more Devine problems

[Chad]

Paul--could you put your GIS skills to work and figure out a loop course with the absolute minimum of elevation change?

Also--for the locally flavored post-race finishing object:  I would vote for an orange pedestrian flag.

[Sasha Pachev]

Chad - I can tell you without the GIS :-) N loops around the Liberty Park until you hit the marathon distance. Great spectator course too. Just need to manage traffic control so lapped people do not cause a road block. Maybe have a qualifying standard, let's say 5:00 in the marathon, 2:00 in the half, or 30:00 in the 5 K.

[Paul Petersen]

I think any loops smaller than about 10 miles would result in gridlock. 5 laps through Central Park worked with 150 fast runners, and made for a good spectator course, but would be lousy as a "real" marathon.

It's hard enough to run tangents as it is, and even harder when passing people.

But performing two big loops is a decent idea, as it would help get thicker crowds, and also cut down on the number of road closings and cops needed.

[Chad]

Ok, so how about a Salt Lake Marathon that is distinguished by its exclusivity rather than its attempt to sign up everyone in sight. Field limited to 150 or so runners, qualifying at a Utah marathon is given priority but anyone can qualify based on times at other selected races. Get great sponsors, give big $ to reward top performances.  Keep all other costs bare bones. Could serve as a state/regional championship of sorts.  Do it old school.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the big city marathon concept, but you can get that just about anywhere. For a race to really distinguish itself, it has to do something totally different but in a way that is true to the core of the sport. I bet there is actually a demand for a race that is highly selective--even if the course is difficult--because getting into the race is itself an accomplishment.

Then it's also easier to do relatively small loops and keep it flat and at least somewhat fast.

[adam]

Sasha Pachev's FastRunningBlog.Com Salt Lake City-Liberty Park Utah Marathon Championship Series Race for the Cure?

Sounds good to me.

[Josse]

Sasha Pachev's FastRunningBlog.Com Salt Lake City-Liberty Park Utah Marathon Championship Series Race for the Cure?

Sounds good to me.

You forgot /St. George Runnning Center!

[Chad]

Sasha Pachev's FastRunningBlog.Com Salt Lake City-Liberty Park Utah Marathon Championship Series Race for the Cure?

Pure genius. We just need to pick a date.

[Michelle Lowry]

And pick a race director.  I hear Paul Petersen has alot of free time nowadays. . .

[Paul Petersen]

Ok, so how about a Salt Lake Marathon that is distinguished by its exclusivity rather than its attempt to sign up everyone in sight. Field limited to 150 or so runners, qualifying at a Utah marathon is given priority but anyone can qualify based on times at other selected races. Get great sponsors, give big $ to reward top performances.  Keep all other costs bare bones. Could serve as a state/regional championship of sorts.  Do it old school.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the big city marathon concept, but you can get that just about anywhere. For a race to really distinguish itself, it has to do something totally different but in a way that is true to the core of the sport. I bet there is actually a demand for a race that is highly selective--even if the course is difficult--because getting into the race is itself an accomplishment.

Then it's also easier to do relatively small loops and keep it flat and at least somewhat fast.

Hmm...I'm warming up to this idea. Take the top 150 or 200 qualifying times and run then around Liberty Park a few times. Publicize it with grass roots - Letrun.com, YouTube, FloTrak (or whatever that is), The Final Sprint, FastRunningBlog (obviously). Finishers get a cotton t-shirt, but wear it with pride. Crowd support is optimal, overhead is minimal.

And pick a race director.  I hear Paul Petersen has alot of free time nowadays. . . Wink

Right. Actually Stacy has banned me from taking on new projects. All my free time is spent going to dr appointments anyway. You healthy people are the ones who have free time.

[Jon Allen]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-marathon3-2008jun03,0,5271555.story

More bad press for Devine.

[adam]

I like this idea alot. Bring it back to the old days when running a race like this meant something-- no money grubbin, no stamped out finisher medal-- just qualified, determined runners on a chalk starting line fighting for the finish, with family and friends around, and a BBQ after.

Something like this would be like the difference between a KFC in Utah, and real southern, off the side of the road, grama's sweet lovin cookin shack chicken-- Love, skill, and pride.

[Chad]

Hmm...I'm warming up to this idea. Take the top 150 or 200 qualifying times and run then around Liberty Park a few times. Publicize it with grass roots - Letrun.com, YouTube, FloTrak (or whatever that is), The Final Sprint, FastRunningBlog (obviously). Finishers get a cotton t-shirt, but wear it with pride. Crowd support is optimal, overhead is minimal.

With the right race director, race committee, seed money and publicity this could actually work.

[Jon Allen]

Kind of a "Utah and US elite" type of race.  Maybe do cross country scoring by state to see who wins!

[Paul Petersen]

Another idea: some sort of cool prize (cash or other) for biggest PR for male/female. So hypothetically, someone could place 30th or so, well out of prize money, but if they PR by 20-minutes, they get some sort of reward for that, or at least will be thinking about it during the race.

We could try this:
spring 2009 - "trial" run of the race. It is not advertised, but pretty much a blog and friends-of-the-blog event. Just word of mouth. Maybe we have a couple dozen, maybe we have 50, I don't know. Some sort of "entry fee" is charged, but it's essentially just a prize pot donation. Permitting and USATF certification will probably need to be done for the "trial", but other than that we wouldn't need much (minimal course markings, supplies, etc.). Whatever money entries bring in is recycled into the prize distribution by pre-set percentages (ie - if the race brings in XX, 1st place is worth xx percentage, 2nd place xx percent, etc.).  But the true purpose of the "trial" is to try out the course, get runner feedback on improvements, figure out if the thing will really "work", and start building a grass-roots base. Ragnar tends to do something like this for all of their races the year before they open registration and truly launch a given race.

spring 2010 - inaugural race. Website, logistics, maps, and other things have been in the works since 2008, and are now very polished by the time of official launch. Logistics, permitting, and supplies kinks are worked out, although the race is still very bare-boned. It's the opposite of a "rush job". Entry is capped at 150, and based entirely on a previous, USATF-certified marathon result (fastest 150 get in, the opposite of a random lottery). Age-grading could be considered? Obviously gender too, so maybe Top 100 men and Top 100 women or something. Or perhaps separate Men's and Women's races.

In the end, the race can be promoted as a "very cool" and prestigious thing to get into, an alternative for the 2:30-types who have been discouraged by the new O.T. standards, and essentially abandoned by the USATF. A "peoples' championship", if you will.

[Chad]

Paul--I like your style.  A couple more thoughts: First, the focus should always be on the athletes and making the actual race experience the best it can be. I really like the idea of a fastest come, fastest served entry format with some kind of age grading.  Perhaps just having two categories, open and masters would be enough.  Second, there won't be much money for travel stipends, but I bet we could rally 50 SL residents to put up an athlete or two.