Ted Leblow
Posting Member
Posts: 131
"Don't give up...don't ever give up." - Jimmy V.
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« on: September 25, 2007, 06:01:59 pm » |
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Ok, I think there is enough bloggers that we can form several good pace groups at St. George. So feel free to use this to coordinate plans.
I think we have a good group that could hit the first half between 1:16-1:18 so I propose a first half group to target this range. I think the following could jump in this group:
James (MonaFlash)
Jeff (jtshad)
Kory
Cody
Me (ArmyRunner)
Dustin
S Browning
Chad
Bill (BC)
I know all in this group are capable looking at their training. Are there any others? Let us know if everyone wants to plan to run together with this goal. I am thinking 1:17 first half but definetley between 1:16-1:18.
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James Winzenz
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« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2007, 06:12:06 pm » |
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I propose another pace group for hitting about 1:35-1:37 at the 1/2 - staying together after the 1/2 based on how everyone is doing. I think that Brent is planning on running with me, but any others that are shooting for this time? I had previously considered running with the Clif Bar pace team, but I am not going to try for 3:10, and want to run faster than 3:20, and would actually prefer to run with a group of people I know (at least through this blog).
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Dustin Ence
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2007, 09:14:13 am » |
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I get fired up looking at Ted's pace group. I don't know if I'm in that kind of shape to run that fast right now, but I guess it would be better to go out and try and fail, than be left with wondering all winter "if only I had tried to go with those guys"
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Paul Petersen
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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2007, 09:41:47 am » |
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I've read various statements on energy savings for running with a pack, anywhere between 1.5% and 6%. It might be similar to what you get on a treadmill, plus the psychological benefits. In 2005 I had the choice of running a bit "out of my range" and stay with a pack of 10, or run comfortably but by myself. I chose the pack and PR'ed by 9 minutes, and placed higher than I ever dreamed.
I figure a pack is very important for the first 14 miles of the race, but once you hit Snow Canyon, all bets are off.
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Dustin Ence
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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2007, 10:17:24 am » |
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I always look forward to getting "Paul's Perspective" on topics and this helps ease my mind a little on this pace group idea. A couple of things I enjoy reading about on this forum are Sasha Science and now Paul's Perspective as I would like to call it.
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Chad
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2007, 10:31:47 am » |
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I'm in for the pace group, Ted. I think Chris Rogers may also be in that range.
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James Winzenz
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2007, 11:03:52 am » |
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I would love it if one year I was able to get in with a group this fast - maybe a couple years down the road . . .
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Sasha Pachev
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2007, 01:59:47 pm » |
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Ted:
I think your group should split. You should hit no slower than 1:16 in the first half, and take anybody with you who has enough speed/guts to be there.
James - if 3:10 is not in the cards, the only way to run 3:20 may very well be to go out with the 3:10 group. One thing I am quite certain about is that you are very unlikely to negative split unless you run way slower than your potential. Go out with the fastest group whose pace feels comfortable, and do not be afraid to drop 3:10 group if the pace feels too painfully slow. On the other hand, I am not 100% sure the official pace groups adjust for the profile of the course, does anybody know if they do?
I'll try to put together the standard B pace group. People on the blog I think should be there:
Logan
Dave Holt
Steve Ashbaker
Clyde
Mike Kirk
Bob Thompson
Additionally, I will invite Jeff McClellan, Matt Harmer, Iain Hunter, and Mike Vick to be there. Mike Dudley will probably want to go with the A group, but if I'll ask him just in case.
The plan is to play it by ear, but lean on the faster side, low 1:11 through the first half, but no faster than 1:10:40. This works as a compromise between the different ends of pack - the guys that say B, but think maybe A and the ones that lean towards 2:25, but want to be able to sleep in peace until 2012 Trials window opens knowing they've honestly done their best. St. George can be survived if you start a minute faster than what you ideally should, and that minute will be a lot easier on your body when you know you are on pace for OTQ, and running with a pack, so if you pay for it at all, it may be no more than 30 seconds. On the other hand, if you get to the half in 1:11 and your horses are neighing, you can easily run standard A. James Lander did that last year.
