Reality of Running at Top Level

[Sasha Pachev]

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/09/08/sports/8-solomon.txt

Quotes:

Brett Gotcher : "I mean for me right now, $8,000 is life changing. That’s my yearly salary right now at the print shop, so this is definitely a big positive for me"

His coach Greg McMillan (the one that has the famous McMillan calculator): "You have to understand that most of our athletes live at or below the poverty level, A lot of people don’t know that, but distance runners coming out of college, most of them are pretty poor. So when they can have a day like Brett had today, that changes their world."

I am posting this to again draw attention to some poorly understood facts:

a) A runner is not likely to succeed as a runner if he chooses to immerse himself in the standard flow of the US work careers.
b) Only top 20 (possibly not even that) runners in the entire country (population over 300 million, one of the highest income levels per person in the world, mind you) have a shot at living above the poverty line earning money with their legs alone.

I think we can do better than that. If enough people cared, we could do something that allows an OTQ guy to not have to worry about what he is going to eat if he decided to train and race at his full potential. But, as a group of runners, we obviously just plain do not care. If we did, we would be seeing quotes like that from runners of that caliber (Brett just strung together 2 10 Ks averaging under 29:30 each, or in other words 4:44 per mile for over 12 miles ). I have wondered if this is because we do not know, we do not understand (my hope), or that we just plain outright do not care about anything else than our own performance, some food at the end of a race, and the raffle prize.

[Michelle Lowry]

I care about this, but I also care about world wide poverty, ignorance, and suffering in general.  These issues, and the ability of runners to sustain themselves, are in my circle of concern.  They are not in my circle of influence, though.  If I made extreme sacrifices (like only running races that exactly fit my definition of acceptable pay for winners) I still would not change the system, so I have little influence.  I am more pragmatic.  My son doesn't eat his crusts of his bread, I can't end world hunger by sending them to the local soup kitchen, so I encourage him to eat the crust, and if he doesn't, I throw it in the trash.  (No I don't compost it, I'm just not up to that, either).  I am just not up to fighting every battle.

[Dallen]

Sasha is making a good point, but truthfully our country will never care. Nobody will ever pay $100 for a nosebleed seat at a track meet. Running is boring. Always has been, always will be.

I don't pretend to understand all of Sasha's thinking, but I think that he believes that we could compete with the Africans if we supported out athletes better.  I argue that we already support our developing athletes much much better than any other country. First, nearly every kid grows up with access to health care and relatively good nutrition. Then, every kid has the opportunity to be on a high school team and recieve free coaching. Then, 6668 boys and 8901 girls get NCAA scholarships (googled that) where they get free good coaching, free room and board and a free education.  Yes, after 4 or 5 years we dump them on the street, but by this time the best should have been weeded out and have opportunities for endorsements and mild prize money. Some people will fall through the cracks, but that is a whole lot of support in my opinion.

[Jon Allen]

I see both sides of the issue. 

On one hand, it is sad we spend so much money on some athletes (pro football, baseball, etc) but not others.  But that is really about entertainment, not sports.  95% of sports and 99% of athletes cannot earn a living from their sport- that is just how the world is, running is not unique.

On the other hand, the reason there are so many Kenyans running in America is because it is one of their best opportunities to earn a living.  For many Americans, however, they have the educational opportunities available such that running would earn them far less money than other jobs available.  Plus, as much as I like running, I think a well educated young adult could better help the world by researching disease (like Adam RW), being a doctor, working as an engineer, or something like that, as opposed to being a professional runner.  There are people who would like to make a decent living from running, but there are also lots of artists and actors and performers who would like to make a decent living from their skills.  But simply being good at something or enjoying it does not mean society will support you monetarily.  And individuals can't do much to change it- support the things you enjoy and value (art shows, running meets, local theatre) and don't worry about the rest.

If anything, a good way to support runners is the buy shoes... since the article even states that running companies are where most the sponsorships come from. 

I simply look at running as a hobby for almost everyone.  If anyone can make money from it, good for them, but it is not a "normal" profession from society's view.

[dave rockness]

When I volunteered in inner-city Chicago (FCA), our goal was to keep the youth motivated in school and steer them toward trade school/college.  Many of them were awesome athletes- but we really de-emphasized their dreams of playing in the NBA- if they made it awesome, but if not, they could take advantage of the variety of awesome opportunities in our country- many that can make the world a better place.  I absolutely love sports, am friends with a handful of professional athletes, yet will always view them as hobbie/entertainment (the most exciting get paid).  Maybe it doesn't seem fair, but as my mother always said, life is never fair. 

