, I will say that I would probably benefit from the goose egg. I can see what Sasha is trying to accomplish and I can also see why people object to this particular method. I know I have a tendency to get lazy, skip days, lose focus, etc., etc. I would welcome an extra accountability that comes with getting a goose egg image on my missed days. I would want to avoid it and take is as a challenge to see who wins every day - me or the egg. I like positive reinforcement, don't get me wrong, but I would get more kick in the butt from the egg, than from all the nice encouraging comments on my blog, or from getting a golden egg at the end of the month (that sounds so much like kids getting a sticker for done homework).

I wonder if there are some fundamental cultural differences at play here. Sasha and I grew up in the same culture, where negative reinforcement was quite strong, and where parents, teachers, coaches, etc. did not sugar coat things like they are in US (and many other countries). Saying things bluntly, even shaming, was quite common, we adjusted to it, and it was quite effective. I'm not saying this is the best method, but it works for me, at least in this case. I agree, though, that when majority of bloggers are from US, the egg idea is not going to be popular. But this difference is very interesting to me.

[Sasha Pachev]

Maria - that's what I thought. Russians use what Americans call "negative reenforcement" a lot. Some of it is too negative. But a lot is just a friendly jibe and telling you how it is in a helpful way and you here it and laugh at your own laziness or ineptitude along with the person who gave you the feedback. Americans are used to being told "good job" even when the job was no good, and in all honesty you did not try that hard. When I finish a bad marathon, I do not what to hear "good job", I want to hear "what happened, why so slow?" Even a little joke, "did you stop for lunch?" Then when I run well, and somebody nods and grunt, "hmm... that is respectable", that becomes a compliment of a very high value much higher than the standard American "outstanding" or "awesome", because I know the giver was not just trying to be polite, he told me the truth, and the truth was good.

[Jon Allen]

I am split- I think the goose egg idea in general would be bad.  But personally, I am a bit like Maria and may benefit a bit.  Hard to say.

I can't disagree that Americans in general have become used to avoiding negative reinforcement, almost at all costs.  And it may be beneficial at times, such as a parent telling their child that they are disappointed in them getting in a fight or failing a test when they should have studied and passed (i.e. when they choose poorly, not when they did their best but still came up short).  But in general, negative reinforcement should be used sparingly (and usually only when there is a well-established and strong relationship) and positive reinforcement can be used liberally.  Like you said, Sasha, positive reinforcement means a lot more when it is deserved and honest, but it is better to err on the side of positive than negative in my opinion.  If negative is needed (which should be very rare), individual comments are better than a machine-generated, automatic egg.

[Cheryl Keith]

I've been kind of fascinated by this discussion as well.  We are talking about running here, not our eternal salvation (although for some there may not be much differentiation. )  In other words, I think we are being overly sensitive about this.  If I get a goose egg, big deal, I'm not going to be offended or have my feelings hurt by that.  I save that for much bigger things.  I think I would appreciate the motivation to not get a goose egg and to make sure I got my run in for the day.  That's my proverbial two cents worth.

[Paul Petersen]

I actually don't care about the goose egg itself, it's more about the spirit of negativity behind it. More philosophical than pragmatic. Plus, I just like to argue with Sasha. I think arguing is some sort of Russian pastime, and he is very good at it.

BTW - Sasha often jokingly refers to the blog as "The One True Religion". That's where some of the religious-type expressions come from.

[Jon Allen]

Plus, I just like to argue with Sasha.

I think of them more as "spirited discussions" and enjoy them for the most part, as well.  It is interesting to hear other's viewpoints and the thinking behind them.  Even though we sometimes have to simply agree to disagree.

[Cheryl Keith]

So that probably explains what happened between Steve and Sasha on my blog the other day.  They just like having "spirited discussions" and there are no hard feelings.

[Josse]

Never hard feelings with Sasha.

[Dallen]

While we are at it we should find so other negative reinforcers.

-A big red DNF for anyone who drops out of a race.
-A broken bone for anyone who trains through an injury and loses months of running.
-Something for people who don't recover after a marathon or tough races/workouts.
-Maybe even a pitchfork for those of us who enjoy running on the last part of the weekend.

[Paul Petersen]

-Maybe even a pitchfork for those of us who enjoy running on the last part of the weekend.

Hilarious. I was thinking red flames, but pitchfork works too.