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Jon,
thanks for you answer!

It's a few weeks later and things changed: I had an overstressed knee which I am recovering from still. So I'm even happy with consistent running.

I heard about BW and will try to carefully bring them into my training. But they won't be as hard as suggested. I will need more patience.

Martin

Martin,
I'm guessing you were wiped out a bit- adding 30 min at once to your long run is a big jump. I'd recommend 1-2 mile increases only.

I can't predict if you can break 3 hour marathon with your training, but if 8 hr training time per week is all you have, then you'll get the best result your able, so you can just be satisfied with that.

One thing that may help is adding some Big Workouts once you have your base. Search BW at the top of this page and you'll see lots of examples. Big Workouts really helped a lot of FRB-ers improve their marathon times.

Hello everyone,

being a member of this great community since the beginning of the year I took good advice and started running consistently (except a 3 week break because of influenza in March). I structure my training by time rather than by miles. So the last few weeks I ran 4 x 60 min., 2 x 90 min (~45 miles), everything felt great. Last week I added 30min. to my long run so that my training week is now: 60/60/90/rest/60/60/120.

Today was the 2nd long run >2 hours and like last week, I´m feeling wiped out after. My legs are sore, I´m tired with some kind of headache. Since I felt the same last week, this time I even paid more attention: I slept enough (7-8 hrs every night), I was well hydrated (took water before and during the run), the course was the same I am training daily (hilly, but managable), pace is even slower than in my easy runs during the week.

Is there such a big difference between 90 and 120 min? Short info: a few years ago I ran 4 marathons and did a lot of long runs. Only difference is that I didn´t run as many miles as I am doing now.

So I don´t know what to do about it: cutting back to what worked or going through this stadium?

Also I think I am at a peak regarding to the weekly training time (7.5 to 8 hours) which builds a good balance between family, training and work. If the question to the previous is to go though: is it possible to run sub 3 next year if I train consistently in that time range? My easy running pace is very slow, so I think what is 50 miles right now can get to 60 while my body is adapting training. So should I just be patient or do I have to run more?

All the best from Germany,
Martin

 

Jon,

to blame myself I read your answer only now. Sorry!

About long runs: I don´t think there is a magic number preparing for a marathon. It´s 20 miles in America and 35 km (~22 miles) in Europe. I like the idea to set time marks like 2 hours for regular long runs and 2,5 hours every other week to prepare for a marathon. I made the experience that everything longer than that made me very tired. But as you said, it could also be because of low mileage.

I´m a fan of doubles also. At the moment I´m at 5 x 60´ and 1 x 90´ per week. Over the summer, I decided to do a real base-building phase before adding any speed. You´re absolutly right about that! I will try to add 2-3 doubles, then I want to build my long run to 2 hours. Once I made it to about 8 hours of running per week, I should be close to 100 km (~60 miles) per week and ready to prepare with more tempo runs for a first marathon.

Long runs can indeed be overrated, but only somewhat. If you're training for a marathon, I would not want to start the race without a number of 18-20 mile runs completed. But overall, I think too many people try marathons without enough base mileage. Doing a 20 miler when you only run 30-40 miles a week is problematic. If you run 60-70 per week, then it's easier. I do agree that if long runs impact your ability to run more than 2 days later, you may not have been ready for that distance yet.

Once you build up to 60 minutes, 5 days per week plus some longer run, you can start adding other stuff. I'm a fan of 2 runs per day, a few days a week. Or adding in a little speedwork (not too much, build up slowly). Or a combo. Whatever you think works best for you- you'll have adequate base to try them. It's hard to get over 60 miles per week with only single runs for many people. But whatever changes you make, go slowly to avoid injury.

Any other questions?

Thank you, Jon!

It´s great how many fast runners are logged in here! Amazing your running accomplishments, you can be very proud!

In February, I planned exactly what you describe as general rule of thumb. What I´m not sure about is the length of my long runs, since I injured doing long marathonpace-runs (15, 20, 25k each 3 weeks apart) for my last marathon. I didn´t have enough mileage weekly to do that... Here I got some good advice from jtshad I am very thankful for! He suggested a linear buildup for my long runs (like 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 miles or so). These days I read a lot about George Malley (malmo) who says:

What my point about the long runs is that they are way overrated, are disproportionately done with respect to the overall mileage and training goals, and should not be done at the expense of the other aspects of your training.

He even says that 25% of weekly mileage is too much...I think running long runs of 20 miles definitly have a mental value, but I´m not sure if just doing more mileage and spread it over a whole week would be a better option (to stay healthy). Another idea of mine is to just do 1 or 2 very easy 20 milers just to build confidence and feeling for the distance. Others long runs would be in the 10-13 miles range. Any suggestions?

Second question about your rule of thumb: where do you go from there? Skip rest day and doing a short easy run? Doubles or longer single runs? A combination of both?

Much appreciate any advice,
Martin

Welcome, Martin. Your patient approach sounds like a good plan. Our general rule of thumb is to build up to 60 minutes a day, 5 days a week, plus a longer day, before adding speedwork. Consistency day after day and week after week, while being cautious for injuries, will yield the best results. Good luck!
Jon

Hey there,

I´m new here, just wanted to say a quick hello! I´m Martin from Germany, please consider that this isn´t my mother tongue. But I will do my best!

Also I´m very happy about any training advice! I ran my PB a few years ago (37:24 10k, 1:23 Hm, 3:17 M; before my wife gave birth to our great sons). Now I´m 36 and it will the last try to run "seriously" before I´m getting to old.  With my spare talent it is my big goal to run sub3 in a marathon in 2019. I believe that my marathon time is disatrous compared with my PB at shorter races. That´s why I want to run a lot of miles to give my cheetah legs (100m in 11,2s) enough time to build endurance. At the moment I´m trying to consistently run 35-40 miles a week and get to 50 miles the weeks before my marathon in April. I hope that will be enough for 3:30 (I think I will need a few marathons before I am ready for 2:59 next year). After I missed a fall marathon 2017 because of an achilles inflammation, I am very careful with my training. Consistency is key!

Have a nice day,

Martin

Sorry to get your hopes up my friend, but that's too fast for me. I'd suggest messaging
Sasha directly, he'd know.

I would talk to Sasha Pachev. He doesn't make multiple entries, but he does some fancy editing in his blog that allows him to account for different portions of his day. At least it looks fancy to me. I sometimes insert horizontal rules into my entries to distinguish between different daily doubles and the occasional daily triple. The horizontal rule can be inserted from the toolbar that is just above the text box for your entry. Hope at least some of that helps...happy running!