I don't view it as selfish to participate in road races and not fight for the elite runners.  I'd be more apt to fight for better pay for school teachers, administrative assistants, and certain segments of social work...and that's just me.  Other people obviously have other noble causes as well- prison reform, domestic abuse, cure for cancer, etc.  If there were no road races, I'd probably just run for fun. 

[Jon Allen]

our goal was to keep the youth motivated in school and steer them toward trade school/college

Very wise, Dave.  We are lucky to live in a country where people can make a living through an education and hard work, versus only manual labor (and running is a manual labor where one physical problem can end your career).

I have wondered if this is because we do not know, we do not understand (my hope), or that we just plain outright do not care about anything else than our own performance, some food at the end of a race, and the raffle prize.

Based on Michelle's comments and my feelings, Sasha, I don't think it's that we don't care.  But there are many more important things to care about- I would rather donate money/time to helping people in 3rd world countries who live in real poverty and don't have any other options, versus donating money to American athletes who do have other options.  In my mind, running in America is about running and health, not about money.

[Superfly]

  "In my mind, running in America is about running and health, not about money."

Thats hits the nail on the head. Run for fun, health and personal achievement. But if it's money you want just work more and don't run at all.

[Dustin Ence]

Clyde and I were having this discussion last night on our run.  It turned out to be kind of funny.  We figured if we got paid to run based on our talent compared to say baseball.  Clyde, Logan Dave would probably be in the big leagues, maybe not all-stars but at least suiting up every game.  Steve Hooper and I would still be in the minor-leagues looking for our big break and Bill "Wildbull" Campbell would be solid in the senior league.  We all agreed we could probably quit our day jobs.

Back to this discussion we pretty much brought up all the points that Jon and Dallen made. In fact I feel a little offended that somebody would say since I don't financially support an OTQ guy I don't care.  I think as a fellow runner we probably care a lot more than the rest of the world.  At least when you mention the name Brett Gotcher I've heard of him before compared to about 99% of the rest of the population.

I wonder if the East Africans ever ponder on what they could do different to compete with the Americans in football, basketball, baseball, hockey.  

As far as helping those in poverty I just heard some great success stories which happened to come from Kenya about the LDS Perpetual Education Fund.  This senior missionary said that people in the program are not only doubling their income once they receive the additional schooling and skills, the increase in income is 6 to 7 times more.

I guess I would rather support a program like this than worry if my American OTQ guy has enough time and resources to be able to train full time.

[Steve P]

Dustin, I think I would be lucky to be a bat boy.

This post has been very interesting. Some great points have been made. And I pretty much agree that from a practical point of view these make sense. But part of me would love to see Americans do better at the Olympics and international track meets. One thing is that road racing and track & field are two very different things. Track and field is a spectator sport. Road racing is about the most difficult sport there is to watch. You can charge people to watch track and field but not road races.

So potential funding sources in track are sponsors and ticket sales. There are a few areas (such as Eugene) where track is considered an exciting sport. But I doubt ticket sales will generate enough revenue to support many athletes in the next 50 years. So that leaves sponsors. In road racing, you have sponsors, and it sounds like Sasha is suggesting race entries could help support athletes. Personally, I prefer low entry fees and don't want someone else deciding how to use my money. Another downside is that if runners are dependent on prize money for their income they will be tempted to abuse their bodies and to produce sub-par performances by racing too much.

So the main option I can think of is sponsors. A good example of this is the Hanson-Brooks Distance project. The post-collegiate runners work part time at the Hanson running stores and receive coaching from top coaches. They also have an alliance with Brooks shoes. They have already produced some great marathon performances (Brian Sell, Desiree Davila). I'd like to see this type of model expanded because it seems like a win-win for everyone involved.

[Sasha Pachev]

Steve:

This is exactly what I am talking about. If there are talented runners that are willing to live off $8K a year for a few years to see what they can do, how many more would do it for $16K a year? And it does not take a whole lot to make it happen. If there is a will, there is a way. One way or the other, we can make it happen. That is if we care to make it happen.

So far the most of the posts have suggested that we really do not care that much.  We still do not get it.

