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Title: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: James Moore on March 22, 2009, 10:09:57 pm One of my goals for my next marathon is to get better at taking on fuel. I'm going to start trying to eat something on my long runs. Does anyone have any suggestions of what to eat, where to get it, how often, how much. I really have no idea, so anyone who has had any kind of success could help me.
Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Jon Allen on March 22, 2009, 10:47:20 pm There is always the old reliable gu's or shot blox. I prefer something cheaper- I'll sometimes take a granola bar or some fruit snacks to eat half way through a long run. Nothing like some gummi bears, either. Stuff that gives you some energy but is easy to digest.
Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: allie on March 23, 2009, 07:20:48 am jon, don't forget about danish and brownies. :)
i can only handle two things - gu (vanilla flavored only) and bananas. anything else i have tried has brought on stomach troubles. everyone is different, but for me, on the "how often" part, i eat a banana before the run and if i do eat a gu it's usually around mile 17. but i have heard of people taking in a gu every 3-4 miles. to me that seems excessive, but it all depends on what you need to sustain your energy levels. i have also had success with the sports drink cytomax. Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Paul Petersen on March 23, 2009, 07:54:08 am Bananas are good, Gu is good (I actually prefer Honey Stinger). I also like dried papaya and raisins. During a marathon, I may take food around Mile 10 and then again around Mile 18-20. If it's hot I'll take Gatorade at every aid station, which has good calories, if if it's cool out, I'll alternate water and gatorade.
Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Jon Allen on March 23, 2009, 08:21:43 am Quote jon, don't forget about danish and brownies. That's for the post-run recovery. Along with the Nestle Quik. Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Neil Price on March 23, 2009, 10:00:56 am Stay away from chocolate pudding. I won't make that mistake again! :P
Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: allie on March 23, 2009, 10:46:38 am Stay away from chocolate pudding. I won't make that mistake again! :P yikes. i don't want to know. Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Jose Jimenez on March 23, 2009, 12:42:13 pm A couple of wheat pancakes with Maple Syrup and Gatorade about 45 mins before you run. I also took a Hammer Gel halfway through the run. I thought this was going to kill me but I actually felt great. I kept having problems with bonking too early and I think it's because I probably don't have enough fuel in me. And, yes, stay away from chocolate pudding. And whatever you do, please do not go for the Orange Burst Gu. That stuff is toxic.
Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: jtshad on March 23, 2009, 01:13:36 pm And whatever you do, please do not go for the Orange Burst Gu. That stuff is toxic. I really like the Orange Burst Gu (I have a hard time with the vanilla, sorry Allie!). I have some of the new PowerBar Gel Blasts which are good but dense and would be hard to each while running. For marathons, I take fuel and hydration early to stay ahead of the bonk and monitor the need later on based on feel and pace. I will take a gel about 7M and then again about 14-15M and then see what I need from there (I have actually eaten as many as 6 gels when I was really crashing!!). Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Sasha Pachev on March 23, 2009, 04:27:06 pm James:
Be patient. Wait for your body to learn to store enough glycogen and absorb whatever you can get at aid stations well enough to race the whole distance. It takes time, but it eventually happens. When you have glycogen in the leg muscles you are racing. When you don't you are jogging. When you take stuff in during the run you up the blood sugar, but no significant amount of glycogen is added to your legs. You'd have to eat a meal and rest for a while for it to happen. Therefore, Gu/Powerade/Shots improve your jogging speed, which could be worth money in a race like Ogden/TOU, but if you start jogging at any point, unless you are a 2:12 or faster guy, you are not going to the Trials. Therefore, if you want to race the whole way the focus should be on loading your legs with glycogen and learning to use it sparingly at fast speeds. The best thing you can do in your training is 10-15 mile tempo in the middle of your long run. Healthy diet and good sleep are also important. Very important to reduce stress one week out before the race, otherwise glycogen storage does not happen during the taper. Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: James Moore on March 23, 2009, 04:44:48 pm Well thanks for your comments. I'm going to experiment I guess and see what works. And Sasha, I really appreciate the training advice. How often do you recommend doing these tempo runs in long runs?
Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Sasha Pachev on March 23, 2009, 04:56:23 pm Every long run if you can handle it.
Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Burt McCumber on March 24, 2009, 06:43:36 pm When you take a Gu or a Hammer Gel, do you down the whole thing right away? Do you just nibble away at it? Do you take it right before you get to an aid station so you can wash it down with Gatorade or water? There are no instructions on the package. So for me it's like, take this, everyone's doing it.
