Fast Running Blog

story about devine's money troubles was on ksl news tonight. it said the winners weren't paid for 10 months...doesn't seem fair considering the time value of money. i know they have had problems but i wasn't aware it was this bad.  if the money doesn't exist to give the prize, it shouldn't be offered.

link from the website:
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=6093390

Sad.  We had this exact discussion last year when the winners and vendors weren't paid:
http://fastrunningblog.com/forum/index.php/topic,340.0.html

At this point, I'm not sure why any out of town elite runners (i.e. Kenyans, etc) would even want to run a Devine race- they don't get paid for almost a year and I'm sure spend hours trying to get their money.  Plus they lowered the prize amount.  Makes you appreciate races that cut checks right at the award ceremony.

Combine this with the high registration fee, and I, for one, will NEVER run any Devine race.  Never.  Especially after finding out the owner is nothing more than a fraud and a cheat: http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/02/24/Devine&Buzil.pdf

Sad, sad, sad.  It is too bad he has decided to invade and try to ruin the otherwise wonderful running industry.

I was going to Tevo that but didn't. I wanted to see if they interviewed any local guys we would know.

These people are still putting on SLC right? Is it the case that the marathon and half start together? I was hoping to be able to follow a bunch of Kenyans for the first 5 miles, bummer if none decided to show.

Several of my running friends and I vowed years ago that we would never run a race put on by Devine Racing.  Their attitude when they brought the Salt Lake Marathon to town and things I have heard from runners at different marathons put on by them only reinforce that decision.  I think we should all boycott the race, maybe then they would leave town.

I can't imagine that these guys will stay in business that much longer. Their progressive tardiness in payments suggests financial problems are worsening. They are sure to go bankrupt soon and a lot of runners are never going to see the paychecks they earned.

I feel kind of bad for these Kenyans who depend on their race winnings. Maybe the fed needs to bailout Devine racing, but limit their corporate pay. I kid, I kid

We want a change, but we do not want the race to leave town. All we would get is one fewer race.

Here's (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705296078,00.html) another article about Devine not paying the bills. He's sold the LA and Vegas marathons and hopefully will SL too.  The event is good for the city and participation grows every year (in the non-marathon events).  Maybe we can all throw in a few bucks and buy it from him.

How much will it cost?

Hmmm....since it loses money every year, I won't give them any more than I have in my wallet at the time (about $3).

I, like many of you, don't want to lose the race. It has moved around a bit on the schedule, but has usually fit in well with other Utah races and it gets runners training early. Devine has caused some problems for the race that will have to be dealt with even if the FRB buys it. You may have read that South Salt Lake wants him to pay $15,000 to run through their cozy little hamlet. He has agreed to pay (which he may/may not, can/cannot do) but this sets an ugly precedence that could cause this race and many others some serious problems. A race that covers 26 miles could pass through a bunch of hamlets and SSL's demand, if repeated, could make the cost of running a marathon prohibitive. I'm sure they felt they could make this demand because everybody is already all over Devine's case. His bad faith has now introduced a new problem to the running community. Municipalities should support and even promote races. It's good for citizens. It's good for business. It's good for PR. If Devine hadn't made so many missteps already he could probably fight and win a public relations battle with SSL, but when you don't pay your bills you lose your credibility. 

Not to be disagreeable with my relative Fred, but based on the article, South Salt Lake isn't demanding/charging for the race to run through their town, and they aren't making money off it.  They are charging $15k to cover the OT for the police officers who have to close roads, direct traffic, etc, for the race.  As a taxpayer I only think it is fair for the runners to pay for the police OT, rather than the non-running citizen-taxpayer.  I agree cities should support races and all other public functions by minimizing red tape, but I also think the events should be paid for by participants rather than the general public.  Seems fair to me.

So then do Boston/Chicago/New York and other big city marathons have their costs covered entirely or even anywhere near substantial level by runners? As large as their entry fees might seem, I still highly doubt that. What if the race directors asked their overtime to be covered by runners? What about the volunteers? We probably would not have one single race.

Runners depend on the grace of the community to have their races. The amount of grace is obviously in proportion to how the community values running. If we want more races, if we want those races to have  higher quality, we need to improve the perception of our sport. The best way to do it, in my opinion, is to get your family, friends, and even casual acquaintances to run, and not just to jog but to set a specific fitness goal. Running is best appreciated when performed.

I don't know if they pay for the cops, but these big city marathons bring huge money to these cities. Chicago probably gets 15000-20000 out of town runners who come and drop huge amounts of money in the city during their stay. The city/county/state take 11% sales tax off of all that. It's a lot of money that cound pay for the police overtime. Additionally the city gets tons of free tourism media attention.

On the other hand nobody is going to spend any money in south salt lake during the marathon weekend. It's a pure loss for them.

what about mad greek? or the wal-mart just off van winkle? those are tourist gold mines, imo.