Some food for thought to help warm up the mind. Nations that have cared about music and art have eventually prospered to the point of not having to worry about daily bread that much. The ones that only cared about daily bread are stuck spending most of their time earning their daily bread. To a great extent this is true on the individual level as well. Music does little for your health, and art is no different. Yet such seemingly frivolous pursuits correlate highly with success in providing for yourself. And no, it is not from prosperity that there are resources to develop those. It is more of a matter of perspective, of how much you value those things.

Coincidence? I do not believe so. There is a fundamental law involved. Those who value reaching out for something higher than just what feeds them  are blessed with the power to make things happen. One of those things is the ability to feed themselves and others.

A consequence of that law - if you want to solve problems like illness or world hunger, you cannot do it with vaccine or food alone. There will never be enough. Besides, the solution is of temporary nature anyway as even if you find one, there is no man-made solution for the eventual death of everyone who was ever born. The only solution is to make man one with Christ, to help him feel the Spirit of God, to help him know that he is a child of God. He needs to feel something special. Some people will not know Christ by that name or may even refuse to recognize Him when given the explanation, but they will still know Him by the Spirit. Then, two things will happen to them. One, the most important, is that once the body is dead, they carries something of value out of this life. Two, not as important in God's eyes as the first, but nevertheless a testimony to us of God's power is that they will be given power to feed themselves, live a healthy life, and perform other things that they could not until they knew Christ.

When somebody recognizes a talent that God gave him and lays everything on the line to develop it to its full potential the power of God is going to be there in a great amount. God's power may not be recognized officially by the individual, but he is going to feel it. Those around him will feel it as well. This is really why some people care when world records are broken. They may not realize it, they may not acknowledge it, but this is really why. Think about it. What is special about running 26 miles in 2 hours when you complain about having to drive it in 30 minutes through a construction zone? Nothing really except what I said above.

[Jon Allen]

Sasha- if we did "get it", what would we do as individuals?  What would you suggest?

[Matthew Rowley]

It would be nice if the top runners make more.  I will agree with you, however, I don't think I or we can do any thing about it.  In order for the top runners to get paid more.  The general public would have to want to go watch them, pay to see them.  Or Watch them on the TV.  Running is not a spectator sport.  I was watching a track meet on TV and they were showing the 5K.  Of the 12 minutes the race took I think they only showed 4 minutes of it.  They showed the high jump, pole volt, they might of even when to a commersal.  This was very frustrating to me.   Yes there is a problem but what is your solution.

[Sasha Pachev]

Jon:

It might not seem like little things we can do will change a whole lot, but I believe little things do add up. The key is to change the mindset from I kind of care to I really care. Running fast matters to me not just kind of matters to me, and I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. What you do will be a result of how you think. Start somewhere that makes sense. If everyone of us says by me not doing drugs the cartels in Columbia will not feel the pain, so why bother, the cartels in Columbia will never feel the pain. Believe in the power of one and practice that belief to the best of your ability.

We can start by going to races that care to have a fast time. If a race does not care to have a fast time, do not go. Do not encourage others to go there.  If it does, go anyway even if does not have the food or the raffle.

Ask fast runners you know about their interactions with race directors and support the races where the interaction was positive.

Pass a quip or two. Wow, this 5 K was won in under 15:00, and there were 10 people under 16:00. This marathon had 5 people in 2:30 or faster. Hmm, this 5 K with 200 people was won in 18:30, and the field got chicked or at least deserved to be.  With 1000 people in the race the winner did not break 2:40, and there was nobody else under 2:50, what kind of marathon is that?

Sit out a race or two as a matter of principle or just to save some money and time.  Get a couple of friends and run a time trial instead. Runners are creatures of habit.  Once they get into a habit they go to their favorite race even if they do not 100% support the race organization. It was hard for me to do it this year, but I finally did break out of that habit. Since March I've been following the rule - if I know that a faster runner than me cannot get a comp I do not run even if I do have a way of getting a comp.

There are probably a number of other things that can be done that have not occurred to me but will occur to you once your mind becomes engaged. Feel free to share them.

[Steve P]

Maybe we should be encouraging our runners to become citizens of the country of Bahrain. That's how many of the Kenyan runners support themselves (along with taking on a Muslim name).

(I say that tongue-in-cheek, by the way.)

[Cutika99]

With 1000 people in the race the winner did not break 2:40, and there was nobody else under 2:50, what kind of marathon is that?

A kind that I can win!