more Devine problems

[Paul Petersen]

http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/05/20/las-vegas-marathon-in-financial-trouble/

These guys either need to learn how to put on a race or just give up. Was SLC Marathon better this year than previous years?

[adam]

June 15? Highly doubtful that a company that owes that much can pay it all off in 3 weeks. Not only is it not going to happen that day because they can't and blow people off all the time, but it's also a Sunday- so nobody is going to see whatever money might be given until after the weekend is over anyway.

When are they finally going to file bankruptcy, or get bought out, and end this stuff?

[Jon Allen]

I read some of the links from completerunning, and it makes it sound like lots of Las Vegas vendors don't want to deal with them anymore.  How would it be to show up at the starting line of a Devine race to see there were no bathrooms because no company would work with them?  I bet Devine wouldn't even mention it to the runners beforehand.  This just makes me appreciate locally run race even more.  I have never had a bad marathon experience (Top of Utah, St. George, Ogden, even Boston- is Boston locally run?) and I really appreciate paying $60 for the Utah races rather than $120 many marathons charge.  Thanks to all the local race directors!

[Sasha Pachev]

I don't know, I did not make top 5 :-)

I was able to find a secret bathroom at the start, so this did not give me a chance to evaluate the port-a-potties. The aid stations looked OK. The course was well-marked and protected by police. The mile markers were right on (probably thanks to Bill Cobler or Demetrio). Organization-wise they were fine.

Elite entry process was rather interesting, but since I knew the routine it did not bother me as much as it used to. Basically, it was this. You send an email to somebody in charge and get no reply. You call and nobody answers. You show up the day before, tell them who you are, fill out a form, and you are in.

I do not know why they have such a hard time paying up. I suppose their failure to pay the bills on time is a reflection of the general trend in our society to bite more than you are able or willing to chew and be casual about financial obligations.

[Josse]

I think they must be spending the money before they have it.  Instead of building it slowly and getting a good reputation.  That is how society is now days, eveyone wants it now.  When you are always playing catch up it will eventally catch up and result in bad things ei. bankrupcy.

[Paul Petersen]

The last I checked, they don't have a title sponsor, and that surely hurts.

[Dee Smith]

I ran Vegas in 2006 and it was a complete disaster.  The mile markers were off by as much as a half mile in places and there was no food at the finish line. The only thing I could find was warm water bottles.  I vowed I'd never do a Devine event again.  I ran the Salt Lake half this year, primarily because I got comped.  I thought they did a fine job with the organization other than there weren't enough porta potties at the start.

[Kory Wheatley]

I read about Devine's problems last week on marathonguide.com they really need to get their act together and pay up.

[Dallen]

I did a local 10K a few years ago where they promises sweatshirts to the age group winners. It never came. I didn't really want the prize, but it is just another example of why no one should support their races. I would rather bandit their race than give them an entry fee, not that I will openly condone such an action.

[Chad]

The problem is that revenues can't seem to keep up with their extraordinary overhead (staff, office space, billboards, full page newspaper ads, flying in a handful of African runners to give the race a higher profile).  No other local races do any of this to the same level.  Not even their attempt to sign up every single person in Salt Lake for some event or another can seem to generate enough $ to keep it fully operational.  However, to increase revenue, perhaps they could add a few new events for next year:  1) 3K ball bearing chase; 2) Marathoners v. Rollerbladers (the New Duel in the Sun); 3) "Motorist" Division (simply drive your car over the marathon course).

I wish that the "Salt Lake Marathon" felt like it actually had something to do with Salt Lake. It's an imported event designed exclusively to make money as a business venture.  In my view, it lacks the one thing that makes many local races fun  ... soul.  Oh, and maybe a few waterstops.

[Jon Allen]

Come on, Chad, tell us how you really feel.  Be honest now.

I definitely agree that (from what I hear) Devine tries too hard to "make" their race be great rather than let it grow by itself and good word of mouth.  And, I like the last comment that their XXXXX marathons [fill in the name of your city here] doesn't have anything to do with the town.

