Mileage - running vs. biking

[Josse]

This is a runner's blog, created by a dedicated runner, used primarily to inspire running improvement.  The mileage should be strictly running.  Maybe I'm a purist, but that's my vote.

If you look at some elite athetes they use other things such as biking, swimming, yoga, weights, and other things to help them achieve their level of running.  Don't think running is the only thing you need to do to improve and stay injury free.

[Adam R Wende]

Well if people are really having a problem with it I guess I can take down all my mileage, including the converted ones.

I second Josse and Jon. You need to do what it takes to get and stay healthy. That is the only way you can hope to run better. If that is only doing bike and swim miles working up to a marathon so be it. Don't take things on this blog personally. People are just stating their individual opinions as you are now. The point of the mileage board discussion is to get differnet points of view. I like comparing apples with apples and that is why I spoke up. In my view this discussion has nothing to do with what training one should or needs to do but how we track it and compare it. Keep blogging, keep logging and keep improving. Injuries wear on you both physically and mentally. My last injury I was out for three months. I only wish I had the devotion to have done cross-training. I didn't I just became a slob and it took me longer to recover. You are on the right path...

[Josse]

This is my last little plug on this.  But I think we need to support people, like Benn, who are using crosstraining as a way to recover from injury.  Or when people just use crosstraining as a way to make them a better runner.  Because we never know when an injury is learking around the corner and all we can do is log biking miles.  You might feel differantly then.

[Rambojr]

I know this is an old topic but I am injured and if I can't blog my cross training miles I won't do it! I will lay in bed and say whats the point, so the blogging helps me get out of bed and help keep my fitness while I'm injured. I cross train with an elliptical glider and I convert 10 minutes on it to 1 mile and I am clipping along at a pretty good pace! Some of these runners who only want to win the mileage board race seem to need a little bit of humble pie and realize that we are all trying to achieve the same thing; and that is to become better runners!!! I think that if someone is moving up the mileage board and is achieving it by running and cross training then more power to them:-)

This is just my two cents:-)

[Tom]

Clay I think most folks on the blog don't have much problem with logging cross-train miles if they are converted intelligently. I think the 10 minutes = 1 mile is about right, I do the same occasionally like today when I wanted to do some biking rather than easy running just to give my legs a break from the pounding.

I think what bugs people the most is when some bloggers log their bike miles at face value (i.e. I biked 30 miles so I log 30 running miles), which becomes pretty much meaningless/useless as far as looking back on the mileage and trying to gauge their training value.

[adam]

It all comes down to prefrence...when I was off for injury the first two weeks in june, I still cross trained for at least 1.5 hrs a day (biking, pool running, elipitcal) but didn't log any of it as running miles because I wasn't running. I just did it that way because that was about the same amount of time I was training before the injury. I don't really care if others log everything all up though as miles. That's their choice.

[Benn Griffin]

I would have used the Triathlete trainer's log since it allows you to put bike miles at face value and keep tabs on them without them influencing the running miles total.. however I guess I upgraded too high and it is no longer an option for me to change it so now I have to make do with conversion in the xtraining column. My main concern is just being able to tally up just how many miles I've biked this year.  Maybe I should make a separate cycling log? What are everyones thoughts on this? It stinks but that way I could still keep tabs on how many miles I am biking I guess. All this conversion is getting a bit confusing!

ALso, I understand people's annoyance at certain runners that log bike miles at face value. Kind of disheartening to see someone cheat to get the top of the mileage board and steal the glory away from a guy that ran a 100 mile race the other week. What a great representative of the running community and comraderie there.

[Cutika99]

This reminds me of an argument about global warming.

I personally think it is laughable to record biking miles on a running board. Here's something to keep in mind, for everyone.

We are all looking for respect, looking for recognition, looking for validation that what we do is noted. Whether it be work, running, physical attributes, etc. The problem with recording biking miles is that it discounts the runners who are attempting to attain recognition for their mileage accomplishments. People will feel slighted (and they probably are) when things like this happen.

Or maybe it's just a cyclical thing?

[Scott Zincone]

How come cross training miles show up on the Mileage Board anyway.  This would solve the problem.  Then cycling miles can be entered without converting to "running" miles.  I see nothing wrong with logging all of your fitness endeavors.  Whether it be cycling, swimming, push ups, crunches, or core exercises. 

Change the programming to display running miles only and all will be well on the blog....until the next disturbance !

Of course I no idea how difficult it may be to reprogram it.  If it turned out to be a large undertaking I would not blame Sasha for ignoring it all together.

[Sasha Pachev]

This whole discussion is pushing me in the direction of getting rid of the mileage board altogether. I do not want to encourage runners to go for recognition on the mileage board. There is only one type of recognition - run fast in a race. Never forget that. There is no recognition for speed work, long runs, mileage, heart rate, average daily run pace, number of times you run per day, number of miles you put on a pair of shoes, number of people you pass during a weekend run, or the number of training partners you have dropped in a workout. You do what it takes to make YOU fast and you leave the other guy alone. If you have a matter to settle with him, race him. Base mileage is essential, but how much and in what combination varies individually. Do not lose the focus.