I watched a documentary a while back about the guy who founded the New York Marathon. It mentioned that at first NYC did not charge the race, but eventually made the permitting very expensive. The NYC Marathon was barely just floating by, or in the red, well into the 1990s. Now it does okay, I think, but it is better-managed too (the founder was kind of a nut). I do believe that the title sponsor is a HUGE factor in whether a race is in the red or in the black, as they give tons of $$ to the race. ING for NY, La Salle for Chicago...even TOU has NordicTrack. Who is SLC's title sponsor? Exactly, nobody.

By the way, the documentary I referenced above is called, "Run for your Life." It's very interesting.

You could probably say the same for some of the Chicago suburbs that the marathon runs through. And, I highly doubt the cities thought about the possible tax revenue years later when those early marathons got started. Somebody more familiar with the history of major marathons could possibly enlighten us.

Actually, the entire Chicago course remains within the city limits. It's a big city.

I don't know that much major marathon history, but if you look around you will notice that essentially every major city has one. The good/big ones mostly started in the 70's and probably didn't become treu profit makers until the running boom of the last 8-10 years.

On side note. As far as I know, no city hosts more than one large quality marathon. The locals tend to pick a race and get behind it. That makes it tough for the others to succeed. Despite the recent emergence of a larger Salt Lake Marathon, I think the city's true marathon is Des News. If one of the other newcomers ever makes it to the next level, Des News will suffer.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=6130297  More news. 

Des News is big for the 10k, but I think the marathon is shrinking- last year had the fewest finishers in 10 years, with only 519 runners (down about 100 over the past 8 years).  Ogden has 1534, SLC has 1243, TOU has 1713, but the definite winner is St. George with 5000+.  In other words, a bunch of fairly small marathons, with one medium sized one.  Personally, I like the big selection- Ogden or SLC in the spring, TOU or St. George in the fall, plus a smatering of others like Des News, Utah Valley, Park City.  40,000 people in one marathon just sounds too big for me (and I have run Bolder Boulder 10k many times, which has 50,000 runners).

i will always be a fan of Des News because a) it's brutal and i like to try and conquer it (never have), b) it's small. it's fun to run in super small, nobody-wants-to-run-it races sometimes, and c) it was my very first marathon...oh the nostalgia.
but, it is a hard race and utah has more marathon options now, which may be why it is shrinking.

i read that article on ksl today too. i am very concerned now about how this race is going to end up. people are saying the police have boycotted providing traffic control? well if that is true, this is going to be one dangerous and chaotic race. SLC marathon frenzy! angry citizens hitting runners with their cars because nobody is there to stop them! no medical help! and bounced checks at the finish line!

I think the bigger issue is that they can't have the race without police support - they won't get the license to run the race (which from what I read hasn't been applied for yet?).   I think SLC will have to cave in, since there are so many people who have already reserved hotels, etc. I don't think they will risk alienating these people regardless of how awful Devine racing is.  They have had bounced checks - or no checks - for years with ALL of their marathons. 

I may be a little hard on South Salt Lake because of the way they kept trying to annex our section of Salt Lake when I still lived in the city and because I had to deal with them when I ran our Little League program and the Booster's Club at Granite High. Even though one of my friends was the mayor this smacks of their typical "last minute land grabs"... still, my point is that a city benefits from a marathon in many ways: it attracts spectators (depending on their support for it) who all want to eat at Ambers or go to the Cineplex afterwards; it exposes citizens to running and may help them get involved in the sport; it gives citizens the opportunity to participate both as runners and volunteers; and it can foster good PR and business opportunities for government and local enterprises. Apparently SSL thinks the benefits to the community are not worth taxpayer money. That's what I worry about. If Holladay, Murray, the county, and Salt Lake City all did what SSL proposes,  you're up to $100,000 just for traffic control. Race directors aren't going to put on races if they can't make money and we (runners) won't have any races to run. Neither will the fine citizens of South Salt Lake.
BTW-- I was not much of a runner when I saw a couple of Kenyans scream past my Millcreek home one April morning seven years ago. But after that first Salt Lake Marathon, I decided I could be.

I've been having multiple dreams about my race on Saturday. A recurrent theme has been having to dodge cars while racing! In one dream, the route was changed at the last moment to go through an office building. To begin with people were pushing the doors open to aid the runners behind them. Then someone slammed a door in my face. After that it was chaos. We had to leave the building through the lobby, but we had to walk to maintain proper decorum (the course description given to us at the start said so) then cross a busy street (which had the TRAX on it). The finish of that race ended up being pretty exciting...I got sixth I think, but I had a lead with about 800meters to go.

oh my goodness, you just made water come out of my nose!  I like the fact that in your dream a bunch of sweaty runners care a hoot about "proper decorum" -- I mean come on, you are talking about people that for the most part incorporate talk about their bathroom escapades like some people talk about their recent vacations.

james - that may be one of the best race nightmares i have heard in awhile. and maybe not too far off...
ahhh, can't wait for saturday!

I'm going to write about the entire dream on my blog I think.