Need some advice

[TODD KELLY]

Ok Sasha or anyone out there that can help me out.  I am training for Ogden and I have done more miles every week then ever before.  I took the building of the base miles and added in some speed work every week and I only take Sundays off.  This week I ended at 62 miles.  My question is when I trained for my other 18 marathons I had more rest days in between and on my longer runs I fealt pretty good.  This go around when I get to that long run, (like the 18 I just ran)  I was feeling tired more because of the every day running.  Is it normal to feel like this and will it get better as time goes on.  I have added more miles every week and I am really wanting to break 3:15 at Ogden.  My best is 3:23.   Also should I  try to get up to 10 a day and then long runs at the end of the week. What about taper for Ogden?  Do you have any good suggestions for a good taper.  Thanks for all your help guys and gals.         

[Jon Allen]

Todd- I have found that I am definitely more tired the first time I push my body to a new mileage high.  Once I maintain the mileage, though, and especially once I reach that mileage on the next race cycle, I feel much better.  So yes, it will get better and is normal.  If you can build up to 10 mile days, do it, but don't get yourself injured.  Then, do a good taper and you should feel energized and confident for Ogden.  More miles (and tired legs) now will result in better race times.

As for taper- there are lots of good discussions at these links: http://fastrunningblog.com/forum/index.php?action=search2

I would suggest a 2 week to 10 day taper if you aren't injured.  Ask again once we hit May, if you want.

[Sasha Pachev]

Todd:

I did notice a few things in your training that I would like to adjust, but I cannot argue with the results of your 18 mile run. You were still on pace for a 3:05 marathon when you finished in spite of running a 5 K PR in the opening miles, which would anywhere between impossible and suicidal. Well, rule out impossible since you've done it. That done on top of a high mileage week. Are you sure you even need a taper? I am saying it only half in jest. When a runner ramps up the mileage he often experiences a quick surge in aerobic fitness that is still quite volatile and could disappear if that mileage is cut back for as little as two weeks.

You are frequently on pace for your half PR in a training 10 miler run. I would guess if you were to race a half right now it would be at least 1:25.

So I would not worry about fatigue. Who cares if you feel tired if you are able to hit supersonic speeds?

Now that does not mean you should hit those speeds just because you can. It is a good idea to ease off on the pace and err on the side of caution. Jeff McClellan and I run about 30 seconds per mile slower than you on our easy runs. This is not because we can't go faster. Rather, it is to make sure that the energy spent is worth the stimulus received. Slowing down the pace of an easy run opens the door for two things: a) You can run more miles with the same level of stress but receive greater aerobic stimulus and b) You are able to hit faster pace at the same cost in a speed workout and receive greater neuromuscular stimulus.

Between now and Ogden just do not blow it. Train reasonably and conservatively. Run slower than what you think you should, and do not push the distance past what you have already done so far. Quarters on the track are probably detrimental. They were likely the reason 19:00 5 K at the start of your 18 mile felt easy. This happens because your body learns to attain perceived ease of pace at a high energy cost. You do not want that in a marathon when your limit is fuel. If the limit is neural drive, it is a different story, quarters would be helpful, but from your workouts and performances it appears that you are very very far away from hitting the limits of your neural drive. For speed, just close your long runs strong. See if you can run the last 2 miles at 6:00. That should be sufficient.

[April G]

A 3:15 Todd?  I am no expert but after looking at your training speeds I am thinking you got something faster than a 3:15 in you!  If I was training so comfortably at those speeds I would be looking for a 3:05 at least. 

[TODD KELLY]

Thanks Sasha, Jon, and April for the input.  Yes I will run the Ogden half this saturday for the training circuit just to see where I am at, plus it gets me a chance to train a little on the course.   

[Sasha Pachev]

I will go on record and predict 1:22 if the conditions are not windy, otherwise 1:24.

[TODD KELLY]

Thanks Sasha, yes that looks about right.  I ran my 10.12 today and finished it in 108:03.  So looks good so far, I was even more amazed that I held off at the beginning and at the end had alot more energy for a couple miles at 6:10 and 6:15 pace.  I even had a head wind for the last 5 miles, so if the wind is not blowing I think it is definitley reachable. Looks like a PR for the half Saturday morning hopfully.   Thanks for your help.

[TODD KELLY]

Or one heck of a snow storm. lol