Help with training

[Spencer Jensen]

I need help.  I'm running in the Wasatch Back Relay on June 18.  I'm up to 3 miles a day and I run 3 times a week.  My longest leg in the relay is 9 miles and my others are both 5.  I need to somehow get up to that distance.  Do I need to run more days a week, more distance per day and/or increase my weekly mileage more?  Any advice would be appreciated.  Oh and I'm running the STG Marathon in October.

[Dallen]

I would say move up to 5-6 days a week and try to get up to 4-5 miles per run with a single weekly long run in the 6-8 mile range. Do this gradually over the next few weeks.

[Fredrick Teichert]

Yikes! Dallen's advice is good. I can only guess that you're much younger than I am, so "getting in shape" could take a couple of weeks instead of a couple of years. Still, most physiologists recommend an increase in mileage of only 10% per week, so you're a little behind the 8 ball. You'll definitely benefit from everyday training in the Wasatch Back. Because of the way the race shapes up, you're always running tired so you need to get used to running without rest. Ideally you'd be doing your short runs (5 miles) every day with at least your long run distance (9 miles) once a week. That's 34 miles a week and you may not have enough time to increase your current mileage to that volume. You can push the 10% rule a little by dividing your workouts into two-a-days. Try running 3 miles everyday this week with at least 5 on Saturday. Rest on Sunday. If that doesn't kill you, you might be in better shape than your workouts indicate. Next week run 3 miles every morning, 2 miles every afternoon and do 7 on Saturday. The next week run 4 miles every morning, 2 miles in the afternoon and 9 on Saturday. Rest Sunday. On the fourth week, run 5 miles every morning, skip the afternoons (you're starting your "taper") but run at least 7, if not the full 9 on Saturday--depending on how you feel. You're now a week out and need to rest. Run 3 miles a day, eat a lot of carbs and hope that it's not hot, rainy, buggy or congested on race day. Good luck!

[Jeff Linger]

Junior in High School and running a marathon? That might be a bit too ambitious. That's a tough event on your body. Most people tend to recommend that you be a touch older before going on such a venture. The training also might conflict with your goal to "dominate in cross country", which would be going on simultaneous to the XC training.

[Jon Allen]

I have to agree with Jeff.  Personally, I wouldn't recommend marathons until at least 18 or 20 years old, but I know some people start much younger, and that is their own choice.  And I definitely agree that doing a marathon would completely ruin your cross country season- even the elite college runners don't do a marathon until after they are done with track/cross country (just look at Hall and Ritz).  The training is somewhat different, but especially the recovery after the marathon would make finishing your cc season difficult.  Plus then you would be battling your marathon training with what your coach for cross country wants you to do.

Just remember, you can do marathons until you are an old man.  But, once you are done with cross country in school, you can never do it again- and trust me when I say many of us old guys really wish we could relive those days.  I would encourage you to enjoy where you are at now with school, and do the open races (such as marathons) once you can't do cc anymore.

As for WBR, increase your miles and days/week as much as you can handle without injury.  You'll have fun with the race.

[jtshad]

I have to agree with Jon and Jeff.  Plus, try to get to get up to the marathon distance by October where you are starting from now (3M 3 times a week) would be a really challenge to do and stay healthy.  If the training did not cause problems trying to get there, I am afraid the race itself would not go too well for you.  Most coaches training programs recommend being a consistent runner with 25-30 miles a week base for a year before starting a marathon training program. 

So, I would echo what Jon said and about focusing on XC and increasing your mileage with this focus then move up to the marathon over the years after trying some more of the intermidate distances first (10K, half marathon).

As for WBR, that change in mileage is not that great but you do need to get up to some longer runs before the event in June.  The advice previously given is all good, just try to increase in a way that doesn't push too hard and listen to your body if you do start to feeling injuries coming on. 

The difference in mileage plus the challenge of the event will be tough, but it is fun.

[Sasha Pachev]

I ran my first marathon at the age of 17. My time was 3:05:51. My training was 40 miles a week with speed. I was trained for 3000 meters, not the marathon. My longest run was a half in 1:17:40. I ran a good half (1:23), and then death-marched my way to the finish. Did not feel any serious impact on the health or running performance later on.

