MarkP_
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« on: September 15, 2009, 11:34:04 am » |
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A quick question: I'm curious to know how many sub 3:00 marathon runners actually use Gu or some sort of gel during a marathon. I know the majority of slower runners use gels, mainly because they are out there for a longer period of time. Please let me know if you do or do not.
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« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 01:52:18 pm by Red Dragon »
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Paul Petersen
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2009, 11:53:18 am » |
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GUI = Graphical User Interface. I wish I could use one, instead of having to run it myself.
But I'm assuming you mean "Gu". Yes, I usually take two gels during a marathon, 1/3 and 2/3 of the way through the race. Anything shorter than a marathon, I do not take food, since fueling isn't an issue for races shorter than 2 hrs. I also try to take sports drink instead of water, for both the carbs and the electrolytes.
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Sasha Pachev
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2009, 01:14:43 pm » |
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I never use GU. Two reasons. One - one time I tried and ended up with the worst marathon finish since coming to the US. Two, I do not feel like reading the labels of the stuff they hand out to make sure it has no caffeine.
I've been thinking on my fuel experiences and observations, and a rather radical thought occurred to me. If you are planning to run under 2:20 and fuel intake during the race makes a difference, you've blown it already. It could help you run 2:30 and maybe even 2:28 instead of 2:35-2:40, but if you can run sub-2:20 at all you'll be able to do it with no mid-race carb intake. If you run out of fuel while on pace for 2:20, there is no refueling that could save your race to the point of reaching the target. This is because you can only go that fast off fats and blood sugar. Probably the fastest anybody could run with no muscle glycogen is 5:40 per mile.
I might be off on the 2:20 threshold number, and it might vary from runner to runner - it could be anywhere from 2:15 to 2:30. But the basic idea is that really fast marathon times are achieved primarily off muscle glycogen with maybe only the last 3 miles run off blood sugar. Which you normally would have enough of to coast for 3 miles if you had to even with no fuel intake.
If somebody knows a whole lot about rates of blood sugar absorption/metabolism in the muscle vs fat vs how the three (muscle glycogen, blood glucose, and fat) interplay and has some insights on those the ideas, feel free to share.
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Superfly
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2009, 01:59:35 pm » |
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I always take GU. Usually 2 but have taken 3. The new Roctane stuff from the GU brand is great. You have to find the flavor that works for you. Once while running the Teton Dam marathon I took some different flavor at mile 18 and barfed all over in front of an aid station with a bunch of high school girls. They were screaming... I was bugged because no one likes to puke during a race.
But long story short you really need the energy during a marathon and GU is a easy way to refuel. Practice with it first...
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Steve P
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2009, 02:29:18 pm » |
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I don't know how people can gag down the GU. I tried that in my last marathon, and it was pretty nasty stuff. Maybe I just got the wrong flavor, but the thought of it sliding down my throat still makes me want to gag.
I've been experimenting with gummies that are made by the same companies that make the gels. They taste much better to me and are less messy.
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jtshad
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2009, 04:50:47 pm » |
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I have taken gels (Gu, PowerBar Gel, HammerGel, etc) at all of my marathons. I average about 3-4 but have taken as many as 6 (PF Chang's) when I was really crashing. Usually 3 works for me along with the Powerade on the course to help with fuel management.
The trick in taking the gels is a visualization thing...think of chocolate flavored ones as if they are frosting, straberry/banana as yogurt...helped me a lot!
I find they are easier and less messy than the gummies as I had problem trying to chew and choke down the gummies while running hard and having the remants stick to my teeth was annoying.
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Bonnie
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2009, 05:14:02 pm » |
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I generally take 3 gels for a marathon (one for a half) - but keep an extra close, just in case of an emergency.
The PowerGels are pretty liquid and less sticky, they have electrolytes in them, and I have even taken them without water in a pinch (here in the desert) ... and the ones with caffeine are clearly marked on the package.