[Paul Petersen]

So...
Question: if you could design your "perfect" Salt Lake City Marathon, what would you do?
1. The route?
2. Ideal size?
3. Prize structure?
4. Nuances to make it truly "Salt Lake"?
5. Other gimmicks, features, and amenities?
6. Time of year?

We've done a lot of complaining, so now let's play "Sim Marathon" and design our ideal race.

Since there's been so much talk lately of prizes, I'll start with my ideal cash breakdown. (slightly inspired by Twin Cities).

Money 10 deep - $5000, $3000, $2000, $1000, $750, $500, $400, $300, $200, $100
Olympic Qualifier premiums for U.S. runners - $1500 for any male under 2:19, $1500 for any female under 2:4?
U.S. Development Premiums - $1000, $500, $250 for top 3 U.S. runners
Top local finisher (50 mile radius from SLC) - $500
Course record: $1000

For the route, I would need to give it some thought, but definitely a loop course in order to make it O.Q.-eligible. Whatever course you put in SLC will be very difficult to qualify on, but I think it's important to make the course eligible and leave no doubt in nay-sayers' minds that the course is "honest".

[Chad]

Paul--It is a real challenge to make Salt Lake an attractive "destination" marathon for elite athletes. It has a lot working against it from the start because the elevation will cause many to stay away.  Also, an abundance of "Salt Lake flavor" may not be as enticing to many out of state runners as we might think.  The best thing that can be done is build it from the ground up as an outstanding local event that really gets the support of the community. I think the "party marathon" thing has run its course and I would just get rid of that concept right away. (Who cares if Hootie and the Blowfish are playing a post-marathon concert?) The focus should be solely on the marathon race experience.  No 5k fun run, etc.  Just a marathon.

Salt Lake is not New York or Chicago, so we can't offer that concrete canyon experience.  I prefer the real canyons that we do have, but its hard to create a fast loop course and incorporate them. Thus, the truly vexing issue is that the best Salt Lake Marathon would be one that is hilly, difficult, and beautiful.  These days, though, people want a shot at a PR if they're going to bother running 26 miles, so it's a hard thing to pull off.

St. George does such a good job because they have their logistics down pat and they offer a beautiful course.  That's what makes a race "work"--you see all the nice things about a place, even while the little things you don't see make the whole thing  work smoothly.  An urban marathon is different from a desert marathon, obviously, but I would focus on execution over everything else.

I think you could map out a flat loop course, but it would likely have to be done in some relatively uninteresting part of the valley, making the course not so spectacular.  The trade off would have to be between a nice flat course and someplace where there is at least the possibility of spectator viewing.  Alternatively, you could design a course that overlaps itself so that the geographic reach wouldn't have to be so extensive.  If you did that, I think you could start and end a race in downtown.  Actually, the best place to start and end would be at the new City Creek Center development now being built downtown. The problem is that you will still have some kind of a climb on the return, though perhaps not a big one.

As far as paying runners, I think it's a great idea to have a generous prize structure that shows the race puts the athletes first.  I'll have to think more about other ways to add some "Salt Lake" flavor.  Maybe run it out by the GSL.

[Michelle Lowry]

How 'bout make all runners wear shorts to their knees and sleeves on their shirts   

Seriously, though, the State needs at least one race where OTQ is a possibility.  It wouldn't be a great shot because the altitude gets in the way, but at least have the race be OTQ eligible.  Paul left off master's prize money,
I think that Masters prize money should be at least three deep.  Since the overall number 5 finisher is $750, per Paul, shouldn't the top master's be $750 too, so maybe $750, 500, 250?  I'm not sure I'd want to see the top masters get more than the top 5 overall.

[Paul Petersen]

Oops, you're right. Yeah, your $750-500-250 breakdown sounds good for masters. BTW - all runners can double-dip into any prize category. So if a male master who is a U.S. citizen runs 2:18, wins the race outright, sets the course record, and is from Salt Lake, he would take home $9750.

Oh, and obviously no medals for finishers since that's obviously fundamentally flawed. We'd have to think of something better, something unique for finishers and age group winners. Something Utah. Maybe a commemorative pack of fry sauce?