It is OK if somebody just wants to fetch a ride to Veyo or a bit past it then back off. Even if you cannot take leads, it helps when somebody is there breathing down your neck. This is essentially what I did last year. I was not ready to run OTQ, and I knew it, but I still went with the pack. We were all together going up Veyo. I was with somebody who ended up running 2:18 with more than 7 miles into the race, I ended up with 2:25:32, and I do not regret in the least bit that I did not run 2:24:50.
To put another plug for Paul's Perspective, I was right there with him in 2005, he dropped me even though he thought he was out of his league, and I do not regret being there at all. I do not think I could have run any faster otherwise, but even if I could, I would not trade that pack experience for maybe a minute faster.
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James Winzenz
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2007, 02:25:43 pm » |
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Last time I ran with the official pace group, they were staying right on pace, the only place they adjusted for a bit was Veyo. Were you saying you think I should go ahead and go out with the 3:10 pace group with Clif bar as long as I can and then either speed upor slow down based on how I feel?
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Chad
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2007, 03:09:17 pm » |
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I know all in this group are capable looking at their training. Are there any others? Let us know if everyone wants to plan to run together with this goal. I am thinking 1:17 first half but definetley between 1:16-1:18.
Ted, what's your finishing time goal?
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Cody Draper
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2007, 03:25:54 pm » |
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Ok, I think there is enough bloggers that we can form several good pace groups at St. George. So feel free to use this to coordinate plans.
I think we have a good group that could hit the first half between 1:16-1:18 so I propose a first half group to target this range. I think the following could jump in this group:
James (MonaFlash)
Jeff (jtshad)
Kory
Cody
Me (ArmyRunner)
Dustin
S Browning
Chad
Bill (BC)
I know all in this group are capable looking at their training. Are there any others? Let us know if everyone wants to plan to run together with this goal. I am thinking 1:17 first half but definetley between 1:16-1:18.
I see a full 10 minutes between some of these people. It may work, but more likely I see the group splitting into two. There will those who are shooting for low 2:30 and those who would be happy for 2:35-2:40. I could name names (I am in the slow group), but that is not the point. My only fear is to go out too fast in that pack and blow up on Veyo or after. I do see the benefits of the pack but I do think that two of them is a smarter way to go. But on the other hand, I would love to hit 1:17 at the half and still have gas in the tank for another. The only way that will happen is in a pack. Hmmmmm |
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Kory Wheatley
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2007, 03:26:50 pm » |
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Hmm, 1:16 - 1:18 I guess I won't know if I can do it unless I try. I wish I had experience on the course.
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Craig Green
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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2007, 03:33:50 pm » |
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Kory- maybe this is too slow, but...
Are there any people out there that are going to finish in the 2:45-2:55 range? I consistently hit this, and I do the first half in about 1:23-1:24. So I'm looking for a slower group than the 1:16-1:17 group, but faster than the 1:35 group. I have another guy (Chris Pope) who's going to run it in about 2:55. I'm right about 2:50 this year. Our first half should ideally be 1:24.
Craig G
Chris P
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Anyone else?
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Cody Draper
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« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2007, 03:38:05 pm » |
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Kory- maybe this is too slow, but...
Are there any people out there that are going to finish in the 2:45-2:55 range? I consistently hit this, and I do the first half in about 1:23-1:24. So I'm looking for a slower group than the 1:16-1:17 group, but faster than the 1:35 group. I have another guy (Chris Pope) who's going to run it in about 2:55. I'm right about 2:50 this year. Our first half should ideally be 1:24.
Craig G
Chris P
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Anyone else?
Dan Should be between 2:50 and 2:55. |
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Kory Wheatley
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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2007, 03:52:04 pm » |
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Kory- maybe this is too slow, but...
Are there any people out there that are going to finish in the 2:45-2:55 range? I consistently hit this, and I do the first half in about 1:23-1:24. So I'm looking for a slower group than the 1:16-1:17 group, but faster than the 1:35 group. I have another guy (Chris Pope) who's going to run it in about 2:55. I'm right about 2:50 this year. Our first half should ideally be 1:24.
Craig G
Chris P
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Anyone else?
Craig: I'll probably stick with the 1:16 - 1:18... I've always have taken the conservative way maybe now its time to have confidence in myself and go for it. I can always back down. I know that mile 7 through 11 will be the real challenge with the steep climb. |
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