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Dustin Ence
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2009, 05:15:22 pm » |
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I usually take two gels (right now I prefer the Cliff brand chocolate flavor) like Jeff said just think of it as candy. Worst experience I had with gels was at Boston, it was my second marathon ever and I had like six gels, way too many had stomach problems much of the race. I've also used the Sport Beans which I thought tasted great, but a little difficult to open and eat while running fast (the first few times I dropped more beans on the ground than I got in my mouth) Which brings up another point. In my experience, it is always better to slow down a bit and get the proper fluids and gels, whatever works for you rather than trying to blow through the aid station.
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Dallen
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2009, 06:23:45 pm » |
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Don't forget the standard rule of not trying anything new during the race. New type/flavor of gel = guaranteed GI distress.
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allie
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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2009, 07:59:33 pm » |
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not to sound negative, but honestly, i HATE the stuff. i have had some horrible experiences with it...my stomach just doesn't tolerate it at all. i went through TOU 2008, SLC 2009 and DesNews 2009 without any fuel at all. i did try some gu in desnews because i was feeling a crash coming, but i immediately puked...nice.
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Aaron Clement
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Posts: 10
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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2009, 09:38:21 am » |
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Actually, I don't think the really fast runners use gels at all... but I know a lot of runners with times around 4hrs plus use gels (friends from my club etc.). I guess they're just on there feet for less time and so don't need gels... it is an interesting topic, though... from personal experience, I've tried running 27km on water only, but find I am pretty exhausted at the end... but when I use electrolytes halfway, I don't get the exhaustion afterwards... I guess it's just a matter of training... I hope to rely less and less on the electrolytes and gels as my fitness increases... i think this will happen only over time.
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Jon Allen
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« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2009, 10:22:54 am » |
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I use 2-3 Gu's most marathons, plus gatorade at the aid stations.
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MarkP_
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Posts: 43
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« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2009, 11:49:58 am » |
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I should preface my question a little. I had some success this year "weening" myself on hydration during runs. I believe it helped me immensely during my marathon. I still took water and sports drink, but only one quick gulp of either/or (I know many things factor into your hydration needs during the race, but I still thought it would help). In regards to sport gels, I'm not sure how much they have helped me during marathons. I've been slower the last 5-10K of almost all my marathons with or without gel. I have not hit the "wall" since my first marathon in 2003, its just the last part of the race is always difficult (and probably should be).
We hear all the time that over 2 hours of running that you need energy replacement, but I wanted to know from the fast, local, elite guys/gals if they actually do it. The responses have been great. It seems most do and this will push me to modify my training to try and get 1-2 gels down during a marathon.
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Paul Petersen
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« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2009, 12:10:31 pm » |
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For what it's worth, I don't take water, poweraid, or gel during long training runs. I just run. I figure it will teach my body to do without. But during the actual marathon race, I take all those things. I figure if nothing else, it will help with recovery.
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Sasha Pachev
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« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2009, 12:23:42 pm » |
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I can do a hard near all out 20 untapered with nothing and no fuel/hydration issues if I am in good shape, and I eat well the three days prior. Which is one reason I am wondering if carb intake is necessary for a sub-2:15 if you have it in you that day at all. In 2003 I ran TOU off soymilk, oats, and bananas mix for fuel. I think I had three very small bottles at 10, 13, and 16 if I remember right. Also some water at 23. Same deal in St. George two weeks later. The times were 2:27:46 and 2:24:47. I believe the TOU time to be the highest quality marathon I had ever run.
At the time I thought my drink was meeting my fuel needs. Now after some other experiences I am thinking I simply did not have a whole lot of fuel needs for most of the race. I ran the glycogen levels down pretty low, but never so low that I could not break 6:06 on a rolling terrain. But being not quite in as good of a shape running a slower pace I run them down much quicker, so I have to take whatever I can get to avoid a complete disaster in the last 8 miles.
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