Do you elite runners ever stop to take a quick drink? I see lots of people stop, and I keep going. Then before I know it, they pass me up. I'm afraid if I stop I won't be able to get going again. That's probably because I haven't built up glycogen levels in my legs, too, huh? Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Dallen on March 24, 2009, 07:03:07 pm When you take a Gu or a Hammer Gel, do you down the whole thing right away? Do you just nibble away at it? Do you take it right before you get to an aid station so you can wash it down with Gatorade or water? There are no instructions on the package. So for me it's like, take this, everyone's doing it. Do you elite runners ever stop to take a quick drink? I see lots of people stop, and I keep going. Then before I know it, they pass me up. I'm afraid if I stop I won't be able to get going again. That's probably because I haven't built up glycogen levels in my legs, too, huh? I try to get the whole gel down before an aid station so I can wash it down, otherwise it lingers in the mouth. For me it takes a few minutes to get one down at race pace. Some people might be able to take it in one big gulp, but I can't. A for drinking, most faster people tend to try to drink while running. It's hard to do and I will get water up my nose at least once in a marathon. You will probably only lose about a minute if you stop to drink a few times. It might be worth it if you have a minute to spare. Many people lose many minutes due to dehydration. By the way, your posted high school mile PR is a few seconds faster than mine, so I have faith that you can run a pretty fast marathon if you work on it. Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Paul Petersen on March 24, 2009, 07:38:30 pm When you take a Gu or a Hammer Gel, do you down the whole thing right away? Do you just nibble away at it? Do you take it right before you get to an aid station so you can wash it down with Gatorade or water? There are no instructions on the package. So for me it's like, take this, everyone's doing it. Do you elite runners ever stop to take a quick drink? I see lots of people stop, and I keep going. Then before I know it, they pass me up. I'm afraid if I stop I won't be able to get going again. That's probably because I haven't built up glycogen levels in my legs, too, huh? Usually I nibble on the gel, but I've done it both ways. I always wash down gels with water, otherwise it's a sugar overload, and can cause me stomach problems. I have stopped and walk through aid stations before. I think at Ogden in 2005 I walked through most of them because I was doing the Grand Slam that year and wanted to recover well (it worked). It's usually worth the extra hydration, although I've gotten better at getting quality drinks on the run without slowing down much, so haven't done it much is recent years. Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Rhett on March 27, 2009, 02:03:56 pm I'm a vanilla Gu guy and most people think I'm crazy, but I take one every 4 miles during a marathon. I mainly stick with water cause the Gatorade starts to get to me after a while.
Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Jeff Linger on March 27, 2009, 02:19:31 pm Orange Burst for me. Really, 1 every 4 miles? The recommendation is every 45 minutes. Does this mean you're targetting a about 4:52:30 for Boston? Maybe its not the gatoraide that gets to you so much as the combination of Gu/Gatoraide overdose? ::)
Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Rhett on March 27, 2009, 02:53:30 pm Orange Burst for me. Really, 1 every 4 miles? The recommendation is every 45 minutes. Does this mean you're targetting a about 4:52:30 for Boston? Maybe its not the gatoraide that gets to you so much as the combination of Gu/Gatoraide overdose? ::) Actually I'm a sub 3 marathoner (just barely) I just like to keep the tanks full.Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: David S on March 27, 2009, 03:16:25 pm I have not heard of every 45 minutes before. The rule of thumb in our running club is every 4 - 5 miles, and one about 15 minutes before the race. That means having 5 or 6 on you. In the grand scheme of things, we are only talking about 500 - 600 calories over a 26 mile race. Not really much when you think about it. What ever one does, it needs to be vetted out over a couple of long runs to see what works and what doesn't. Also, make sure you find out what the race is handing out for its sports drink and try it before hand. Don't introduce anyting - ANYTHING - new on race day. Not even something as trivial as a shirt, socks, underwear, etc., don't even think about it. BTW - for me, Accelrade Gels are the best tasting and easiest to go down, and they have some protein in them. The only downside is that the packages are somewhat bigger than competing brands.
As for carbo loading - this method has gotten a lot of attention in our club. Those who have tried it - including me - have had good results. One note is that the 3 minutes of intense exercise does not have to be running - I did mine on a stationary bike. Again, it should be tried out before a long run first. Excellent synopsis here: http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0974.htm (http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0974.htm) Full study here: http://www.unm.edu/~rrobergs/RapidCHOLoading.pdf Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Rhett on March 27, 2009, 03:38:56 pm I have not heard of every 45 minutes before. The rule of thumb in our running club is every 4 - 5 miles, and one about 15 minutes before the race. That means having 5 or 6 on you. In the grand scheme of things, we are only talking about 500 - 600 calories over a 26 mile race. Not really much when you think about it. What ever one does, it needs to be vetted out over a couple of long runs to see what works and what doesn't. Also, make sure you find out what the race is handing out for its sports drink and try it before hand. Don't introduce anyting - ANYTHING - new on race day. Not even something as trivial as a shirt, socks, underwear, etc., don't even think about it. BTW - for me, Accelrade Gels are the best tasting and easiest to go down, and they have some protein in them. The only downside is that the packages are somewhat bigger than competing brands. As for carbo loading - this method has gotten a lot of attention in our club. Those who have tried it - including me - have had good results. One note is that the 3 minutes of intense exercise does not have to be running - I did mine on a stationary bike. Again, it should be tried out before a long run first. Excellent synopsis here: http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0974.htm (http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0974.htm) Full study here: http://www.unm.edu/~rrobergs/RapidCHOLoading.pdf David, I'm a huge fan of the Aussie Carb Loading Plan. I have gotten fantastic results with it. As a matter of fact I am doing it today as tomorrow will be a 23 mile Boston Simulation run for me. I'm doing everything just like I will do on race day today and tomorrow. I do my 3 minutes running and have not experienced any tired leg problems from it in the past. Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: dave rockness on March 27, 2009, 03:56:07 pm I do well with the chocolate flavored gu. One at 6 miles, 10 miles, 16 miles, and 20. For me, I'd take them 2-minutes before hitting the water table. Also, I take gatorade at every station, except after a gu (water). This past marathon I literally stopped at each station to get the liquids down, kept my eye on a runner near me, and caught back up with them once everything was down. The time stopped was more than made up for by keeping fully hydrated. My fastest mile was mile 26 and I got my bq.
Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Jeff Linger on March 27, 2009, 11:55:27 pm Every 45 minutes is the 'manufacture's recommendation' as it were. I was joking, of course, about the 4:52:30. I heard you were a sub 3er. I just wish I could work Boston with you, but I'm in corral 5. I usually take 1 5 minutes before the race starts and then 1 every 6 miles. Of course, I did this on my only attempt at the marathon a year ago. During training I've significantly cut back on my Gu intake. No need to test it, I know I do well with it. I haven't done a single training run yet where I've taken more than 1. I'll still stick to the 1 before 1 every 6 rule though.
Dave, I like you're idea of actually stopping at water stations and picking a runner to catch back up to. Out of curiosity, how long do you usually take to catch back up? Is it a get right at it and then back to pace plan, or a gradual catch back up plan? Burt, when I take my Gu's I usually take them in parts. If I down the whole thing at once I find I'm not able to maintain a steady oxygen intake. As such, I usually take my Gu's in 3-4 'bites' as it were. Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: dave rockness on March 28, 2009, 02:28:27 pm Jeff, I just get right back with them. I find folks near my pace slow down a little bit anyway and get maybe half the liquid I do. The short little spurts didn't really hurt me at all (however, I was running a very flat marathon, so my legs were never really thrashed and this actually gave me some enjoyable variety).
Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Jeff Linger on March 28, 2009, 03:44:40 pm Jeff, I just get right back with them. I find folks near my pace slow down a little bit anyway and get maybe half the liquid I do. The short little spurts didn't really hurt me at all (however, I was running a very flat marathon, so my legs were never really thrashed and this actually gave me some enjoyable variety). So, what do you think about this approach to Boston? Also, I've heard it said that a good recommendation is to pick the left side of the road for water/gatoraide or whatever they're serving because most of the runners have a tendancy to go for the right side. The advice I heard was to pick the left and stay to the left. Additionally, what do people have to say about the crowds (runners, not spectators) effecting one's ability to get onto pace. Am I understanding this corral system correctly? They send out the elites. About an hour later they start with Wave I and send people out in corrals? 1000 people to a corral? Do they line all the Wave I corrals up and start them out together, or is there a small break between each corral within each wave? Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Jon Allen on March 28, 2009, 04:42:17 pm The women elite start ~30 minutes before everyone else. But the men elite and everyone else start at the same time (unless they made some major changes I never heard about).
I don't know about left versus right tables, but I do know don't go to the first table- that is where the backup is. Go to one of the later tables. Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: seesuerun on March 28, 2009, 09:09:21 pm I'm coming in the conversation too late. I like the sports jelly beans orange are the best. Stay away from orange shot blocks though! Has any one else had those, those are nasty! The beans are easy to carry and I like to just suck on them at times. Cherry or the black cherry shot blocks are great. I like the gu's too. I find that one 15 min before a race (not just a run) helps me a little. Probably just a mind thing though.
Title: Re: Gu or whatever during a marathon Post by: Rhett on March 28, 2009, 09:33:04 pm So, what do you think about this approach to Boston? Also, I've heard it said that a good recommendation is to pick the left side of the road for water/gatoraide or whatever they're serving because most of the runners have a tendancy to go for the right side. The advice I heard was to pick the left and stay to the left. Additionally, what do people have to say about the crowds (runners, not spectators) effecting one's ability to get onto pace. Am I understanding this corral system correctly? They send out the elites. About an hour later they start with Wave I and send people out in corrals? 1000 people to a corral? Do they line all the Wave I corrals up and start them out together, or is there a small break between each corral within each wave? Yes the elite women start 30 mins. before everone else then we all start together. The elite men are in front then the 1000s in corral 1, 2000s in corral 2, etc. There is no gap between corrals and each corral is so packed that last year I wasn't able to get into my corral until after people started moving. I like to stay on the left as well, but not until I pass through the roundabout a few miles into the race where it is a bit shorter to be on the right. |