So my thoughts are the young age alone does not make running a marathon dangerous. The lack of training does to a certain extent. I'd imaging trying to train for a top marathon performance at a young age would leave some negative consequences. So would trying to train for a top track performance at a young age before the body has matured. I can attest to that - my growth stalled between ages 13 and 14 from excessive track work. However, jogging 8-10 miles a day for a high school kid is very good for his health - I would site East African runners as an example.

If a young kid wants to experience the misery of the last 8 miles of a marathon when not properly trained, or the joy of jogging a marathon way below the potential, I do not think there is any harm. But do not do it more than once a year.

[Dallen]

I didn't notice that you were a HS runner. Be careful with the mileage buildup. Pay extra attention to any possibly developing injuries. A teenager going from a handful of miles a week to full marathon training is very likely to get injured. You don't want to ruin your senior year of CC by training too hard for a marathon. That said, if you do things intelligently you should have a good base of training this fall for your cross country season. Of course, running a marathon in the middle of cross country season will very likely ruin the rest of the season, since it takes a few weeks to recover.

I did a marathon at age 18 and it didn't go too well. I was in great shape and even did a 1:26 maraton on a very hilly course a month before the race. Unfortunately I learned at about mile 15 that a kid is just not meant to run that far. First half -about 1:30 - second half - about 2:20 of misery.

[Dallen]

I ran my first marathon at the age of 17. My time was 3:05:51. My training was 40 miles a week with speed. I was trained for 3000 meters, not the marathon. My longest run was a half in 1:17:40. I ran a good half (1:23), and then death-marched my way to the finish. Did not feel any serious impact on the health or running performance later on.

Sasha posted this while I was writing my very similar experience. This should be a good warning of what you are likely to face. I also agree that it could be fun and is not likely to do any long term harm.

[Jon Allen]

Sasha- that was post 1000 for you!

I don't think there is necessarily a certain age where you can start running marathons safely- it's all a risk of how much/hard you train, how hard you race, your physical maturity, etc.  Some may be ready at age 16, some not till later- I know James Barnes has done SGM since he was in high school.  Either way, you can do marathons for many, many years, but cross country for only a very few.

I think one of our main points, besides the age discussion, is that doing SGM at the start of October would affect Spencer's cross country season, due to training before hand and due to recovery afterwards.  I wouldn't want to run a marathon if I had raced a cross country 5k 2 days before, and I sure wouldn't want to try to compete in cross country regionals or state the week after the marathon.  At a minimum, Spencer, you should talk to your high school coach about this.  

My two cents.  We're probably giving you more advice than you want, since you were just asking about WBR training 

[Spencer Jensen]

Haha thanks guys for all the advice.  It is really helpful and I think I am going to forgo the marathon this year and focus on CC.  But any other training tips would be nice as this is my first year of CC haha.
-Spencer

[Dallen]

Probably a good idea to skip the marathon. I'd just work on gradually increasing your mileage over the summer.

[Jeff Linger]

But any other training tips would be nice as this is my first year of CC haha.

Use the summer to increase your mileage by simply running aerobic base miles. Try to get up to 6 days/week and around 40 miles/week by the end of the summer. If I understand it correctly, right now you're only doing 3 miles/day 3 days/week. Go 3/day 4 days next week, 5 days the week after, 6 days the week after that. At your age and at your mileage, your body should be able to handle this if you're running the miles easy. After that, add 1 mile to 1 run the next week, 2 runs the week after, 3 runs the week after that, etc until you get up to 6 days/week 6-7 miles/day average. That should take you about 22 weeks, theoretically. Which would actually put you into the CC season. If you're not feeling tired from the additional mileage, you can add to it. I think that given your age, and the low volume of your current mileage, you can handle increases beyond the 10% every 2-3 weeks routine. Just listen to your body, if you're tired or sore, back off a touch.

[jeff]

But remember a 16 year old couch potato has about the same VO2 max as me the 52 year old 1:48 half marathon runner around 42-46.  That is partially why kids can get in shape pretty fast.  That said injury is a begger problem than increasing fitness quickly. Careful with any speed work.

[Matthew Rowley]

As for your question about the Wasatch Back.  I would also say try to increase you mileage, the next few weeks.  Then don't race the relay just run it.  I think many of the other posts pretty good about how to increase your mileage.