I am very concerned that too many people are taking the mileage board too seriously. Your team privileges do not depend on your position on the mileage board, and I will never offer money or any other award to the top ranking mileage boarder. If anything, more often than not being too high up on the mileage board means you were stupid enough to have run more than you should, or as in Cheston's case, the count was inflated. I do not want to see any resemblance of striving for position on the mileage board. Strive for position on the Top Runners list instead.

From now on I will ignore all messages of the kind "Runner X is unfairly ahead of me on the mileage board". The moment you even think that you've lost your focus, you are starting to care about what does not really matter in the end. This just wastes time. The time you spend writing that message should have been spent helping a less experienced runner. The time I spend replying to those should have been spent improving the blog and helping less experienced runners as well.

[Jon Allen]

Sasha- I certainly understand your frustration.  And I agree that we should not worry about "so-and-so is ahead of me" on the mileage board.  Personal satisfaction and enjoyment from the joy of being able to run should be all the reward we need.  Like they said on Cool Runnings: "A gold medal is a wonderful thing. But if you're not enough without one, you'll never be enough *with* one."

I would vote that you keep the board, though.  My primary reason is that it makes it very easy to do a quick check on where many of my friends and teammates are in their running.  From just one page, I can get a feel for how much they are running.  If I notice they are not running much, I can go to their individual page to give encouragement or to see if they are injured/sick.  It takes much longer if I have to go to all of their pages individually.  Just my two cents.

[Adam R Wende]

Sasha, I'm sure I am part of your frustration and I am sorry for that.

My argument is that if you take a bunch of competitive people and put them together they will be competitive. This should not come as a surprise. However, I do not use the mileage board to see who I'm ahead of or behind of. I use it the same way Jon does. I look at it and like to see all the familiar faces around. If I see a new name I check them out or if I see a name is missing I track them down to find out if something is wrong. The whole key to this argument is that some standard needs to be enforced.

I would go back to my initial suggestion on the poll I put forward earlier this year and if you want to cater to the broader audience for your "world domination" I would suggest not only keeping the current Running Mileage Board, but also adding in a Biking, Swimming, and Cross-training board. I think this gives everyone something to be happy about and feed their competitive edge.

In this case I think the way Steve put's it is best "We are all looking for respect, looking for recognition, looking for validation that what we do is noted." I also agree with Scott though that "If it turned out to be a large undertaking I would not blame Sasha for ignoring it all together."

However, if that became the case and you chose to continue having the mileage board I continue to stress that this problem will not go away unless you filter it in a way that makes the total reflect some kind of standard that means something.

If like you say "There is only one type of recognition - run fast in a race." Then why have the mileage board, and I agree get rid of it. However, why have the counter on the top of our blogs then. There are many aspects of this blog that are set-up in a way that promote competition and recognition in many other forms than just how fast you run.

I know that for the vast majority on the blog they can run faster but they cannot all be as fast as Paul, Seth, Katie, or Michelle. So they pick more attainable goals on their way to getting faster. I agree that the argument and the degree and amount of time wasted on this particular debate has been out of hand for awhile now. I know I myself have wasted a good 3 or more hours on this topic. My wife has started to intervene in a way that she thinks the blog is bad for me. I’m a compulsive person though and if I feel strongly about something no matter how minute I keep at it until it is resolved. This is a bonus in the marathon but a bad personality trait when it comes to things like this.

In the end though, something needs to be done about this. By the share volume of replies and number of people that have commented here and on Cheston's blog about the topic in general this obviously matters to many people. I’m sure most people don't care but it is obvious that the few of us that do care feel very strongly about it. Good luck with whatever decision you finally make (removing the board, filtering the board, or adding alternatives). And as always thank you for the blog and dealing with us all when we are being whiney children...

[Paul Petersen]

If you have a matter to settle with him, race him.

You have insult my honor! I challenge you to a 100m dash! Nothing like a good old fashioned footrace to settle things. Wasn't that a Seinfeld episode?

I am very concerned that too many people are taking the mileage board too seriously.

I'm more concerned about global warming, war in Iraq, and healthcare reform. But if Obama or McCain came up with a good plan to fix our mileage board crisis, it could potentially swing my vote.


Sure, get rid of the whole mileage board. Get rid of the whole blog too. It's entirely too controversial.

[Jon Allen]

You have insult my honor! I challenge you to a 100m dash!

Paul, seeing as you are still partly injured, right now is my best chance to beat you.  I challenge you to a duel tomorrow!  Because if I beat you, I will somehow be a faster runner than you, or a better person, or more of a man, or have the hairier chest, or something like that.  Right? 

Oh, and don't forget about the state of Social Security and the national debt, offshore drilling, housing, Guantanamo Bay, and a new national speed limit...

[Adam R Wende]

A new national speed limit ( ). Get your laws off of my gas guzzling...